[arnyk]

I have never believed that cables make a difference as i have never heard a difference in any cable... until now. I was in a bind and needed a cable, like, NOW, so walked over to BestBuy and bought their house brand cheap interconnect. Its effect was not subtle. So much bass was missing that i thought something was wrong with my amp. It was incredible. How can they sell this stuff to people? Do they engineer it like this on purpose or just not care?

 
It is likely that the perception of a loss of bass was due to the well-known flaws in the alleged listening test. It was no doubt a casual sighted audiophile evaluation that fails to address a number of well-known failings of human perception that affect all of us:
 
(1) Audiophile Sighted Casual Evaluations are not useful evidence because they are not tests. That is, they do not involve comparison to a fixed, reliable standard.
 
(2) Audiophile Sighted Casual Evaluations are not useful evidence because they involve excessively long switchover times, which makes them highly susceptible to false negatives because they desensitize the listeners.
 
(3) Audiophile Sighted Casual Evaluations are not useful evidence because the do not involve proper level matching, which makes them highly susceptible to false positives because people report the level mismatches as sonic differences.
 
(4) Audiophile Sighted Casual Evaluations are not useful evidence because they do not involve listening to the identical same piece of music or drama within a few milliseconds, creating false positives because people report the mismatched music as sonic differences in the equipment.
 
(5) Audiophile Sighted Casual Evaluations are not useful evidence because they constantly reveal the true identity of the UUTs to the listener, creating false positives because people report their prejudices and preconceived notions as sonic properties of the equipment
 
So, based on your analysis of your own listening evaluations, which critical failings were the most likely to cause the improbable outcome that you have posted?

 

[dvw]

Bad cable? DC is as low as you can get. If your cable does not pass DC then you've got a problem. It is most likely a defective cable connector. Try a different cable or connection. There are bad cable and I had some.

 

[Steve Eddy]

Bad cable? DC is as low as you can get. If your cable does not pass DC then you've got a problem. It is most likely a defective cable connector. Try a different cable or connection. There are bad cable and I had some.

Could just be psychological too.

A number of times I'd been some high end salon when the big expensive system was being demoed. I'd get this funny look on my face and say "Hmmm.. Something's not right." They'd look at me like "What you talkin' 'bout Willis?"

I'd start looking things over, and after a bit I'd say "Ah! Here it is! The loudspeaker polarities aren't hooked up right!" I'd then pretend to "fix" the problem while actually doing nothing at all.

To a person, every time I'd do this, they'd all remark on how much deeper the bass was.

se

 

[arnyk]

  Bad cable? DC is as low as you can get. If your cable does not pass DC then you've got a problem. It is most likely a defective cable connector. Try a different cable or connection. There are bad cable and I had some.

 
Bad cables are generally frequency independent in terms of their audible effects. That's a pompous way of saying that bad cables usually totally or intermittently interrupt signal flow at all frequencies.
 
There is the case where a bad cable includes a corroded connection that functions like a low grade rectifier and actually adds nonlinear distortion, but usually the distortion is so pronounced that it is heard as distortion, not a timbre change.
 
More likely, the listener did not match levels (logic says this shouldn't be necessary but experience says that matching levels is a good double check)  and switch quickly enough to accurately perceive the comparison.  A side effect of slow switching can be that the music itself changed its spectral content (AKA timbre) between the comparisons.
 
In fact, one of the hardest listening challenges that there is, is the seemingly simple matter of hearing an absence of change when there is actually no change.  It is one reason behind the design of the ABX test because it is guaranteed that X sounds the same as either A or B, and if it doesn't sound identically like one of them, then there is something very wrong. 
 
That wrong thing may be as Mr. Eddy has pointed out, purely psychological. Or not. Science can be full of surprises!

 

[dvw]

   
Bad cables are generally frequency independent in terms of their audible effects. That's a pompous way of saying that bad cables usually totally or intermittently interrupt signal flow at all frequencies.
 
There is the case where a bad cable includes a corroded connection that functions like a low grade rectifier and actually adds nonlinear distortion, but usually the distortion is so pronounced that it is heard as distortion, not a timbre change.
 
More likely, the listener did not match levels (logic says this shouldn't be necessary but experience says that matching levels is a good double check)  and switch quickly enough to accurately perceive the comparison.  A side effect of slow switching can be that the music itself changed its spectral content (AKA timbre) between the comparisons.
 
In fact, one of the hardest listening challenges that there is, is the seemingly simple matter of hearing an absence of change when there is actually no change.  It is one reason behind the design of the ABX test because it is guaranteed that X sounds the same as either A or B, and if it doesn't sound identically like one of them, then there is something very wrong. 
 
That wrong thing may be as Mr. Eddy has pointed out, purely psychological. Or not. Science can be full of surprises!

What you said are all true. However, continuity and corrosion are not the only flaw in cable particularly a new cable. He is complaining about a loss of bass not a subtle reduction or lower bass. I have experienced such loss due to a bent connector. On a 60 LP where they have recording "stereo" tracks. The sound actually becomes mono as well. I think the isolation was broken and there was impedance developed across the wire ans caused crosstalk. I have seen this in RJ45 with poor crimpping. So this could be a manufacturing defect with isolation failure, poor solder joint, basically flaw between wire instead of flaw within the wire. Most of the failure I have experienced are plug related and not the actual cable.
 
P.S. My interconnect was a mini plug. Maybe RCA are more robust in its construction. 

 

[Exacoustatowner]

Well, I bought some fantastic NOS Cables!  I burned them in , taking in to account local Geo-magnetic distortions, on my special Cable Rotisserie-heated to human body temperature to insure neutrality-and rotating at a precise 440 RPM. 
 
