[TheWuss]

 
Having recently seen the CanJam at RMAF reports come flying in, fellow head-fier Moodyrn and I were chatting, and decided to have our own mini-CanJam.  Just to reassure ourselves that, gosh darn it, our gear was pretty good, and we could have fun without flying all the way from Birmingham to Denver.
 
Besides, Michael was dying to hear my LCD-2, Liquid Fire, and Peak/Volcano.  And me, I was dying to hear his vintage Fisher and Pioneer amps, as well as his Stax rig.  So, we set a time and got together at my office downtown.  Little did I know that lugging a couple vintage amps up the flight of stairs to my second floor office was going to be so difficult.  This made Moodyrn and I very glad that he didn't bring his 66-pound Kenwood beast (though I would've loved to hear it)...
 
Sources used:
Bryston BDA-1 DAC
Cambridge iD100 iPod Dock
Meier StageDAC
Marantz SA8004
 
Amps used:
Stax SRM-T1S
Cavalli Liquid Fire
Apex Peak with Volcano Power Supply
Pioneer SX1010
The Fisher X100C
 
Headphones used:
Beyerdynamic T1
LCD-2 rev.2
HifiMAN HE-6
Ultrasone Edition 8
Shure SRH840
AKG K340
Stax SR-407
 
Sorry for the crappy camera phone pics.  But, with a huge bag full of gear to lug to the meet, I forgot my Nikon.
Hope you guys can forgive me...
 
   
 

The Fisher vintage tube receiver, Moodryn's Stax rig, and his Marantz SACD player
 
 

Moodyrn's Pioneer SX1010, a vintage solid stage receiver
 
 
   
Jazz at the Pawnshop, HfifMAN HE-6
 
 
   
The Cambridge iD100 dock, Meier StageDAC, Cavalli Liquid Fire, Audez'e LCD-2 rev.2, and AKG K340
 
 

Ultrasone Edition 8, Beyerdynamic T1
 
 

Apex Peak with Volcano Power Supply and Bryston BDA-1 D/A Converter (Sylvania chrome top 6SN7GTB)
 
 

Self portrait of a Wuss, enjoying the HE-6
 
 

Moodyrn, enjoying the LCD-2 and Cavalli
 
 
Impressions:
 
This was my first head-fi meet of any kind, actually.  So, for the most part, I was really just enjoying getting together with someone who likes the hobby as much as I do.  Moodyrn and I shot the bull, and jumped from rig to rig, checking out the different sounds.
 
The purpose of the meet, as I mentioned, was for Moodyrn to hear the Cavalli and Peak, and for me to hear the vintage amps.  I'm not sure what I was expecting from the Fisher and Pioneer.  But, having the seen the popularity of the vintage receiver thread that Moodryn started (now at over 200 pages), I wanted to believe I was in for something nice.
 
I first tried the HE-6 from the speaker taps of the Fisher.  Using my wireworld banana plug to 4-pin XLR adapter.  I was pretty amazed at how warm and inviting the HE-6 could be made to sound.  No more clinical highs, no more thin midrange, no more anemic bass.  I could tell that the noise floor wasn't the most impressive in the world, but the sheer musicality and force with which the amp handled the HE-6 was very impressive.
 
Next, I tried the Pioneer solid stage amp with the HE-6.  This amp delivers about 9 watts into the headphone jack.  So the speaker tap wasn't really necessary.  And this combo, as Goldilocks would say, was just right.  It was a bit more neutral than the Fisher, but the detail retrieval was better.  And, even though it was so close to neutral, the HE-6 wasn't overly bright at all.  This combo had me rocking out, as I was listening to Eva Cassidy sing about "Dancing Cheek to Cheek."  It was awesome.
 
I was so impressed with the Pioneer that I grabbed the Beyer T1 to try with it.  At first there was a good bit of hiss through the headphone jack, but Moodyrn remembered to enable the "-20 dB" function, bringing the gain down to something the T1 could handle.  And this combo, was pretty much nose-to-nose with the HE-6.  Very impactful, very musical, and I didn't feel like I was missing anything.
 
