The Stax Thread III

[eee1111]

If it "came for free", I would gladly accept that as being objectively better.
However, for me, there is an inherent byproduct with this type of "microscopic" presentation. Not only is is even more "directly" revealing, but also lighter, more ethereal, which I consider to be not a good thing on a lot of recordings. I do not like the idea of choosing recordings that are suited to this type of presentation (where musicality plays second fiddle after clarity and detail), it should not work that way, I would rather have less of this for the sake of being less picky.

I guess there was already a big "split" regarding the 007 vs 009, maybe fans of the latter might like this further progression, but I think Stax could do some more tweaking, which is odd to think about, when the price is already this high up.

I also do not know the definition of 'more precise imaging', if for me a stage and imaging in a headphone is always artificial, and it is only subjective which one is more to a listener's taste (depending on how the recording was made, e.g. minimally-miked, multi-channel, etc.)
The separation in the X9000 is certainly even stronger than before. But strong to a point, where it can "slice" the recording to pieces, and that's not a good thing, e.g. not superior in my book.
Same with the speed, faster in the X9000, but is it better? Not necessarily, this lightspeed can feel a bit spiky at times, which is a lot more annoying than having less speed but none of this weirdness.
When listening in complete darkness, the 007 can do several things the X9000 cannot.
Slower meaning less ethereal (which is better for me)
Has less width and air but more depth 3D and cohesiveness
More impact (in the treble as well, not just in bass)
And it has a "defined, more characterful" tone, which is not nearly as dry e.g. not as troublesome to match with other components.
Also works much better at low volumes, e.g. a bit more protective against hearing damage, I found the volume adjustment on the X9000 'more tricky'.
Only the bass is a big flaw to me and a big question mark regarding amping or other possible earpad-related mods (I also do not like the fit very much, although it may get improved soon)
While I cannot point any big particular flaw in the X9000 the same way as I can with the 007, it just sounds weird on a lot of occasions next to it.

Like others have said the x9k isn’t an evolution of the 007 it is it’s own thing. If you gotta compare it than say it’s the next step of the 009. It takes the ability to really dig into recordings and it takes the presentation back a little.

It’s not recessed. The detail is all there. But the presentation has you back a bit. And this is in no way a bad or negative imo.

I’m trying to understand your past couple posts. I disagree with about 40% of what I’m reading. It’s got the speed it’s got bass it’s got the analytic features. The attack and decay of Stax is there. The bass is great on these. I A B them with 007 and there isn’t a decisive winner in the bass department.

Driver is 20% larger than 009. It’s delivering everything effortlessly to these ears.

 

[padam]

Like others have said the x9k isn’t an evolution of the 007 it is it’s own thing. If you gotta compare it than say it’s the next step of the 009. It takes the ability to really dig into recordings and it takes the presentation back a little.

It’s not recessed. The detail is all there. But the presentation has you back a bit. And this is in no way a bad or negative imo.

I’m trying to understand your past couple posts. I disagree with about 40% of what I’m reading. It’s got the speed it’s got bass it’s got the analytic features. The attack and decay of Stax is there. The bass is great on these. I A B them with 007 and there isn’t a decisive winner in the bass department.

Driver is 20% larger than 009. It’s delivering everything effortlessly to these ears.

Just because it is not an evolution it does not mean that it cannot be compared against it directly, especially if it was someone's personal reference before. If it was, then the X9000 is simply an inferior headphone, because it is still far away from it, and the things where it is superior don't matter that much (personally,, I simply can't value more detail if it takes the pleasure away form listening to music rather than analysing it).

It's ok that we don't agree.
I only added my own thoughts, because just like when those youtube videos were released, I didn't like anyone stating a preference and getting response like: "you didn't listen to them enough", "your chain is not good", "not the right type of music", etc. etc.
If you look at other places, you can find enough opinions on that to conclude that people who do not think this headphone is the best thing they've done don't have broken ears, they just observe different things.

