[NilsOlav]

Hi guys. I got a Behringer UCA202 recently, and at first I was amazed by how much better all my music sounded, but then I noticed it make some random static noises in my speakers and randomly began to delay sounds by as much as 1-2 seconds from when they should have played. Will getting a high-end DAC solve these problems? Here is one I am looking at.
 
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0078Q35PG/
 
I have no real price limit, but I'm not going to spend a ridiculous amount on a DAC unless it has some really amazing qualities. For one, I need some additional RCA inputs to hook up a sampler to my computer, so if there's one that has extra RCA inputs, that would be helpful.

 

[PleasantSounds]

[size=small]Chances are the noises you are hearing may not be the DAC’s fault, and getting a better DAC may not fix the issue.[/size]
 
[size=small]I would first make sure that the problem is not my computer. What you have described could as well be a result of your computer being too busy handling some other task, and “neglecting” the job of keeping your sound buffer full. Here’s a few things to try:[/size]
 

1. Increase buffer size in your media player
   
2. [size=11pt] [size=11pt]Make sure your device drivers are up to date[/size]
   [/size]
3. [size=11pt] [size=11pt]Run latency monitor (http://www.resplendence.com/latencymon) and figure out which processes may be interrupting your player[/size]
   [/size]
4. [size=11pt] [size=11pt]Stop non-essential processes – i.e. file indexing service is often the culprit[/size]
   [/size]

 

[NilsOlav]

  [size=small]Chances are the noises you are hearing may not be the DAC’s fault, and getting a better DAC may not fix the issue.[/size]
 
[size=small]I would first make sure that the problem is not my computer. What you have described could as well be a result of your computer being too busy handling some other task, and “neglecting” the job of keeping your sound buffer full. Here’s a few things to try:[/size]
 

1. Increase buffer size in your media player
   
2. [size=11pt] [size=11pt]Make sure your device drivers are up to date[/size]
   [/size]
3. [size=11pt] [size=11pt]Run latency monitor (http://www.resplendence.com/latencymon) and figure out which processes may be interrupting your player[/size]
   [/size]
4. [size=11pt] [size=11pt]Stop non-essential processes – i.e. file indexing service is often the culprit[/size]
   [/size]

Thanks for the info. I ran latency monitor, and indeed, I do have latency issues. That being said, the DAC I linked in my original post has whats called "asynchronous USB", and here is what that supposedly does:
 

http://www.audiophilleo.com/definitions.aspx?asynchronous%20USB
 
Apart from all the marketing hype, asynchronous USB transfer mode simply means that a "downstream" audio device, the Audiophilleo in this case, controls when the computer sends data through its USB interface and how much at a time. The Audiophilleo becomes the bus "master", and no longer has to rely upon noisy clocks generated by the computer or its USB interface logic. Products using synchronous or adaptive USB transfer are inherently "slaved" to the computer; clocking information has to be extracted from USB packet and frame timing signals, which are seldom accurate enough for high-end audio purposes.

Would this solve my problem? The quoted box is from a different product, but the one I posted claims to have asynchronous USB all in the same. If it would, I would be willing to buy it, because I've messed around with my CPU power management settings and other things, and still haven't fixed the latency problem and I'm very frustrated.

 

[NilsOlav]

The DAC I linked also has a "ground lift switch". I recall someone in another thread saying that static/pop noises with the Behringer UCA202 are caused by a "ground loop"...what is this switch, would it prevent that? Along with asynchronous USB, this seems like it might be able to solve the sound problems the UCA202 gave me.
 

 

[Roseval]

Async USB (or adaptive) is about the way the USB protocol is used.
Latency issues are about the system.
If a system is to high on latency it will simply not be able to feed the USB hub in time
Hence you get drop outs regardless of the USB protocol you are using.

 

[NilsOlav]

  Async USB (or adaptive) is about the way the USB protocol is used.
Latency issues are about the system.
If a system is to high on latency it will simply not be able to feed the USB hub in time
Hence you get drop outs regardless of the USB protocol you are using.

