The Zishan dsd's corner

[Merlin-PT]

The obvious problem is big price, sometimes less is better
Because these are portable devices, there are space and power supply design limitations, not only amount, but clean and stable power.
For example ak datasheet recommends 2x 2200uF in VREF (per dac) to lower noise, but that will never fit inside this size and still they ride on the idea of 2xDACs manufacture specs that are probably only true with that and other circuit and power supply conditions.
I really don't know, but I wonder if this dual dac portable designs are like the megapixels or the number of cameras in mobile phones, if it makes sense to put 2 dacs that are not designed for portable devices, inside that small space and if that is very beneficial, when everything else is cut down because of space.

 

[Themilkman46290]

So i am waiting for some other caps, the Ldos and my next payday, the woodedn box i tried to build cracked when i was finishing it so i put it away (got angry and smashed it to little tiny pieces) i will try again later

But i have a rough prototype of the extended original box

I used some replacement battery wire connector soldered to the pcb in place of the output caps so i can keep trying a few more caps before i go permanent. For now they will sit half in and half out

Also used a longer 2mm brass pcb spacer about 10mm long adding enough space for bigger caps inside ( from 6.3 to 8.3)its not at all finished but like i said, wating until the end of the month, also will probably slide the batteries from the center to one side and fix the caps in there

 

[kookaudio]

Nice but I would definitely shorten the distance from the capacitors to the board: all that distance and enrealiabke connections give a much higher ESR, with consequent poor sonic results

 

[Themilkman46290]

Yeah i notice what you mean, i had cut the old caps off and first tried these soldered to the old leads, but though i would try this for a wile. But yes i noticed it didnt sound as clean

But until i get the rest of the parts, i will keep trying out what ever i can find this gives me that option

 

[HeyManslowdown97]

Yeah i notice what you mean, i had cut the old caps off and first tried these soldered to the old leads, but though i would try this for a wile. But yes i noticed it didnt sound as clean

But until i get the rest of the parts, i will keep trying out what ever i can find this gives me that option

You might wanna start with a Multimeter and check everything resistor, amp, etc but first start with caps if they are firing at all cylinders the longer wiring maybe getting interference from a ground loop since the wiring is exposed and convoluted.

Moore’s Law: Big isn’t necessarily better that’s why it’s hard to put your hands in there we are working on Nano chips! When you scale up it isn’t necessarily better you may get maybe be 15% extra but it’s better working conditions and the parts are less brittle.

Myself- I thought about longer metal rods on all four side but there’s no space on the Zishan board to lay the dac flush. I‘m gonna redesign the body with either flexible aluminum or plastic. Plastic like a military-grade case you get to protect your phone redesigned on a 3D printer with more geometric shapes to smooth out the edges in the design. If I can pull off a touchscreen logtisitically, I’ll get a gorailla glass for the front surface and a faster charging battery wireless for the back. Plastic allows the charge to happen. I’d also like to replace micro usb with a Micro usb C to double the amount of information transmitteed from the DAC to an output and also to allow it to transfer files via Micro USB C

There’s a reason rounded edge or curved edges work better aesthetically it make it less pointy and efficient like an aerodynamic cars. That’s why many cars that have high fuel efficiency are designed that way and muscle cars are all torque made for the nostalgic types at hot rod shows. NASCAR all lefts cause you around in circles??? Formula 1 lighter, better designed and computerized sensors in real time!

You gotta workout the dimensions of the casing first otherwise you get a steel bird box like in Wood shop class that when you touch it gives off static energy power surge to the electrical wiring.

 

[Themilkman46290]

You might wanna start with a Multimeter and check everything resistor, amp, etc but first start with caps if they are firing at all cylinders the longer wiring maybe getting interference from a ground loop since the wiring is exposed and convoluted.

Moore’s Law: Big isn’t necessarily better that’s why it’s hard to put your hands in there we are working on Nano chips! When you scale up it isn’t necessarily better you may get maybe be 15% extra but it’s better working conditions and the parts are less brittle.