Just to put it into a different personal bias perspective, I have this long list of Stax headphones (in chronological order, not the order of preference) which I find more musical, more enjoyable than the X9000 a lot of the times.
I am not saying these are better, I am just saying that it is very surprising to me, that these don't get "owned" by this new flagship, irrespective of how much they cost. And, apart from the Omega, one could collect the whole shebang with cash to spare (for let's a say, a good aftermarket amp) instead of an X9000.

SR-X Mk3
SR-Lambda
SR-Gamma Pro
SR-Sigma Pro
SR-Omega
SR-Lambda Nova Signature
SR-007 Mk1

And these are the ones where I can say I would not choose these over the SR-X9000.
But if we consider how much the Lambda Pro would cost, it is still very good, and I might put them into the other list instead. Lambda Sig is another one that can sound really good and more soulful than some others, but it is objectively very bright.

SR-Lambda Pro
SR-Lambda Signature
SR-404
SR-009
SR-L300 Limited

 

[eee1111]

Just because it is not an evolution it does not mean that it cannot be compared against it directly, especially if it was someone's personal reference before. If it was, then the X9000 is simply an inferior headphone, because it is still far away from it, and the things where it is superior don't matter that much (personally,, I simply can't value more detail if it takes the pleasure away form listening to music rather than analysing it).

It's ok that we don't agree.
I only added my own thoughts, because just like when those youtube videos were released, I didn't like anyone stating a preference and getting response like: "you didn't listen to them enough", "your chain is not good", "not the right type of music", etc. etc.
If you look at other places, you can find enough opinions on that to conclude that people who do not think this headphone is the best thing they've done don't have broken ears, they just observe different things.

Just to put it into a different personal bias perspective, I have this long list of Stax headphones (in chronological order, not the order of preference) which I find more musical, more enjoyable than the X9000 a lot of the times.
I am not saying these are better, I am just saying that it is very surprising to me, that these don't get "owned" by this new flagship, irrespective of how much they cost. And, apart from the Omega, one could collect the whole shebang with cash to spare (for let's a say, a good aftermarket amp) instead of an X9000.

SR-X Mk3
SR-Lambda
SR-Gamma Pro
SR-Sigma Pro
SR-Omega
SR-Lambda Nova Signature
SR-007 Mk1

And these are the ones where I can say I would not choose these over the SR-X9000.
But if we consider how much the Lambda Pro would cost, it is still very good, and I might put them into the other list instead. Lambda Sig is another one that can sound really good and more soulful than some others, but it is objectively very bright.

SR-Lambda Pro
SR-Lambda Signature
SR-404
SR-009
SR-L300 Limited

I got the 007mk1 right here alongside the x9k. I simply don’t agree with a large amount of your opinions.

It’s one thing to dismiss large amounts of opinions. It’s another to say your opinion is superior.

I’m actually extremely happy with the sound of these. They are absolutely top tier and we can thank hifiman for the extreme price. But that’s another topic. Anyone who has a carbon or bhse or Wes will/should love these

 

[padam]

I never suggested that anywhere, I even stated that it is personal bias, which everyone has, and there are other people who agree with me, they just don't add that opinion right here. If I found the X9000 to be superior, I could sell a whole lot else instead. It would be simpler, really.

But this hostility is exactly the type of reaction why it is pointless to share any more of my personal opinions, as it will not lead to a normal, civilised discussion.
And for that reason, I'm out =)

 

[eee1111]

I never suggested that anywhere, I even stated that it is personal bias, which everyone has, and there are other people who agree with me, they just don't add that opinion right here. If I found the X9000 to be superior, I could sell a whole lot else instead. It would be simpler, really.

But this hostility is exactly the type of reaction why it is pointless to share any more of my personal opinions, as it will not lead to a normal, civilised discussion.
And for that reason, I'm out =)

Get those people to write those opinions. Don’t make up phantoms.

Look I’m sorry if I come off mean or hostile because your opinion is negative. I’m trying to understand these opinions when my experience so far has been so drastically different than yours. Just seemed odd to me.

 

[padam]

Why it is even necessary for anyone to "back" their opinions if they are in the minority, that is what annoyed me about labelling that guy in those YT videos. I thought that it is the whole point and not everyone nodding in agreement.

