[gopack87]

but I have some newbie questions. In order to have a balanced headphone rig, do you need a balanced cd player? I was thinking about doing a setup like this: Emotiva ERC-1>Music Hall 25.2 Dac> Little Dot Mk V2> Balanced Headphone. Would this be a good first time balanced rig? I know the ERC-1 has balanced outputs but if I was to consider a cheaper transport, can you do coaxial to a balanced dac>balanced amp?

 

[Necrolic]

A real balanced rig uses a balanced source.

However, what you're proposing is using a CDP through digital to a balanced DAC, which is pretty much exactly the same thing, as long as whatever is actually processing the sound is balanced, you're all set.

 

[gopack87]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Necrolic /img/forum/go_quote.gif A real balanced rig uses a balanced source. However, what you're proposing is using a CDP through digital to a balanced DAC, which is pretty much exactly the same thing, as long as whatever is actually processing the sound is balanced, you're all set.

great, thanks

 

[tim3320070]

Keep in mind the Music Hall DAC bypasses the tube when in balanced mode. I would go direct from the ERC (to start) to the amp as I bet there wouldn't be a big leap in SQ using the Music Hall over the ERC.
You want a fully balanced source with great SQ- try one of the Audio-gd fully balanced DAC's.

 

[gopack87]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tim3320070 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Keep in mind the Music Hall DAC bypasses the tube when in balanced mode. I would go direct from the ERC (to start) to the amp as I bet there wouldn't be a big leap in SQ using the Music Hall over the ERC. You want a fully balanced source with great SQ- try one of the Audio-gd fully balanced DAC's.

Thanks for the advice Tim. I've thought about getting an Audio-Gd dac for a couple months now but their site is a bear to sort through and I'm not really sure how to order one. (I guess you place the order through email?)

 

[SoupRKnowva]

yeah jsut send him an email, he usually responds pretty quickly, and is very easy to talk to, specailly considering the language barrier.

 

[tim3320070]

His site may seem a little less than professional but I assure you that Kingwa is the real deal and then some- the best experience I have had buying anything expensive (6 items so far). I am a real frugal guy and cannot stand throwing money at a brand name, that is why I buy from Audio-gd as the sound is amazing and the price is more than reasonable. Is that fan-boy enough for you?
I would go the new DAC he has coming out that will pair with the Roc (both balanced).

 

[Steve Eddy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gopack87 /img/forum/go_quote.gif but I have some newbie questions. In order to have a balanced headphone rig, do you need a balanced cd player?

There's not much point in a balanced source unless your amp's inputs are not only balanced, but differential.

The whole point of balanced interfaces is the rejection of common-mode noise. This can only occur if the input is differential, meaning that it only amplifies the difference between the two signal conductors. This is what rejects anything that's common to both lines.

Many so-called "balanced" amps are made using four bridged amplifier channels. This scheme does not give you a differential input and does not reject common-mode noise. Any common-mode noise is amplified along with the signal. And it's really misleading to call such amps "balanced." They should be called "bridged" instead.

The only advantage from a balanced source with regard to such amps is that the amp doesn't have to produce the inverted half of the signal.

se

 

[tosehee]

Good se is far better than compromised balanced setup. I would adise not to unless you already made up your mind.

Balanced is a lot more costly and not that great compared to SE unless properly implemented

 

[gopack87]

I think after the great advice I've received in this thread, I'm going with the new Audio-Gd balanced dac to go with the balanced Roc amp. Any suggestions for a good cd player to complete my rig?

 

[Eagle Eye]

That is exactly what I did. My ROC is being shipped tuesday I think and he will have the what I call ROC DAC mid march and he will give those who purchased a ROC a discount on the DAC. Already put the money up to buy it as soon as it is available. Can't wait to hear the balanced HD 650 through this set up. Excited for sure!

 

[wavoman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koyaan I. Sqatsi /img/forum/go_quote.gif There's not much point in a balanced source unless your amp's inputs are not only balanced, but differential. The whole point of balanced interfaces is the rejection of common-mode noise. This can only occur if the input is differential, meaning that it only amplifies the difference between the two signal conductors. This is what rejects anything that's common to both lines. Many so-called "balanced" amps are made using four bridged amplifier channels. This scheme does not give you a differential input and does not reject common-mode noise. Any common-mode noise is amplified along with the signal. And it's really misleading to call such amps "balanced." They should be called "bridged" instead. The only advantage from a balanced source with regard to such amps is that the amp doesn't have to produce the inverted half of the signal. se

Is there more to this? Help me out. I agree totally that balanced connection thoughout the signal chain was designed for noise rejection (via cancellation), and therefore allowed very long cable runs. Pro studios use it for this reason. (XLR connectors snap in and hold better too, although some studios use other balanced connectors, so that's a slightly different issue).

However, the move to "balanced" headphones was to eliminate 3-wire common-ground cabling to the two speakers. The thinking being, why not wire headphones the way you wire speakers: + and - to each speaker. This is a potential improvement in the way the drivers perform -- i.e, SQ, not just noise rejection. Could have been done with a four-wire connector (and some models use this), but two XLRs was more like balanced electronics discussed above, so why not go with this.

So a 4-channel "balanced" HP amp, even one that takes in a s.e. signal to amplify, is the ticket for driving balanced phones.

Am I all wet here? I thought I learned this all from the HeadRoom guys, who got the balaned HP bandwagon really rolling, no?

 

[Steve Eddy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wavoman /img/forum/go_quote.gif However, the move to "balanced" headphones was to eliminate 3-wire common-ground cabling to the two speakers. The thinking being, why not wire headphones the way you wire speakers: + and - to each speaker.

Most power amps do have a common ground between channels. What's different with 3 wire headphone cabling is that the ground is common from at least the headphone jack, through the TRS connector, and then finally to the amplifier's ground.

The real problem isn't the common ground, it's the common contact resistance of a TRS headphone connection. This can be high enough to cause significant crosstalk. However it could be ameliorated by simply wiring up headphones like speakers are wired up, using four separate contacts with the ground being common only at a single point inside the amplifier.

Quote:

This is a potential improvement in the way the drivers perform -- i.e, SQ, not just noise rejection.

All the speaker knows is what it sees at its two terminals. It doesn't care if it's driven by a balanced or unbalanced source. The both look the same as far as the speaker's concerned, other than any difference in output impedance between the two.

Quote:

Could have been done with a four-wire connector (and some models use this), but two XLRs was more like balanced electronics discussed above, so why not go with this.

Because two XLRs on a headphone is just absolutely dumb in my opinion. One is bad enough unless it's a mini XLR. But two full size XLRs?

Quote:

Am I all wet here? I thought I learned this all from the HeadRoom guys, who got the balaned HP bandwagon really rolling, no?

What the guys at Headroom did was misrepresent the term "balanced."

What they're really talking about is what's called "bridging" in the rest of the audio world. This is where you take two amplifier channels and bridge them together to make a single channel.

se