Next up for me was his Stax combo.  I popped "Jazz at the Pawnshop" into his Marantz SACD, and turned on the Stax amp.  And this combo was delightful.  I was most surprised by the overall balance of the sound.  I had read many reports of electrostatic headphones being light in the bass.  And, sure, they might lack some of the super deep bass, but here was a headphone that sounded pretty balanced from top to bottom.  Later I would try the Stax rig connected to my Bryston DAC, and this was one of my favorite sounds of the evening.  Moodyrn and I both agreed the Bryston was "the source" of the night, but that the Marantz (using the same DAC chip I believe) came within 90% of the Bryston for half the money - that makes it an impressive CD player in my book.
 
From the Bryston source, I even played some good ol' rock music through the Stax SR-407s, to see if I could make them squirm under the weight of something more difficult to resolve.  And, with Alice in Chains' unplugged album, they still sounded balanced, and had enough oomph to make me grin from ear to ear.
Moodyrn and I only wished that we had some functioning XLR cables, to connect the Stax amp to the Bryston balanced, for a bit more speed and clarity...
 
As the evening progressed, I moved from rig to rig, just to affirm some of my initial assumptions.  But, I left with basically the same impression I started with:  that the vintage gear is quite impressive.  Each time I would return to the Cavalli or Peak amps, I heard a very similar sound, but with a slightly blacker background and just a little bit more detail.  And that, I suppose, is what a modern headphone amp gets you.  But, in terms of musicality, and overall portrayal, the vintage amps didn't lag behind at all.  In fact, there was something amazing about touching the volume knob of the Pioneer and having the HE-6 be at ear-shattering volume by 10 o'clock on the dial.  Wow.  I've never heard an amp do that with the HE-6 before!
 
And, so, I will wrap up for now...  I might reserve a second post for anything I've forgotten...  And I hope Moodyrn will chime in with his impression of the Cavalli, the Peak, and the LCD-2...
 

 

[TheWuss]

I also want to point out that while the Cavalli and Peak might be technically better amps for your average headphone, neither of them bring the HE-6 to life like the Pioneer does.  They might be powerful enough to drive every other headphone out there, but even the 4 watts Cavalli is borderline with the HE-6 (in my humble opinion, of course.  There are those who will disagree).
 
In fact, having owned the HE-6 for quite some time, I have never really fallen in love with the headphone.  And that, I must chalk up to the fact that I've never had it paired with the right amp before.
Because, last night, the vintage Pioneer receiver made me a believer.  It was that good.
 
And so the search begins for something similar for my collection...

 

[che15]

Pretty cool , it looks like you guys had a great time. Thank you much for sharing your views and findings.
I am getting very curious about stax headphones, will have to give them a try someday.

 

[moodyrn]

I will chime in and say first of all, it was a very fun night. I finally got a chance to listen to the lcd-2's, and I see why they are so polarizing. I now know why some love them and why some don't like them. But for me, I think they are awesome. Listening to Diana Krall with them through the liquid fire nearly put me in a trance. The liquid fire lcd-2 combo was outstanding. Her voice was very organic sounding with good texture. The bass was very smooth and refined. The imaging was very holographic and 3 dimensional. We used the Eva Cassidy album for a lot of comparisons and she sounded stunning on the T1. In fact the T1's with the peak/volcano and bryston combo was the best I've heard them and are better overall than the lcd-2's on that rig. Which leads me to the bryston. IMO it was the star of the show. It's the most natural sounding dac I've ever listened to and it had great synergy with the peak/volcano. It's the closest thing to vinyl I've ever heard.
 
 
I came away impressed with the shure srh840(WHAT!) Yes. I've owned them before but they never sounded they way they did with the peak/volcano bryston setup. With the setup I would put them ahead of the d7000 which I really like. I always thought they were a boring set of cans,  but they really came alive with that setup. The mids were buttery smooth, the bass although still lacking extension compared to the other cans there, was nice and tight with very good texture.  It had plenty of impact and the sound was just so coherent and seamless. I was a little skeptical when Brent first told me how good that paring was, but he was right. That setup made the shures sound like high end headphones.
 
I really want to thank Brent for making this happen, it was really interesting comparing my vintage amps to his really amazing amps. I know he was surprised, but I really wasn't. After diving into vintage gear, I sold all of my headphone amps. None of them were as good, and I believe it would take something like the peak/volcano or liquid fire to surpass them. And even then it was really close. But his amps does have an edge when it comes to technicalities. But the enjoyment factor is pretty much the same for me. The amazing thing is, either one of Brent's setup would be a dream setup in most homes including mine. The fact that he has several is astonishing. I would never want to leave the house if I had his gear.