It is just one single opinion that carries no more or less weight than another one and everyone can decide which ones to take into consideration. Full stop.

I just stated all the other models I've used as an insight - or maybe recommendation, if someone listens to this model, or let's say an SR009, does not like it and then assumes that all Staxes (estats, etc.) present sound like this, which is not true.
Does the chain matters? Yes, of course.
Does that provide a completely different experience? I have not noticed this much, only with the 007 and amps, but so far I didn't really change as much as I expected, always very much a 007.
There are definitely some more synergistic pairings that are preferable (or others that simply don't work very well), but I think that it is only the point on that letter i and the headphone is still the defining element. Only exception was vinyl, which definitely sounded a lot different (really brought out the best of a Lambda Signature, it was designed around that era after all).

I may have made a mistake of already trying to research every few opinion that had been written or said before I listened to the X9000, and a handful of those few were already somewhat reserved, and I had set my expectations too high before that with the Omega naming scheme in the product video, etc., I don't know.
Here is the most recent detailed assessment
https://ptthito.com/headphone/m-1648707938-a-cb7/
Again, it's not that it's bad, it just has flaws (like anything else), I would like more involvement, more weight and fullness, a wetter tone, more dependable/less picky, less analytical, etc.

That type "more technical" POV that other people are looking from was already outlined in one of my previous post.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/stax-sr-x9000.959852/post-16780222

On its best moments, with the right type of music, it does sound like that and then it is quite jaw-droppingly amazing, I won't be debating that.

It is just didn't add that there was also a slight bit of irony embedded in all of this, because I also didn't find this "everything dialled up to eleven" sound that fun or natural to listen to with a lot of other music (also my problem with the SR009), and I also don't see the point of buying it and trying to dial it back down again, when that different type of sound is already there in other models.
But of course I didn't add that to avoid generating controversy, labelled as a troll, etc. the usual stuff.

 

[eee1111]

It is just one single opinion that carries no more or less weight than another one and everyone can decide which ones to take into consideration. Full stop.

You’re right

But when people respond and just simply don’t agree and cite how they don’t agree it’s not a big deal and definitely not worth getting all upset. Any response you got was a direct result of people not agreeing. Not because they have an agenda against you.

I’ve written a lot on this site in comparison to other headphones and how I feel about the X9K. I think it’s fair to say I’m very pleased with the sound lol.

I reach for the 007 all the time and just don’t agree with a lot of the opinions you hold.

I love the staging of the x9k

 

[nepherte]

Get those people to write those opinions. Don’t make up phantoms.

One of these ghosts says hi.

 

[number1sixerfan]

It's ok that we don't agree.
I only added my own thoughts, because just like when those youtube videos were released, I didn't like anyone stating a preference and getting response like: "you didn't listen to them enough", "your chain is not good", "not the right type of music", etc. etc.
If you look at other places, you can find enough opinions on that to conclude that people who do not think this headphone is the best thing they've done don't have broken ears, they just observe different things.

On my end, I totally agree with the first statement. I have no problems with your perspective, we just talked through why we think the way we do. Also a lot of your points seem to stem around the more subjective aspects of sound, so I totally expect it simply to come down to preference. But regardless, it doesn't matter how or why, you like what you like.

The only thing I wanted to mention here is regarding the "you didn't listen to them enough". This in my opinion is totally relevant. You see a lot of people that listen to new headphones for two hours (and often in meet conditions) and then make really definitive statements, which is a bit of a mistake. There's a big difference between hearing something for a few hours and having them in house for even a timeframe as short as a week. This is even more important if you're coming from a favorite headphone that is voiced different.

