[scratchmassive]

Ok this time I want to share my experience with Legacy 4 and Linsoul. This have to be said to be used just as a warning to all of you who are considering to buy a Thieaudio product.
I didn't want to say anything earlier, I've waited for the resolution to this issue and now finally I have to say my piece.

Lest start from the beginning. I've ordered Legacy 4 custom shell from Linsoul on 6th of January about few day after it got available. Even though I didn't hear uiem first I was confident I would like the tuning based on BGGARs review and also few others. I wanted to try CIEM and L4 was the priced ok and Linsoul stood to me as a more or less reputable seller with the track of taking care of thier buyers. So I figured why not let's see what this L4 can do and later I'll probably invest in Monarch most probably.

25 days passed I received them. First of all, I'm not sure but nobody here or anywhere else mentioned this, but the smell of L4 box is awful. I cannot describe it like some kind of chemical I cannot name it. I'm ordering lots of things from China and Ali Express and nothing ever smelled as bad as L4 no matter how cheap the item was. I thought it doesn't matter iems are important I can always throw away the box.

Fast forward 3 days into using them and A-B with some of my other iems I came to a conclusion that L4 is the worst iem I ever heard in my life. Especially when directly compared to the cheapest and nastiest earbuds I have. Just to put it in perspective Blon 05 is realy badly tuned iem I don't like it at all, but it sounds like a TOTL compared to L4.

Main problem was in low treble area, there was so much energy there it made them sound very grainy, hollow, harsh... I cannot find the right words right now to describe what I heard. Since I'm over 40 now I'm not sensitive to high mids or treble at all but that was way too much. Also apparently I have very good hearing according to my audiologist based on the hearing test I took when I got ear impressions done.

After 3 days I contacted Linsoul about it saying that the tuning is not right among other things... Eventually we agreed that I send my L4 back to them and they will test it. And if I'm right they will refund me 65%....

Again fast forward we exchanged several e-mails, from my side long emails explaining everything into detail and even sending them BGGAR and Crin graphs just to prove them that tuning is not the same. They previously have send me thier graph of my set saying there is nothing wrong with my set other than "slight difference" in the graphs. What? Slight difference?........ Further down you can check the graphs I'm talking about.

Basically thier response was:
Earphones work, our engineers have said there is nothing wrong.... We don't allow refunds on CIEMs, they even refused my suggestion to reshell them into UIEM and re-tune them right so I could use them or maybe sell them if I wanted to, they refused. But they allow free reshelling ciems if the fit is not good. Fit was good in my case just tuning definetliy didn't match reviews and graphs.

They refused to do anything for me in this case. It was like I'm talking with the wall. They told me they will send L4 back to me after I replied with if they do L4 is going straight to garbage. Which is honest truth I cannot do anything with them. 2 weeks have passed of course they didn't send it back.

This is Linsoul customer service my friends. Representative told me that he informed his colleagues about my issue and that this is company policy.... I don't know who actually was informed, or does Lilian knows.

May I just add after all these countless e-mails I was extremely polite, respectful and understanding that mistakes can happen. I was just asking that we together find a good solution for both sides. They refused to do anything for me even after I told them I had previously reviewed positively some of thier other gear here on Head-fi and other audiophile groups. After I told them I'm still interested to buy Monarch in 2-3 months as soon as I save enough money. And what ever I get from this L4 deal would help me.... In between the lines thier response was basically thank you for your support now **** off we are busy we have enough orders, we don't need your pittifull business 1-2 iem per year. This last sentence yes I'm exaggerating, but when you look at it objetivly I'm not wrong here.

I'm down for the cost of iems, custom charge, impressions cost, import tax cost (20%europe), and the cost of shipping L4 back to them.

You know when I will order again from Linsoul? NEVER. I wanted to settle down with Monarch after one long conversation with one audiophile colleague, he convinced me Monarch is worth getting... Sorry buddy that is not happening anymore. I'll invest into real TOTL like UM, 64 Audio, EE... Or whatever, Linsoul never again.

These are the graphs I mentioned earlier. Tell me please who is crazy here?

I was really interested in L4 for my next purchase so this is sad to hear.

Maybe it's because I'm fairly new to FR graphs, but I'm not sure I see what difference you are referring to - the rough shape seems to be consistent across all the graphs. But it's hard to tell as the units on the axes in each graph don't seem to be labelled well or similarly.

I suppose if it sounds messed up to you, then doesn't matter what the graphs say. Did you give it enough "burn in" or adjustment time? I had a KZ BA10 that I initially hated the sound of, in fact I would describe it as you did, but now it is one of my favorites. I'm not claiming any "burn in" effect, but I can't explain why the sound changed so much better for me.

 

[progdvd]

I was really interested in L4 for my next purchase so this is sad to hear.

Maybe it's because I'm fairly new to FR graphs, but I'm not sure I see what difference you are referring to - the rough shape seems to be consistent across all the graphs. But it's hard to tell as the units on the axes in each graph don't seem to be labelled well or similarly.

