[K3cT]

The Parasound issss awesome. I seem to be getting a smoother sound with the Offramp Turbo 2 as opposed to the Musiland 01USD but it's a subtle change.

 

[duetta]

Any opinions on how a Bel Canto DAC1 ranks compared to currently available units?  I have one that I've used exclusively since 2000 (less out of preference and more of sheer economic necessity) - and I have no basis for comparing its performance to anything else on the market today?

 

[Currawong]

I'll have another go with the Audiophilleo and the Parasound then. It seemed to improve my Reference 1 considerably more, so I figured I'd found the limit of the Parasound's ability. It is great as it is in my livingroom rig fed by the Apple TV so I left it at that in the end.

 

[intraman]

Timbre tt1 ....  this dac is just special .. I have thrown it in a couple of the best systems I have heard.... ( heard quite a few) and it still holds up well on redbook.
 
AL

 

[vrao81]

Surprised no one mentioned Rotel RCD-855. Cheap (should be around $100) and sounds great. Very smooth, musical, analog playback. Not the last word in transparency or detail, but musicality is great.
 

 

[K3cT]

I have just finished entirely recapping my Parasound 1100HD and the result is fantastically fabulous, like owning a new DAC! 
 

 
Special thanks to Neob, Colin, Filburt and Tony of Parasound for their sage advice and help in this endeavor. 

 

[computerparts]

Thought I'd bump this since it's been a while.

 

[Penarin]

Fun thread.
 
I used to have a decent amount of Audio Alchemy gear.  At one point I think my setup was transport / some sort of anti jitter interface box / DAC.  They made this odd powered digital cable.
 
I recently put together a little headphones only system- just a CD player and headphone amp.  I'd planned to use my JVC-XLZ1050TN ($700 in the mid 90s).  It was still at my dad's house and I was wondering how that old monster would sound.  But he said it died years ago. 

 

[DaveBSC]

Quote:

Thought I'd bump this since it's been a while.

Computerparts! Long time man. Still using the AN DAC? Have your thoughts on computers and servers changed at all? I'm seeing a lot of "best sound" and "best digital" going to products like the Empirical Overdrive USB DAC and Aurender servers now.

 

[computerparts]

Quote:

Computerparts! Long time man. Still using the AN DAC? Have your thoughts on computers and servers changed at all? I'm seeing a lot of "best sound" and "best digital" going to products like the Empirical Overdrive USB DAC and Aurender servers now.

 
Hey Dave. Yep still using the AN dac. Haven't had the urge to even think about trying any other dacs. For me, that was it. I knew it was the one from the first listen. I still have the same thoughts on computers and servers. You won't get me to replace a good cd transport with one even if you paid me lol. I think a lot of why you're seeing those acclaims is simply because that's where digital has moved to. There isn't a lot to compete with these days since a lot of the companies known for the classics (Levinson, Theta, EAD, Classe, Sonic Frontiers, Krell, etc...) aren't making stand alone dacs or are no longer in business. USB dacs seem to be commonplace now. Empirical Audio was always known for their horrendously IMO overpriced products and I see that still continues to this day with their $5,999 Overdrive SE. That price is outrageous so it better be the best USB dac out there.
 
Edit: I should add that I now have Telefunkens in the AN which took it to another level from when I had the Amprex tubes in there.

 

[DaveBSC]

Quote:

 
Hey Dave. Yep still using the AN dac. Haven't had the urge to even think about trying any other dacs. For me, that was it. I knew it was the one from the first listen. I still have the same thoughts on computers and servers. You won't get me to replace a good cd transport with one even if you paid me lol. I think a lot of why you're seeing those acclaims is simply because that's where digital has moved to. There isn't a lot to compete with these days since a lot of the companies known for the classics (Levinson, Theta, EAD, Classe, Sonic Frontiers, Krell, etc...) aren't making stand alone dacs or are no longer in business. USB dacs seem to be commonplace now. Empirical Audio was always known for their horrendously IMO overpriced products and I see that still continues to this day with their $5,999 Overdrive SE. That price is outrageous so it better be the best USB dac out there.

I really don't think the price is that bad, honestly. From everything I've seen, the $1299 Off-Ramp 5 outperforms just about everything out there, including more expensive converters like the $1800 Berkeley Alpha USB. The combination of the Alpha USB and Alpha DAC is also more expensive than the Overdrive SE, and not as good. Similarly, I've seen the Overdrive described as better than the more expensive Weiss, the more expensive Meitner, the more expensive Bricasti, and even the WAY more expensive dCS. The two that I haven't heard about going up against the Overdrive also cost just as much - the Aesthetix Pandora and the Calyx Femto. $6-7K seems to be where the majority of high-end USB DACs have settled right now, and the Overdrive is right in there.
 