But that's not always possible for people, I get that. But I have seen countless time and time again where these opinions change drastically over even a weeks amount of time as people get better acquainted with the gear. You can see this happening in any one of the summit fi threads as people buy new gear.. and it has nothing to do with the x9000. (but agree that the other two you mentioned are over-indexed)

 

[bigjako]

Happy to report that the surgery on the Eddie Current Electra worked out really well and I'm able to listen to my Lambda NBs on that unit now. Before that amp surgery, my Bottlehead Stat had the best synergy with the NBs but that Electra takes it up a notch - very similar sound signature, but the Electra blows out the soundstage and separation rather significantly. The Stat is still an amazing amp, but it's a little more closed in and intimate. Interestingly, the Stat worked with a wider variety of cans than the Electra. I think to a large degree it's just a question of whether I wanted to be first row/onstage or 10th row. The Stat is a work of art by artists I admire but it's for sale to a better home now.

The ES-1a loses too much on the Electra. It sounds great, don't get me wrong, but when I compare it on either the Carbon or the CCS'd 006t it just loses too much. I don't know why, though I'd read someone on here who said the ES-1a didn't pair well with tubes and that is likely at play. Still, the ES-1a actually worked better on the Stat than it does on the Electra. So my synergistic pairings are now:

• All Lambdas (Pro and Normal Bias): EC Electra. I'm sure the NBs would sound nice on the Carbon, but it's not an option. See below for some thoughts on the L300s (LE and not) on the Carbon.
• ES-1a: Carbon. Honestly, this has got to be one of the top-5 pairings in estat world, in my personal and subjective opinion. I have not heard an X9000 but have heard 007s and 009s on a BHSE multiple times, and this is right there. The transparency, the clarity as well as the slam and sub-bass are TOTL to me. The ES-1a sounded stunted-but-very-musical on the Stat, but on the Electra... it doesn't sound bad, but I'm more aware of what I'm missing than what is still there, if that makes sense. The L300 LE sounds GREAT on the Carbon, but I prefer it on the Electra - the tubes round it out and fills in the gaps, without sacrificing accuracy or transparency. The ES-1a just sounds GREATER. I have a Frankenstein L300 (not LE) with the Socas Padmod and partial blu-tak and that is an interesting combo - it's much heavier in the low end and feels more like a planar (LCD-2C, specifically) which is a lot of fun sometimes. So in other words, the Carbon works well with everything but it makes the ES-1a sing.

I also signed up for the Qobuz/Deezer/Roon trials, with local FLACs, and that's been a major upgrade over streaming. For now I'm riding high, this sh** is near-perfect, but I fear I'll grow accustomed to this lifestyle and start sniffing out 007s soon. I'm also scared to listen to the X9000s for what existential crisis it will spawn, so I think I'll distract myself hunting for a Glenn OTL or a DNA amp for the Aeolus or window shop an Atrium to distract me.

 

[padam]

On my end, I totally agree with the first statement. I have no problems with your perspective, we just talked through why we think the way we do. Also a lot of your points seem to stem around the more subjective aspects of sound, so I totally expect it simply to come down to preference. But regardless, it doesn't matter how or why, you like what you like.

The only thing I wanted to mention here is regarding the "you didn't listen to them enough". This in my opinion is totally relevant. You see a lot of people that listen to new headphones for two hours (and often in meet conditions) and then make really definitive statements, which is a bit of a mistake. There's a big difference between hearing something for a few hours and having them in house for even a timeframe as short as a week. This is even more important if you're coming from a favorite headphone that is voiced different.

But that's not always possible for people, I get that. But I have seen countless time and time again where these opinions change drastically over even a weeks amount of time as people get better acquainted with the gear. You can see this happening in any one of the summit fi threads as people buy new gear.. and it has nothing to do with the x9000. (but agree that the other two you mentioned are over-indexed)

To be honest, I don't understand while those other points can be considered "objective."