Well, I guess that won't solve my problems then. When I connect my speakers to my PC with my RCA-to-3.5mm cable, I get the not-so-good sound quality issues, and then if I instead connect my speakers via USB with the UCA202, I get the crackling and delay issues. If I leave the UCA202 plugged in for a few hours, I'll start to notice that every sound in every program on my computer is delayed by 1 second. After leaving it connected overnight, every sound was delayed by 2 seconds. Unplugging the UCA202 and plugging it back in resets this delay, which seems to accumulate over time. Not a problem when listening to music, but quite a problem when watching videos or playing games.
 
I've also noticed that I get far more crackling when I set my computer's sample rate to 48 kHz, and far less when set to 44.1 kHz. Not sure what that means. I got a blue screen of death twice now when I went to select 48 kHz, which read "BAD_POOL_HEADER".
 
Google told me to turn off any power saving things, such as Enhanced Intel Speedstep Technology. Tried that and caused my CPU to reach too high temperatures, so that won't work. I've got a high-end PC with lots of ventilation too. I'm at a loss at what I should do here, open to any suggestions.

 

[PleasantSounds]

Async USB (or even just a different DAC) may fix the accumulating delay issue, but I don't think it is going to solve the buffer underruns problem. This suspicion is confirmed by your observation that 48kHz setting gives you worse results than 44.1: in case of 48kHz your PC has to send more data in the same time interval, so any interruptions will be more exposed.
Another thing to try if you haven't done that yet is using different USB port and unplugging other USB devices, especially hard drives if you have any.

 

[NilsOlav]

  Async USB (or even just a different DAC) may fix the accumulating delay issue, but I don't think it is going to solve the buffer underruns problem. This suspicion is confirmed by your observation that 48kHz setting gives you worse results than 44.1: in case of 48kHz your PC has to send more data in the same time interval, so any interruptions will be more exposed.
Another thing to try if you haven't done that yet is using different USB port and unplugging other USB devices, especially hard drives if you have any.

Hmm, well I read a review on the amazon page for the Cambridge DAC I linked to that sounds like it could possibly solve my issue:
 

I installed it on a late model Intel/Win 7 box which had previously crackled using ASIO w/ Asus Zonar STX. The Cambridge displays no driver flakiness, crackling under ASIO, or other issues

 
Sounds like it might fix the exact problem I'm experiencing, and possibly solve the delay issue as well.

 

[PleasantSounds]

The DacMagic 100 is a much better DAC than the UCA202, and you won't be disappointed if you get it with the intent of further upgrading your sound. I'm just trying to caution you if you are hoping to solve the sound breakage issues by throwing money at it - that may not work.
I had similar issues with a $2000 DAC which is a pro grade unit with async USB, DSD, and other features. What solved it in my case was stopping the file indexing service and replacing virus checker with a less resource consuming one.

 

[NilsOlav]

  The DacMagic 100 is a much better DAC than the UCA202, and you won't be disappointed if you get it with the intent of further upgrading your sound. I'm just trying to caution you if you are hoping to solve the sound breakage issues by throwing money at it - that may not work.
I had similar issues with a $2000 DAC which is a pro grade unit with async USB, DSD, and other features. What solved it in my case was stopping the file indexing service and replacing virus checker with a less resource consuming one.

 
You make a good point. I'm going to try to get junk off my computer and things like that, but if none of it solves the problem within a week or so, I'll give the DacMagic 100 a try. Amazon has a pretty good return policy, so if it doesn't solve my issue I can send it back. I also noticed I still have Realtek drivers on my computer, could those be causing a problem like this by chance?

 

[castleofargh]

I would guess that each time there is a problem, something increases the buffer size as a way to get around the problems. I would think that the computer may be the cause of those problems in the first place, more than the DAC.
 
I would start by cleaning the computer as much as I can (format maybe?), then look at the software you use and the settings in it(did you try several players?). some let you set a buffer time, so that the computer can use that time to deal with whatever comes up.
about 48khz, why would you try that? are your files in 48khz?

 

[NilsOlav]

  I would guess that each time there is a problem, something increases the buffer size as a way to get around the problems. I would think that the computer may be the cause of those problems in the first place, more than the DAC.
 