I'm kidding! 
I just used Blue Jeans "interconnect" cables.   I replaced them because my vintage free RCA cables from various 80's and 90's CD, DVD, VHS, and Cassette Decks were not in the best shape-and some even showed signs of corrosion on the RCA plugs.  My speaker cables came with my Acoustats (which I foolishly sold years ago) and are regular old Copper. They are twisted pair at least- and nearly 30 years old- so I guess they ARE Vintage,  

 

[cablepro98]

For speaker cable i would recommend KnuKonceptz for speaker cable and for interconnects i also like the acoustic research master series for interconnects

 

[Exacoustatowner]

For speaker cable i would recommend KnuKonceptz for speaker cable and for interconnects i also like the acoustic research master series for interconnects

My interconnects are well built by Blue Jeans Cable. My 25 year old speaker cables are tightly twisted pairs of copper and other than being at least 10 feet too long should be fine.
At 25 feet long I think they are still too short to have any audible roll off. I doubt I can hear over 15 KHz anyway.
Not sure what the gauge is but it looks to nearly as thick as typical lamp cord.
I've yet to see measurements saying any exotic cables are better

 

[upstateguy]

 

For speaker cable i would recommend KnuKonceptz for speaker cable and for interconnects i also like the acoustic research master series for interconnects

My interconnects are well built by Blue Jeans Cable. My 25 year old speaker cables are tightly twisted pairs of copper and other than being at least 10 feet too long should be fine.
At 25 feet long I think they are still too short to have any audible roll off. I doubt I can hear over 15 KHz anyway.
Not sure what the gauge is but it looks to nearly as thick as typical lamp cord.
I've yet to see measurements saying any exotic cables are better

 
My speaker cables are not twisted.  Just stuck together from the roll they came on.  Do they sound any different than yours?

 

[Exacoustatowner]

My speaker cables are not twisted.  Just stuck together from the roll they came on.  Do they sound any different than yours?

Yes. Bass drums will sound like constipated whale farts and have too much grunt! Also they are more prone to Demonic Possession and distortion. You may hear malevolent laughter in quiet passages.
Not to worry- for only $19.95 I can send you a tuned crystal to prevent any issues.
Answer: not in any way affecting audibility if you care for reality based answers.

 

[upstateguy]

 

My speaker cables are not twisted.  Just stuck together from the roll they came on.  Do they sound any different than yours?

Yes. Bass drums will sound like constipated whale farts and have too much grunt! Also they are more prone to Demonic Possession and distortion. You may hear malevolent laughter in quiet passages.
Not to worry- for only $19.95 I can send you a tuned crystal to prevent any issues.
Answer: not in any way affecting audibility if you care for reality based answers.

 
Didn't hear the laughter but definitely the whale farts.  I wasn't sure what that noise was but now that you've given me a reference point I can see what I heard.
 
Thanks for the crystal offer but I just bought two extra wide rolls of tin foil, so I'm covered.

 

[Exacoustatowner]

   
Didn't hear the laughter but definitely the whale farts.  I wasn't sure what that noise was but now that you've given me a reference point I can see what I heard.
 
Thanks for the crystal offer but I just bought two extra wide rolls of tin foil, so I'm covered.

That will do it! The tin foil will ward off the VLF sounds from Whale communication (can travel thousands of miles). You are lucky to have no demons nearby. The twisted pair design makes them dizzy as they travel the cables-and they quickly leave.
 
Back to reality- a friend of mine picks up a Mexican radio station on his tube pre-amp. I offered my crystals-but he is reality based and knows it's RF rather than singing demons. 

 

[cablepro98]

they are not exotic i chose them based of material science and what i heard off a few audioholics videos on speaker cable and interconnects the acoustic research are Double shielded and use teflon as a dielectric use thick silver plated copper and only cost me 20$ which is cheaper then the blue jeans cable also the Knu Konceptz i purely chose of material they are of thick gauge pure tinned copper and for the 8 gauge only 1.65 a foot and for most stereo systems you only need a few feet of cable for your system they had good reviews on amazon and i think they are both trusted brands as long as you ignore their claims and choose just based of material science and cable design.

 

[upstateguy]

 

   
Didn't hear the laughter but definitely the whale farts.  I wasn't sure what that noise was but now that you've given me a reference point I can see what I heard.
 
Thanks for the crystal offer but I just bought two extra wide rolls of tin foil, so I'm covered.

That will do it! The tin foil will ward off the VLF sounds from Whale communication (can travel thousands of miles). You are lucky to have no demons nearby. The twisted pair design makes them dizzy as they travel the cables-and they quickly leave.
 
Back to reality- a friend of mine picks up a Mexican radio station on his tube pre-amp. I offered my crystals-but he is reality based and knows it's RF rather than singing demons. 

In Digital cables they become reflections.....
 

  they are not exotic i chose them based of material science and what i heard off a few audioholics videos on speaker cable and interconnects the acoustic research are Double shielded and use teflon as a dielectric use thick silver plated copper and only cost me 20$ which is cheaper then the blue jeans cable also the Knu Konceptz i purely chose of material they are of thick gauge pure tinned copper and for the 8 gauge only 1.65 a foot and for most stereo systems you only need a few feet of cable for your system they had good reviews on amazon and i think they are both trusted brands as long as you ignore their claims and choose just based of material science and cable design.

 
Thanks.  That's what I needed to know.....

 

[Speedskater]

My speaker cables are not twisted.  Just stuck together from the roll they came on.  Do they sound any different than yours?

While it's rare, it's possible for speaker cables to pick-up RFI interference.  So twisting is free and reduces the possibility.
Jim Brown often writes on twisting any and all unshielded multi-conductor cables.