Steve also says that the new Substation AC that goes with the SE version is actually better than the old Monolith supply, so that saves you $1200. It's not often when a manufacturer tells you not to buy their own products. Steve easily could've left the old wall-wart power supply in place and charged an extra thousand for the Substation AC as an upgrade, but he didn't.
 
Ultimately I see the CD as a dead end. The format is positively ancient (it's not that much younger than Laser Disc) and there are problems galore. You get to take your pick between pre or post-ringing, FR stops dead at 22Khz, and though it's not necessarily the fault of the medium, the vast majority of recording engineers don't take the CD seriously as something deserving of HQ sound the way they will with a vinyl release, and SACD is never going to go anywhere but down.
 
The CD transport has had decades to mature, and squeeze as most out of the format as absolutely possible. It's worth remembering that the earliest Philips and Sony CD players that cost several grand stunk. The Linux based servers that are becoming popular now are still in a similar infancy. Aside from Linn, Naim, and Burmester, pretty much all of the major companies haven't even gotten their toes wet yet, and those that have like Bryston are still pretty much putting their names on standard computers. Once more companies start building dedicated hardware designed purely for music playback as opposed to adapting off the shelf computer hardware, what's possible with digital sound is going to improve tremendously.
 
I can already say this - properly digitized vinyl at 24/96 or above ROCKS.

 

[estreeter]

In a way, its reassuring to know that I have about as much chance of ever hearing the DAC2X as I have of hearing a Gryphon or Meridian CDP. Or driving a Ferrari. By contrast, the Overdrive - while undeniably wallet-busting - is still within the realms of possibility, if not my definition of 'affordable'. Its like reading about the section of society who can afford a thousand dollar bottle of wine with dinner and not even bat an eyelid when the bill arrives - surreal. 
 
 

 

[DaveBSC]

Quote:

In a way, its reassuring to know that I have about as much chance of ever hearing the DAC2X as I have of hearing a Gryphon or Meridian CDP. Or driving a Ferrari. By contrast, the Overdrive - while undeniably wallet-busting - is still within the realms of possibility, if not my definition of 'affordable'. Its like reading about the section of society who can afford a thousand dollar bottle of wine with dinner and not even bat an eyelid when the bill arrives - surreal. 
 
 

Here's the thing though - an Esoteric P-03 will run you under $5K second hand, obviously more than an Auraliti or Sonore server, but less than the cost of a new Aurender. A used Meridian 808.2 or Audio Aero Capitole Reference is maybe $5500. Declining interest in spinning physical discs means that the values on these players are collapsing. That's bad if you paid full price, but good if you're not interested in a music server and you want top shelf CD playback for 1/3 the cost.

 

[computerparts]

Quote:

Here's the thing though - an Esoteric P-03 will run you under $5K second hand, obviously more than an Auraliti or Sonore server, but less than the cost of a new Aurender. A used Meridian 808.2 or Audio Aero Capitole Reference is maybe $5500. Declining interest in spinning physical discs means that the values on these players are collapsing. That's bad if you paid full price, but good if you're not interested in a music server and you want top shelf CD playback for 1/3 the cost.

 
That's exactly my point. The Overdrive may have good value compared to other dacs currently being manufactured. But when you compare it to a top of the line player/dac on the used market, that value quickly fades. I'll agree in terms of technological advancement, cd is dead. But sound-wise, IMO it's still the best out there. Music servers are improving I'm sure. But when they get it right, it's going to cost an arm and a leg for the best stuff just as it did with cd. 24/96 digitized vinyl may sound good but I don't see the point when my AN practically gives me the same presentation from all of my cd's, only without the artificial upsampling.

 

[DaveBSC]

Quote:

 
That's exactly my point. The Overdrive may have good value compared to other dacs currently being manufactured. But when you compare it to a top of the line player/dac on the used market, that value quickly fades. I'll agree in terms of technological advancement, cd is dead. But sound-wise, IMO it's still the best out there. Music servers are improving I'm sure. But when they get it right, it's going to cost an arm and a leg for the best stuff just as it did with cd. 24/96 digitized vinyl may sound good but I don't see the point when my AN practically gives me the same presentation from all of my cd's, only without the artificial upsampling.

 
The equivalent music server to SOTA transports and players would be either the Burmester 111 or the Constellation Cygnus. These are mega buck products to be sure, but it's possible that they are already outperforming even the finest disc spinners ever made. Hopefully in the next few years the tech from these machines will trickle down. The other positive trend is a shift away from just higher sample rates. First everybody had to get to 24/192, but now pretty much anything does that, it's no longer a selling point. A few brands are flirting with 32/384, but it's pointless. Nobody actually has music at rates that high, because an album would be enormous. You'd need a Blu-ray disc's storage space for one stereo recording. It's like having a 100 megapixel pocket camera.
 
Rather than sample rates, the new hot issue is jitter, which actually makes a real difference. If you want to outperform the other guys you need to use higher quality, more accurate clocks, digital receivers, etc, and that makes a real difference, even with 16/44 files.