I would start by cleaning the computer as much as I can (format maybe?), then look at the software you use and the settings in it(did you try several players?). some let you set a buffer time, so that the computer can use that time to deal with whatever comes up.
about 48khz, why would you try that? are your files in 48khz?

 
I did some cleaning up on my PC...really though, its a very high-end computer that I built myself, all solid parts, so I don't know what the problem coudl be. I've ran a latency monitor after cleaning stuff up, and I still get a warning saying I have latency issues that may affect real-time audio. I installed ASIO4ALL and have this panel up as shown below. Could changing any of these settings fix the delay problem and/or the random static/pop noises?
 

 
 
As for the 48kHz, well that is the highest it lets me go with the UCA202. I use my computer to watch movies and play games too, I read somewhere that 48kHz is the what the average DVD sound quality is at. When I plug in my speakers via the RCA-to-3.5mm, my computer lets me set the sound quality to as high as 24-bit/192kHz, which was good since I do have a few (massive) albums stored at that quality.
 
Would a better DAC let me select up to 24-bit/192kHz? I figured it was just because the UCA202 is very cheap that it only allows me up to 48kHz. I made a seperate thread asking about getting a new DAC:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/752085/looking-to-get-a-usb-dac-for-around-300
 
Researching the 3 DACs I listed, I found a lot of reviews claiming that these DACs will solve problems that cheaper DACs like the UCA202 have given me (the delay and the occasional random static/pops). I am not 100% set on buying a new DAC yet, I will try to mess around with ASIO4ALL...but if I can't get rid of both the random static and the delay, I think I will go with buying a new DAC.

 

[Roseval]

DPC latency is rather complex.
If you run Resplendence it will tell you which drivers are the culprits.
I had a pretty fast laptop with pretty good hardware but the drivers might simple make it unsuits for real time audio.
In my case only disabling the WiFi driver and the NVDIA driver resulted in a decent latency value.
Changing audio drivers won't help as the problem is one or more drivers hogging the bus.
A bit more: http://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/SW/Trouble/Latency.htm

 

[NilsOlav]

  DPC latency is rather complex.
If you run Resplendence it will tell you which drivers are the culprits.
I had a pretty fast laptop with pretty good hardware but the drivers might simple make it unsuits for real time audio.
In my case only disabling the WiFi driver and the NVDIA driver resulted in a decent latency value.
Changing audio drivers won't help as the problem is one or more drivers hogging the bus.
A bit more: http://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/SW/Trouble/Latency.htm

 
Yeah, my NVIDIA driver is at the top as far as causing latency. Ideally, I'd want to be able to play games on my computer with my audio system too, so disabling my NVIDIA driver is something I can't really do. The delay is of no issue when I'm listening to music in a media player, its specifically in games and movies that it becomes a problem since the visuals are out of sync with the sound. Is there really no way around this by buying a higher quality DAC? I feel like there has got to be some kind of technology out there that lets a USB connected device not be affected by the system's latency. I built myself a high-end computer specificaly for the purpose of being able to run a lot of stuff on it without slowing down. From the sound of it, I would need a...low-end computer with no drivers or anything on it to enjoy the high-end sound of DAC? That seems a bit counterintuitive. My computer excels in everything, except for USB audio, apparently.
 
Thanks for that link though, that site looks to be pretty informative, I will take a look at it.

 

[NilsOlav]

UPDATE: PROBLEM SOLVED!!! Thank you Roseval for that site you linked. I was reading through other things that could cause my problem, and it turned out that both the delay and random static issues were caused by the UCA202 being in the "same group" as multiple other USB devices on my computer (read this guide):
 
http://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/SW/Windows/Win7/USBDAC.htm
 
My computer has liked 10 USB ports on the motherboard, and 4 on the front end of the case. The 4 on the front end are in a separate "group" since they're case USB ports, so I plugged the UCA202 into the front end and all my other devices into my motherboard USB ports. Anyone else with this problem, try this! I also have ASIO4ALL installed, just in case that could be helping too.