I suppose if it sounds messed up to you, then doesn't matter what the graphs say. Did you give it enough "burn in" or adjustment time? I had a KZ BA10 that I initially hated the sound of, in fact I would describe it as you did, but now it is one of my favorites. I'm not claiming any "burn in" effect, but I can't explain why the sound changed so much better for me.

No burn in can improve / decreese that 5-8k bump. Crin and Bggar graphs are fairly similar, but Linsouls black graph is a different story.

 

[Fat Larry]

I was really interested in L4 for my next purchase so this is sad to hear.

Maybe it's because I'm fairly new to FR graphs, but I'm not sure I see what difference you are referring to - the rough shape seems to be consistent across all the graphs. But it's hard to tell as the units on the axes in each graph don't seem to be labelled well or similarly.

I suppose if it sounds messed up to you, then doesn't matter what the graphs say. Did you give it enough "burn in" or adjustment time? I had a KZ BA10 that I initially hated the sound of, in fact I would describe it as you did, but now it is one of my favorites. I'm not claiming any "burn in" effect, but I can't explain why the sound changed so much better for me.

Your ears/brain adjust and become accustomed to almost anything you're repeatedly exposed to.

IE: I've been almost exclusively using some mh-750's daily for more than three months now and i don't notice their deficiencies despite them being numerous in some portions of the signature.

 

[H T T]

Your ears/brain adjust and become accustomed to almost anything you're repeatedly exposed to.

IE: I've been almost exclusively using some mh-750's daily for more than three months now and i don't notice their deficiencies despite them being numerous in some portions of the signature.

My tinnitus begs to differ...

 

[duaned]

With Linsoul nothing surprises me actually!

 

[Fat Larry]

My tinnitus begs to differ...

Ha thanks, now i can hear mine...

 

[redrol]

Couple things, that black graphs is actually wrongly tuned. That L4 is ruined because the highest part of the pinna gain is not correct based on published graphs. This is not minor, this is a completely different IEM.

 

[progdvd]

Couple things, that black graphs is actually wrongly tuned. That L4 is ruined because the highest part of the pinna gain is not correct based on published graphs. This is not minor, this is a completely different IEM.

Yup, that is what I was saying to them. They responded with there could be slight differences and they concluded there is nothing wrong with them and refused to do anything for me.... No iems and I'm down for 350 usd.

 

[IEMusic]

Yup, that is what I was saying to them. They responded with there could be slight differences and they concluded there is nothing wrong with them and refused to do anything for me.... No iems and I'm down for 350 usd.

Yeah, that’s nearly 15dB of peak gain on your set, with the peaks at 4 and 6KHz. That’s both shouty and bright. The graphs by Crin and BGGAR both show much less gain overall, and the peak is at 5KHz, with dips at 4 and 6KHz. Graphs certainly don’t tell the whole story, but that CIEM graph looks painful to me. I think it would reasonable for them to at least try and adjust the tuning, via dampers in the proper tubes.

 

[redrol]

The real deal is they are overwhelmed and are throwing their loyal customers under the bus. (not my bus, haha). I'd be very very upset if I spend $350 bux and got that kind of tuning and then all the time wasted and crap. The IEM has belsing BA so they could have replaced the entire thing for cheap.

Vote with your money.

 

[progdvd]

Yeah, that’s nearly 15dB of peak gain on your set, with the peaks at 4 and 6KHz. That’s both shouty and bright. The graphs by Crin and BGGAR both show much less gain overall, and the peak is at 5KHz, with dips at 4 and 6KHz. Graphs certainly don’t tell the whole story, but that CIEM graph looks painful to me. I think it would reasonable for them to at least try and adjust the tuning, via dampers in the proper tubes.

No, they didn't offer any solution for me. They just said, we are sending your L4 back to you, we'll send you tracking number...
2 weeks have passed no tracking number. Frankly I don't need them like that. I'm not sensitive at all to that region and with L4 is straight away yuck face. Just incredible how bad the sound was, it's beyond bad, just like you said painful.

 

[Fabulo]

Ok this time I want to share my experience with Legacy 4 and Linsoul. This have to be said to be used just as a warning to all of you who are considering to buy a Thieaudio product.
I didn't want to say anything earlier, I've waited for the resolution to this issue and now finally I have to say my piece.

Lest start from the beginning. I've ordered Legacy 4 custom shell from Linsoul on 6th of January about few day after it got available. Even though I didn't hear uiem first I was confident I would like the tuning based on BGGARs review and also few others. I wanted to try CIEM and L4 was the priced ok and Linsoul stood to me as a more or less reputable seller with the track of taking care of thier buyers. So I figured why not let's see what this L4 can do and later I'll probably invest in Monarch most probably.

25 days passed I received them. First of all, I'm not sure but nobody here or anywhere else mentioned this, but the smell of L4 box is awful. I cannot describe it like some kind of chemical I cannot name it. I'm ordering lots of things from China and Ali Express and nothing ever smelled as bad as L4 no matter how cheap the item was. I thought it doesn't matter iems are important I can always throw away the box.

