[Kees]

Quote:

Originally Posted by scytheavatar /img/forum/go_quote.gif The veil is part of the Senn house sound, and many people like the HD650 exactly because of the veil, because it protects them from the poorly recorded music and because it makes the music sound smoother and less fatiguing. I am not a fan of this school of though, so I never liked the HD650, but it might be different for you.

The veil is what inadequate amplification does to the Senn house sound.

 

[Dionysus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kees /img/forum/go_quote.gif The veil is what inadequate amplification does to the Senn house sound.

How would a good reciever, and transport sound on 650 I see most use dedicated amp/dac combos.

the AVR I have has lots of power 140w, plus I can put it in pure audio mode like I mentioned earlier, and match it with an excellent transport with great Wolfson dac's. anyone care to comment?

 

[.coco]

You already bought them, so dont stress it. Once you get them, listen to them, and decide if you like the overall sound for yourself.

 

[Maxvla]

The wattage of your receiver doesn't matter because the headphone amp portion is completely separate. Unless your receiver was made with a decent headphone section (rare) you likely won't be getting anywhere near proper amplification.

Think of the headphone and speaker sections of a receiver like a combo dvd/vcr, 2 totally separate inputs leading to a common output, with headphones and speakers you have a common source leading to completely separate outputs.

 

[Gradofan2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dionysus /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have a pair of HD650 I have coming from JR tonight the main reason I purchased them is based on lots of favorable reviews, and frankly a lot of members here swear by them, and I wanted to update my HD595 with my newly purchased Essence STX sound card. But I was curious about a term that’s frequently used here with regards to the Senn HD650 that term being veiled now a quick peek at the Describing Sound - A Glossary sticky, and this term doesn’t exactly suggest this is a good thing. So I guess my question is if veiled is not a good thing with regard to the sound from HD650 why are these headphone so highly recommended? Tonight I will find out first hand how these Phones are compared to the HD595's. Thanks in advance for replies.

There will be no "veil" with those you ordered - they'll be the "new" version of the Senns, which have no veil. They'll sound about as good as any phones available... provided... you have a good source (not expensive), and a good amp, which mates well with them (not expensive).

With the proper set up you'll hear just as much detail, and clarity, and brightness as almost any phones available... and better than most!

 

[kelvinz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gradofan2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif There will be no "veil" with those you ordered - they'll be the "new" version of the Senns, which have no veil. They'll sound about as good as any phones available... provided... you have a good source (not expensive), and a good amp, which mates well with them (not expensive). With the proper set up you'll hear just as much detail, and clarity, and brightness as almost any phones available... and better than most!

completely disagree

the 650's all versions I've owned/heard have the veil

 

[Rob T]

Quote:

Originally Posted by scytheavatar /img/forum/go_quote.gif The veil is part of the Senn house sound, and many people like the HD650 exactly because of the veil, because it protects them from the poorly recorded music and because it makes the music sound smoother and less fatiguing. I am not a fan of this school of though, so I never liked the HD650, but it might be different for you.

I haven't tried the HD650's, but I know I don't want a "veiled" sound either. But I have the AKG 701's, which can be just a tad on the bright side. Would the 650's be going from one extreme to the other?

Are there some 'phones that would fall somewhere in between the two?

 

[Gradofan2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kelvinz /img/forum/go_quote.gif completely disagree the 650's all versions I've owned/heard have the veil

I completely disagree...

All of the "new" versions" I've owned have had no veil... though... the "old versions" did.

Perhaps... its your set up.

 

[scootermafia]

They just don't have a shrieky treble like my Beyers. They are relaxing to listen to and feel like a broken-in shoe, smooth and perfect. My Beyers might seem a little more detailed at times, but with my M3 and a bit of volume the HD650s light up without losing their refinement.

 

[ciphercomplete]

These things have no veil. People either underpower them or just don't like their sound in general.

However, I think that part of this "veil" stuff is actually listener fatigue. The same way you get fatigued listening to bright cans you can get fatigued of the Senn House. After you reach a certain level of fatigue the sound will seem to become thicker and thicker the longer you listen. I experienced this with the HD580 more so than with the HD650 though.

Thats why you should always own at least two pairs of cans.

Just switch out when you get tired of the other. Don't deprive yourself of the wonderful HD650.

 

[ciphercomplete]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob T /img/forum/go_quote.gif I haven't tried the HD650's, but I know I don't want a "veiled" sound either. But I have the AKG 701's, which can be just a tad on the bright side. Would the 650's be going from one extreme to the other?

No, but they are perfect partners IMHO. I don't ever get bored between the two. The K501 is a even better match for the HD650 though.

I think the closest thing to a opposite of the K701 is the HD580.

 

[kelvinz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gradofan2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I completely disagree... All of the "new" versions" I've owned have had no veil... though... the "old versions" did. Perhaps... its your set up.

perhaps... however I had until recently owned a pair of old 650's, my friend has a pair of newer 650's, and I recently bought a brand new pair of 650's for my father for xmas.

They all had the veil, and unless my beta22 is underpowered I'm pretty sure amplification is not the issue, plus I've heard the 650's out of numerous amplifiers/sources at local headfi meets.

 

[Katysax]

The veil is not an overwhelming thing - it is somewhat perceptible. You probably won't even know it unless you also compare them to a high quality headphone of another brand that doesn't have it. I've owned several Sennheisers and I've always found myself preferring other headphones because to me something is missing. But if I never heard an alternative I'd probably never have known it was there.

 

[Gradofan2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kelvinz /img/forum/go_quote.gif perhaps... however I had until recently owned a pair of old 650's, my friend has a pair of newer 650's, and I recently bought a brand new pair of 650's for my father for xmas. They all had the veil, and unless my beta22 is underpowered I'm pretty sure amplification is not the issue, plus I've heard the 650's out of numerous amplifiers/sources at local headfi meets.

Who knows...

... it could be that the units I had... had different driver elements - I don't think Sennheiser is very disciplined in assuring the consistency of the components in their phones (e.g. apparently they insert HD580/600 elements in some HD650s, and vice versa)...

...or... it could be that we define "veil" differently.

The "old" versions had a very clearly discernable "veil," which was a slow, muddy, foggy sound. The "new" versions (I've had) have none of that - though... they are very slightly warmer, richer than other phones... like my AD2000s, or D5000s. But... they are virtually as fast, and bright, and clear, and detailed.

 

[rds]

For what it's worth to my ears the 650s sound the most like high end tower speakers. They have a very powerful and smooth sound, but are also very detailed. When listening to them I feel like I'm listening in some kind of real environment (like a room). On the other hand headphones like the k701s seem to be creating sound within a vacuum (yeah, I know you can't have sound in a vacuum, but the I think you get the idea).
I like both styles, and like someone else said these two headphones compliment each other very well.