 

[TheWuss]

Oh...  I forgot to mention the AKG K340.
Moodyrn and I both came away agreeing that the K340 does not live up to its reputation.  He has owned three of them, and modded them in various ways, but still ultimately wound up moving on to other cans each time. 
 
This K340, a recabled bass-heavy model that I've had in my posession for a little while, simply hasn't clicked for me.
We tried it last night from the Cavalli, and then from the Fisher.  And, while it benefited greatly from the power of the Fisher speaker taps, the mids still sounded boxy, and I could hear a strange dip somewhere in the transition from mids to treble.  The K340, while an interesting headphone, is easily outperformed by most contemporary models.
 
Just my opinion, of course...
 

 

[moodyrn]

Agreed. I prefer a good pair of sextetts to the k340. I came back to them a couple of times because they do have potential, but nothing I've done have ever solved the coherency issues. The treble is great, the mids are ok, and the bass is a bit loose and boomy. The mods I've done in the past have fixed the boomy bass but the problem with the mids and treble transition is due the the crossover and the electret driver. It sounds as if the mids and treble comes from two different headphones and are not well integrated with each other. They are not bad, but there're not anything special either. The shures were quiet a bit better.
 
 
 I also didn't mention the ed8. I think it's too expensive, but I also think it's the best currently produced closed headphone out there. And untill someone comes out with something better cheaper, they can get away with charging as much as they do. They pretty much have the closed high end market cornered. The build quality is top notch and it just feels like you have something with precision engineering in your hands when you hold them. I think all of the open headphones we had were better, but the sound you get from a closed headphone that's portable as well is really good. I'm hoping the new closed beyers live up to the hype since they are much cheaper. But even if they do, they are still not portable like the ed8.

 

[davo50]

Hey guys, Thanks for the report. Next time you do one of these, give me a shout. I am pretty close by in MS. I am very much an off and on head-fier though. Been away from head-fi for a few months upgrading my speaker rig but I have been hanging out here again the last few days - have an LCD-3 on pre-order. I too sold my headphone amps when I got interested in vintage. I have several vintage integrateds and receivers now and am perfectly happy with them as my head-amps. One of them a Fisher like Moodryn's with head-out wired directly to speaker taps. Glad to know they were at least "close" in comparison to all those awesome amps you have Wuss!

 

[moodyrn]

Hey Davo50. I actually mentioned you last night. I started to send you a pm, but didn't know if you would be willing to drive over here. But we could do a rotation lol. But I will definitely send you pm the next time we meet. I would love to listen to the other gear you have. It might be time for me to get another tube integrated, but the prices have skyrocketed over the last year or so.

 

[MrQ]

Good to see vintage gear getting the attention it deserves especially with the HE-6. Which I enjoy out of the SX-1980.
 
One thing though, could you all just keep it to yourselves? Your pushing up the prices on Ebay and Audiogon.

 

[moodyrn]

Yeah there's a sx1010 on ebay for 575.00 with 61.00 shipping. That's a bit more than they use to go for. Still worth it imo. You wan't find a headphone or speaker amp for that price that could touch it.

 
I'm still in shock at how good the shrures sounded with the peak/bryston combo.

 

[davo50]

Quote:

Hey Davo50. I actually mentioned you last night. I started to send you a pm, but didn't know if you would be willing to drive over here. But we could do a rotation lol. But I will definitely send you pm the next time we meet. I would love to listen to the other gear you have. It might be time for me to get another tube integrated, but the prices have skyrocketed over the last year or so.

Sounds good, maybe a Tuscaloosa meet!  Yeah, word seems to be getting out a little bit on the vintage thing... 
 

 

[TheWuss]

And, just for the record, here is some of the music we listened to:
 
 

Eva Cassidy - Live at Blues Alley
 
 

Jimmy Smith - Root Down:  Jimmy Smith Live!
 
 

Yellowjacket - Like a River
 
 

Jazz at the Pawnshop
 
 

Diana Krall - Live in Paris
 

 

[ardgedee]

Sounds like a great time, and makes me wish I could've gone too!
 