Fast forward 3 days into using them and A-B with some of my other iems I came to a conclusion that L4 is the worst iem I ever heard in my life. Especially when directly compared to the cheapest and nastiest earbuds I have. Just to put it in perspective Blon 05 is realy badly tuned iem I don't like it at all, but it sounds like a TOTL compared to L4.

Main problem was in low treble area, there was so much energy there it made them sound very grainy, hollow, harsh... I cannot find the right words right now to describe what I heard. Since I'm over 40 now I'm not sensitive to high mids or treble at all but that was way too much. Also apparently I have very good hearing according to my audiologist based on the hearing test I took when I got ear impressions done.

After 3 days I contacted Linsoul about it saying that the tuning is not right among other things... Eventually we agreed that I send my L4 back to them and they will test it. And if I'm right they will refund me 65%....

Again fast forward we exchanged several e-mails, from my side long emails explaining everything into detail and even sending them BGGAR and Crin graphs just to prove them that tuning is not the same. They previously have send me thier graph of my set saying there is nothing wrong with my set other than "slight difference" in the graphs. What? Slight difference?........ Further down you can check the graphs I'm talking about.

Basically thier response was:
Earphones work, our engineers have said there is nothing wrong.... We don't allow refunds on CIEMs, they even refused my suggestion to reshell them into UIEM and re-tune them right so I could use them or maybe sell them if I wanted to, they refused. But they allow free reshelling ciems if the fit is not good. Fit was good in my case just tuning definetliy didn't match reviews and graphs.

They refused to do anything for me in this case. It was like I'm talking with the wall. They told me they will send L4 back to me after I replied with if they do L4 is going straight to garbage. Which is honest truth I cannot do anything with them. 2 weeks have passed of course they didn't send it back.

This is Linsoul customer service my friends. Representative told me that he informed his colleagues about my issue and that this is company policy.... I don't know who actually was informed, or does Lilian knows.

May I just add after all these countless e-mails I was extremely polite, respectful and understanding that mistakes can happen. I was just asking that we together find a good solution for both sides. They refused to do anything for me even after I told them I had previously reviewed positively some of thier other gear here on Head-fi and other audiophile groups. After I told them I'm still interested to buy Monarch in 2-3 months as soon as I save enough money. And what ever I get from this L4 deal would help me.... In between the lines thier response was basically thank you for your support now **** off we are busy we have enough orders, we don't need your pittifull business 1-2 iem per year. This last sentence yes I'm exaggerating, but when you look at it objetivly I'm not wrong here.

I'm down for the cost of iems, custom charge, impressions cost, import tax cost (20%europe), and the cost of shipping L4 back to them.

You know when I will order again from Linsoul? NEVER. I wanted to settle down with Monarch after one long conversation with one audiophile colleague, he convinced me Monarch is worth getting... Sorry buddy that is not happening anymore. I'll invest into real TOTL like UM, 64 Audio, EE... Or whatever, Linsoul never again.

These are the graphs I mentioned earlier. Tell me please who is crazy here?

Thank you for sharing your experience, I wanted to buy the Legacy 4 too but definitely won't do it from their official store. I have had similar problems with 3 famous Chi-Fi brands and stores (TRN, NiceHCK and Shenzhenaudio). According to their customer service, the problem was always me because their products are perfect. The only way I have found to solve the situation is to buy everything on Amazon or pay via PayPal and in case of problems, contact them. 99% of the time they will refund you. It's sad but you have to be an assh*** just like them. I'm sorry about your situation.

 

[progdvd]

According to their customer service, the problem was always me because their products are perfect.

I agree on everything you said, and this sentence especially is spot on

 

[morndewey]

Was about to pull trigger on Linsoul iem. Not anymore. Terrible

 

[jsmiller58]

I agree on everything you said, and this sentence especially is spot on

What you are going through is unfortunate, and Linsoul is only harming their brand. Whether or not the product has an issue, they should keep the old maxim of “The customer is always right” in mind. I have ordered a few things directly from them in the past, with good results, though my last order was in late 2019, so things may have changed.

I will say that I have the L4 universal version (purchased on Drop) and I do like it. It is different than many of my other IEMs in that the sound is brighter than I am used to, so when I use them it does take me some time to adjust.

I would caution about comparing graphs from different sources. Measurement rigs often vary, proper seal may or may not have been achieved, and measurement methodology may also vary. One reviewer who has a popular YouTube channel actually tweaks his measurements live until the graphs display the resonant frequency peak at 8KHz his rig regularly displays on other IEMs due to the physical properties of his measurement rig. This way he can be confident comparing the graph of a particular IEMs to other IEMs he has previously generated.

FWIW, and you may already know and do this, so my apologies if I am being redundant... I recommend you find an IEM with a sound signature that you like (if you have access to other IEMs) and then go to a source like Crinnacle and see if he has that IEM measured. Then use that as a reference point to compare other IEMs you are interested in if he has those IEMs also measured. While I will completely agree that a Frequency Response graph is not the only way to assess an IEM, and that FR graphs miss a lot of other aspects, the FR graph will tell you a lot about the tonality of an IEM. No amount of detail and soundstage, for me, will overcome a tonality that I do not like...

Anyway, I hope that your audio journey has many more ups than downs!