Myself- I thought about longer metal rods on all four side but there’s no space on the Zishan board to lay the dac flush. I‘m gonna redesign the body with either flexible aluminum or plastic. Plastic like a military-grade case you get to protect your phone redesigned on a 3D printer with more geometric shapes to smooth out the edges in the design. If I can pull off a touchscreen logtisitically, I’ll get a gorailla glass for the front surface and a faster charging battery wireless for the back. Plastic allows the charge to happen. I’d also like to replace micro usb with a Micro usb C to double the amount of information transmitteed from the DAC to an output and also to allow it to transfer files via Micro USB C

There’s a reason rounded edge or curved edges work better aesthetically it make it less pointy and efficient like an aerodynamic cars. That’s why many cars that have high fuel efficiency are designed that way and muscle cars are all torque made for the nostalgic types at hot rod shows. NASCAR all lefts cause you around in circles??? Formula 1 lighter, better designed and computerized sensors in real time!

You gotta workout the dimensions of the casing first otherwise you get a steel bird box like in Wood shop class that when you touch it gives off static energy power surge to the electrical wiring.

Sounds good, but i am on a budget and i dont have that much freetime , and your talking about many steps, it would end up costing me $100's more then i want to spend(3d printer, multimeter and countless hours working on the whole thing) what you plan sounds nice but too much for me

I just planned on expanding the case enough to fit some good caps, opamp and change the regulators, like i said, going to try as many different caps before i go permanently

And as for ergonomics, well i got used to stacking my older dsd with a walnut f1 and this its about the same in the pocket.

No need to explain design, i studied architecture, design and sculpture, and dont forget big, boxy rear ends give cares much better drag, lets them go faster on the straits, formula 1 cars have to fight alot more of drag than a stock car but turns better

 

[buzzbuzz]

If they use a Single-Ended connection, install an op-amp that has internal short circuit protection in the socket, and jumper across the output series resistors.
.
Next step would be to install better output series capacitors.

I have OPA2107 op amp that has short circuit protection (according to specs), that means I can solder jumpers aross the output resistors.

Ha! Blasphemy. It just doesn’t work it’s locked I tried it and NOTHING of the Sort happened my player works perfectly still! Aka “Protected”

The warning was a bit hyberbolic, Ivan. What isnt hyperbolic are the Russian sites that “claim” to have the Zishan upgrade firmware when security warnings pop up if you hover the mouse over the link. (Google it, Zishan Dsd Firmware and all top searches are with .ru are shady)

You can find the firmware for Z1, Z2, Z3 easily but it doesn’t recognize it (because it’s protected) and there are threads that have put rockbox on it and reinstall the firmware back to the stock but they don’t use Rockbox b/c it’s set at 44 16 bit only Rockbox is the firmware that the “protected scheme” was built on the Zishan.

If it’s on Github you can trust it unless someone puts a virus on it which does happen.

Why is protected most likely has to do with keeps it locked and stable; that’s all and bit of an oxymoron from a state run company (All Chinese companies are required by law to have 35% ownership by the Chinese government) that steals IP and puts fake parts on it product.

What is a fair warning is any work you try to do on Zishan Board with zero experience like me. It’s a challenge and unforgiving! I installed 4 Nichicon Fine Gold capacitors and accidently rip one of the terminal pads likely I was able to solder it in another positive terminal and it got stereo but it’s only a patch, I’ll have to fix the pad because I’m worried about blowing the cap and it might explode. You won’t die but it’s unstable. I don’t like being unsafe.

The Wright Brothers fixed bicycles for a living took the first flight for all Mankind. Elon Musk is making electric cars against an industry that has over 120 years experience.

Don’t be ruled by fear because you won’t get anything when you are scared to make a calculated decision. It’s a just a diy music player not a matter of life and death. the experience of going through it are priceless regardless of the outcome. It’s important to have fun and learn something that’s my take anyway. And remember you gonna make mistakes and have setback no doubt. It’s a process not a destination. Nobody start off like an Ivan.

Off TOPIC

Chinese has about 150,000 SOEs only. Around 60% of those are partially owned by private individual. However, these SOEs represent 60% if the country's manufacturing outputs. So these are big companies. A new law was imposed about 5 years ago : all companies beyond certain size (?) Must have at least 1 board member who is also a Party member.

 

[HeyManslowdown97]

I have OPA2107 op amp that has short circuit protection (according to specs), that means I can solder jumpers aross the output resistors.

Misread and my comment was Deleted because it misinterpreted the info.

Thanks for the info!

 

[Merlin-PT]

The reason zishan FW is read protected is to protect their work from being stolen, so clones can't be produced.
This is common practice in commercial products and this HW protection is designed by the chip manufacture.
Sometimes this HW protection can be and is broken and FW binary can be stolen, but I'm against doing this kind of thing.