I feel like I should caution you all about the risk of harm to an output transformer-coupled amp when driving the HE-6 off the speaker taps. It was discussed at some length in the HE-6 thread, and PhaedrusX's comment there strikes me as the best summary of the problem:
 
 
[size=medium]

Quote:

these two links should answer most of the questions concerning impedance load mismatching with tube amps:
 
http://www.prestonelectronics.com/audio/Impedance.htm
http://www.geofex.com/tubeampfaq/taffram.htm
 
the first is a good primer for understanding Ohm's Laws; the second link delves into all things tube amp-related. it is exhaustive and comprehensive. highly recommended reading for those who are interested in the technical aspects of their gear.
 
for those averse to technical treatises, here's a brief summary of the issue:
 
a general rule of thumb for tube amps is the allowance of impedance loads up to twice the amount of the output impedance of the amp. a lot depends on the quality of the output transformers though, so while this may be safe for some amps, it may pose a danger to others. if in doubt, you should probably consult with the designer of your specific amp.
 
however, presenting a high impedance load that exceeds the tolerance of a tube amp can damage the output transformers and output tubes.
 
using the "garden hose" analogy from the first article, where the water pressure from the tap represents the voltage, the nozzle on the other end of the hose represents the impedance, and the actual flow of water out of the nozzle represents the current, problems can arise if the nozzle only allows a trickle over an extended time, which is the case when a too high impedance load is presented. the water pressure can build up inside the hose and it could spring leaks.
 
similarly, with an excessively high impedance load, energy can get stored inside tube amps, high voltages can build up with nowhere to go, and voltage spikes can occur that can penetrate the insulation of the transformer, and short the windings. in the same way, voltage spikes can penetrate the insulation of tube sockets or flash over them, and a permanent short can occur.

​

[/size]

Fixing this can be as simple as putting something between the speaker taps and the phones (an appropriate resistor bridging the speaker taps, or a product like HiFiMan's HE-Adapter), but that also affects the effective power received by the headphones.

 

[Silent One]

Quote:

And, just for the record, here is some of the music we listened to:
 

 
 
@ moodyrn; TheWuss:
 
Jimmy Smith Live?! Put me down!!!  

  I really enjoyed coming across this write-up on a Saturday night, made my weekend. I like that you two came together as opposed to waiting for CanJam or some other organized meets. I too, have been getting out more to mini-meets with local head-fier's (only two of us? It's a go!) this year and last instead of waiting for BIG events.
 
Also, shipsupt & Skylab just enticed me into the world of Vintage this past summer, so I'm jamming with an SX-650 for now...

 

[Silent One]

Quote:

I will chime in and say first of all, it was a very fun night. I finally got a chance to listen to the lcd-2's, and I see why they are so polarizing. I now know why some love them and why some don't like them. But for me, I think they are awesome. Listening to Diana Krall with them through the liquid fire nearly put me in a trance. The liquid fire lcd-2 combo was outstanding. Her voice was very organic sounding with good texture. The bass was very smooth and refined. The imaging was very holographic and 3 dimensional. We used the Eva Cassidy album for a lot of comparisons and she sounded stunning on the T1. In fact the T1's with the peak/volcano and bryston combo was the best I've heard them and are better overall than the lcd-2's on that rig. Which leads me to the bryston. IMO it was the star of the show. It's the most natural sounding dac I've ever listened to and it had great synergy with the peak/volcano. It's the closest thing to vinyl I've ever heard.
 
 
I came away impressed with the shure srh840(WHAT!) Yes. I've owned them before but they never sounded they way they did with the peak/volcano bryston setup. With the setup I would put them ahead of the d7000 which I really like. I always thought they were a boring set of cans,  but they really came alive with that setup. The mids were buttery smooth, the bass although still lacking extension compared to the other cans there, was nice and tight with very good texture.  It had plenty of impact and the sound was just so coherent and seamless. I was a little skeptical when Brent first told me how good that paring was, but he was right. That setup made the shures sound like high end headphones.
 
I really want to thank Brent for making this happen, it was really interesting comparing my vintage amps to his really amazing amps. I know he was surprised, but I really wasn't. After diving into vintage gear, I sold all of my headphone amps. None of them were as good, and I believe it would take something like the peak/volcano or liquid fire to surpass them. And even then it was really close. But his amps does have an edge when it comes to technicalities. But the enjoyment factor is pretty much the same for me. The amazing thing is, either one of Brent's setup would be a dream setup in most homes including mine. The fact that he has several is astonishing. I would never want to leave the house if I had his gear.

Enjoyed contributions from both you and TheWuss... A Grand Night Out!