[Dionysus]

I have a pair of HD650 I have coming from JR tonight the main reason I purchased them is based on lots of favorable reviews, and frankly a lot of members here swear by them, and I wanted to update my HD595 with my newly purchased Essence STX sound card.

But I was curious about a term that’s frequently used here with regards to the Senn HD650 that term being veiled now a quick peek at the Describing Sound - A Glossary sticky, and this term doesn’t exactly suggest this is a good thing.

So I guess my question is if veiled is not a good thing with regard to the sound from HD650 why are these headphone so highly recommended?

Tonight I will find out first hand how these Phones are compared to the HD595's.

Thanks in advance for replies.

 

[Nocturnal310]

if u have some speakers at home.....try to cover their front with a cloth sheet..and then play them.

this is what is veil.

the sound isnt upfront..its laid back....even if u increase the volume..u ll still not feel intimate with it.

this is what is Veil the way i understand it.


its as if the sound is coming from behind the curtains.

 

[tintin47]

First, the 650s are a huge improvement over the 595s and you will hear it, no problem. You will not be getting even close to the best out of them, though, but that isn't the worst thing in the world.

They will be slightly veiled coming out of anything less than a nice desktop amp. For some reason, lesser amps and the such can't drive the 650 perfectly. I think that they sort of lose control of the bass, which edges out the other frequencies. Either way, IME, they will be somewhat veiled for you coming out of your soundcard, but the nice thing is that the 650s scale very nicely and will only get better with any future upgrades.

The other thing is that some people get veiled confused with dark. When the 650 is amped properly, it is no longer veiled in any way, but I would still classify it as "dark". The detail and highs are all there, but not as brilliant as they are with some cans.

 

[Dionysus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nocturnal310 /img/forum/go_quote.gif if u have some speakers at home.....try to cover their front with a cloth sheet..and then play them. this is what is veil. the sound isnt upfront..its laid back....even if u increase the volume..u ll still not feel intimate with it. this is what is Veil the way i understand it. its as if the sound is coming from behind the curtains.

OK fair enough but......Yet is that a good thing doesn’t sound lick no pun intended 

You follow me? And yet a lot of members here SWEAR by these phone, Look I was intrigued enough to buy them and Ill a/b them against my HD595, and if they don’t sound good to my ears I could always return them.

It will be interesting to find out tonight what all the hype is about which in researching them this term kept coming up which prompted me to make this tread.

 

[Dionysus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tintin47 /img/forum/go_quote.gif First, the 650s are a huge improvement over the 595s and you will hear it, no problem. You will not be getting even close to the best out of them, though, but that isn't the worst thing in the world. They will be slightly veiled coming out of anything less than a nice desktop amp. For some reason, lesser amps and the such can't drive the 650 perfectly. I think that they sort of lose control of the bass, which edges out the other frequencies. Either way, IME, they will be somewhat veiled for you coming out of your soundcard, but the nice thing is that the 650s scale very nicely and will only get better with any future upgrades. The other thing is that some people get veiled confused with dark. When the 650 is amped properly, it is no longer veiled in any way, but I would still classify it as "dark". The detail and highs are all there, but not as brilliant as they are with some cans.

thanks for the reply....do you think that if I play them on my Denon AVR4306 in pure audio mode, which shuts down all the video circuit, and sends the signal unmolested thru my Pioneer BDP51FD which have excellent wolfson DAC's be the best source?

 

[lucky]

Regarding the volume issue, I know some HD650 owners have said they find themselves turning the music up and up because the phone sounds better at high volume levels. This can be a good thing in the sense that the phones are relaxed enough for you to listen to them for long times without fatigue, but it can also be a bad thing in that you feel compelled to drive them louder in search of an excitement that isn't there at normal volumes. YMMV.

 

[scytheavatar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dionysus /img/forum/go_quote.gif So I guess my question is if veiled is not a good thing with regard to the sound from HD650 why are these headphone so highly recommended?

The K701 is too analytical and unmusical. The D5000 has recessed mids and muddy bass. The SR325 is too bright and lacks soundstage. I could go on and on about the bad points of any headphone out there. Does that mean that no one should recommend any headphones, cause there's going to be some sort of weakness in them?

That's why it's important that you find not the best headphones, but the best headphones for you and your listening preferences. I'll recommend you not to stick solely to the Senns and experiment around with the other manufacturers until you can find your favorite headphone.

 

[Dionysus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by scytheavatar /img/forum/go_quote.gif The K701 is too analytical and unmusical. The D5000 has recessed mids and muddy bass. The SR325 is too bright and lacks soundstage. I could go on and on about the bad points of any headphone out there. Does that mean that no one should recommend any headphones, cause there's going to be some sort of weakness in them?

No!!.....I didn’t mean anything like that. I realize you could find fault in anything if you want.

I just meant Veiled was so strong a term reading the glossary sticky, and that it was used so frequently with HD650 that I was more curious about the term and its use, than looking for its faults.
Don’t forget I just purchased them so ill find out first hand. At the end of the day I will make the decision based on what I hear.

But again I wanted to know why it was used so frequently with them nothing else.

 

[scytheavatar]

The veil is part of the Senn house sound, and many people like the HD650 exactly because of the veil, because it protects them from the poorly recorded music and because it makes the music sound smoother and less fatiguing. I am not a fan of this school of though, so I never liked the HD650, but it might be different for you.

 

[Dionysus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by scytheavatar /img/forum/go_quote.gif The veil is part of the Senn house sound, and many people like the HD650 exactly because of the veil, because it protects them from the poorly recorded music and because it makes the music sound smoother and less fatiguing. I am not a fan of this school of though, so I never liked the HD650, but it might be different for you.

Thanks thats what I was looking for.

 

[vvanrij]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dionysus /img/forum/go_quote.gif OK fair enough but......Yet is that a good thing doesn’t sound lick no pun intended  You follow me? And yet a lot of members here SWEAR by these phone, Look I was intrigued enough to buy them and Ill a/b them against my HD595, and if they don’t sound good to my ears I could always return them. It will be interesting to find out tonight what all the hype is about which in researching them this term kept coming up which prompted me to make this tread.

If you'd only know how many people swear by Bose.

 

[Dionysus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vvanrij /img/forum/go_quote.gif If you'd only know how many people swear by Bose.

Yeah.....But we know better

 

[what?]

if you dont like the 650s you wont have any problem selling them,

relax enjoy decide, in 6 months

 

[rwbadley]

Be sure to allow time for burn in, I found after 200 hrs and driven with a good amp they are a very nice 'phone. I thought I might like others better initially, but I come back to the 650 due to they don't drive my old ears to tinnitus like some of the others. Give them time and I think you will like them...

Cheers,

RW

 

[RickEC]

i found no veil in HD650 with my amp, like my K701. However, it is darker, less brilliant than the AKG. Dark phones are quite enjoyable you know? My Grado's are considered bright. I found HD650 jumps to life with good amp.