 

[HeyManslowdown97]

The reason zishan FW is read protected is to protect their work from being stolen, so clones can't be produced.
This is common practice in commercial products and this HW protection is designed by the chip manufacture.
Sometimes this HW protection can be and is broken and FW binary can be stolen, but I'm against doing this kind of thing.

Merlin- Fair Enough by why does the firmware have to suck and set to 2001 standards!

I don’t wanna steal I just want ownership of the device to do whatever I please to the firmware like improve upon it! Not clone it and mass produce it on Amazon. Haha

 

[HeyManslowdown97]

Biggest Annoyance with the Firmware is when you listening to a song and do the long hold to left button and the song starts from the beginning ugh !

Also does the EQ even Work??? And I see no difference between “default” “High Quality Mode”

Lastly, in the English version “Flder” I’m dyslexic but I want my device’s firmware to know how to spell.

All this is annoy and then I forget all about it when I’m in ecstasy listening to music in a whole new way.

Merlin- you’re right maybe less is more

Before I worked on the board I’d look at studying it before bed. Just to marvel at how it produces sound like a work of art.

 

[Merlin-PT]

Yes, it's far from perfect and every time someone tries to fast backward in a song a kitty dies, but it has a DIY side that it also interesting to explore.

 

[HeyManslowdown97]

My bad. Now it make sense why are gojng this route.

The Multimeter is like 35 bucks and worth having in the tool box.

My craftsmanship skills are atrocious so I have concept just not the skill to make it happen yet.

I order another Zishan Dsd cause they’re cheaper under 100 on AE so this is my protocol and the one I’m learning on. If worse comes to worse and the board gets damaged by me I’ll just take the scheme and design it on a new board. The most expensive the one the dac is the chips.

Dude- you got better skills than me, just be patent with ourself this board is difficult and spaces are tiny. Realistically we all have limitations and will be as good as computers in tight spaces. I for one have far fingers and have a tough time focusing between the magnifying glass and the naked eye.

But In my mind I’m an engineer and all “works” out in my head. Haha

Notice your somewhere you have the F.Audoo Ak4497 hows it sound?? The firmware is way better

Sounds good, but i am on a budget and i dont have that much freetime , and your talking about many steps, it would end up costing me $100's more then i want to spend(3d printer, multimeter and countless hours working on the whole thing) what you plan sounds nice but too much for me

I just planned on expanding the case enough to fit some good caps, opamp and change the regulators, like i said, going to try as many different caps before i go permanently

And as for ergonomics, well i got used to stacking my older dsd with a walnut f1 and this its about the same in the pocket.

No need to explain design, i studied architecture, design and sculpture, and dont forget big, boxy rear ends give cares much better drag, lets them go faster on the straits, formula 1 cars have to fight alot more of drag than a stock car but turns better

 

[HeyManslowdown97]

Yes, it's far from perfect and every time someone tries to fast backward in a song a kitty dies, but it has a DIY side that it also interesting to explore.

It’s like being in a realistic relationship and not with the hot chick you see on tv.

Zishan Dsd’s beauty is from the inside. She’s got a good heart that sings to my soul.

Thanks for the warning: I don’t wanna kill any more kitties unintentionally.

Those Caps on the top of the board are freakin hard to take off! Man! I got some 3.5 and 2.5 outputs they were cheap it looks like they are gonna go anytime soon I don’t wanna keep forcing the cord in.

Can you take out the Micro USB and replace it with a Micro usb c or is it once again a re-circuiting ? Seems not to be but I’m like 97.3% wrong about these things.

 

[Merlin-PT]

You can't change the micro usb socket to type C, type C socket has many more pins and like you suspect the speed is a very different circuit behind the socket. You can use any adapter you want.

The caps are only easy to desolder with the right tools.
Make sure there's no power, make sure big caps are discharged (no need in zishan), the better way is to desolder both pads at the same time (realize you are making a short circuit at cap legs).
It's easy with a wide iron tip (shape k) and a bit more difficult if you have a normal tip and have to side you iron tip to unsolder both at the same time. Don't pull or make force, only think that can be accomplished is to lift the copper pads in the PCB.
If you going to try many caps, consider soldering some soft wires or socket if you think there's the risk of damaging the PCB.