If you only emphasise strengths and only have a "slight touch" on weaknesses (which is how most audio reviews are written to make you want that product, obviously), that is simply less useful information. I know the good points of the X9000 (and have read about the CRBN etc.) and I can find those opinions way more easily than any negative ones due to enthusiastic, positive nature that almost anybody likes more.
It's just what people want to hear who are interested in purchasing the product and feel happy, or make people less annoyed that own the product and get triggered if anything negative is pointed out, then it is "only subjective".
I've listed the group of headphones that I find more musically involving that's somehow missing from the X9000 a lot of the times, the technical (objective?) differences became less important to me (big soundstage, firm separation is different. not better. imho). Or I would say it presents itself in an odd way depending on the recording, just because it is more revealing yet smoothened out, it does not mean more pleasing or more natural. And the exact reason why I shared that list is because I compared several times. If I just listened to the X9000 I might have said:

because I would just get accustomed to it (that's not true for a few things that immediately found odd on first listen, with those previous opinions unfortunately already in mind, it didn't really grab me, only managed to do it occasionally, while others manage grab me, because they have a particular character that I find appealing and at least they have a definable character). Maybe it's different for other people but listening to music and comparisons are just not the same thing and it can actually be quite detrimental to the experience, when I listen to a particular track and I had this feeling that "ok ok, but I feel it might sound a bit wrong next to the other" and after I did that switch, my "fears" were unfortunately confirmed.

So while I have these headphones that I own and (mostly) love, it does not mean I could not deliver a Michael Scott one line review, and

each and every one of them, and hopefully, over time that will help to minimize and improve the setup. If anyone can do that on a chain he considers as "perfect", he or she can judge more objectively than others, despite personal bias.

Although it can be a weird feeling to know let's say it's a chain costing five-figures that you have spent so much of your time, energy and money to meticulously change and tweak for years, decades, and yet it still sucks in some ways. So you would rather "be a ghost" that quietly posts in the classifieds after hyping it up rather than post about the reasons, be the "negative person" and get potentially attacked for it by people who don't agree with you. It's pointless self burn.

It would be so much simpler to just read recommendations/reviews, buy that one, love it at first sight, stop looking at other options, even quit forums completely (probably the most important point that many people have already done) and live happily ever after. (Small point about these new products is that constant never ending possibility of an improved follow-up model that is "better", and then the previous one getting judged differently immediately and slashing in value - luckily they can't even fulfil pre-orders at the moment). But marriage isn't that simple either - at least you can get as many headphones and change them as much you want and have arguments about them for as long as you exist .

 

[droido256]

Question, the L-700 mk2 I have, on the outside of the stator is this star shaped structure, with a hexagonal ring in the center that isn’t present on the L-300……. What is it? Decoration? Support structure? Part of the sound generation? Just curious.

 

[martin778]

Looks like something to add extra rigidity.

 

[martin778]

I also signed up for the Qobuz/Deezer/Roon trials, with local FLACs, and that's been a major upgrade over streaming. For now I'm riding high, this sh** is near-perfect, but I fear I'll grow accustomed to this lifestyle and start sniffing out 007s soon. I'm also scared to listen to the X9000s for what existential crisis it will spawn, so I think I'll distract myself hunting for a Glenn OTL or a DNA amp for the Aeolus or window shop an Atrium to distract me.

I'm too lazy for this, just ordering the T8000 and looking for X9000's. Then I can at least know there is no further upgrade path available

Do you guys have any tips for quickly swapping HP's / cables between the amp and source? I suppose the SRM won't like unplugging the cables when it's on, not wanting to blow up the input stage.

 

[number1sixerfan]

To be honest, I don't understand while those other points can be considered "objective."

If you only emphasise strengths and only have a "slight touch" on weaknesses (which is how most audio reviews are written to make you want that product, obviously), that is simply less useful information. I know the good points of the X9000 (and have read about the CRBN etc.) and I can find those opinions way more easily than any negative ones due to enthusiastic, positive nature that almost anybody likes more.
It's just what people want to hear who are interested in purchasing the product and feel happy, or make people less annoyed that own the product and get triggered if anything negative is pointed out, then it is "only subjective".
I've listed the group of headphones that I find more musically involving that's somehow missing from the X9000 a lot of the times, the technical (objective?) differences became less important to me (big soundstage, firm separation is different. not better. imho). Or I would say it presents itself in an odd way depending on the recording, just because it is more revealing yet smoothened out, it does not mean more pleasing or more natural. And the exact reason why I shared that list is because I compared several times. If I just listened to the X9000 I might have said:

I just mean that there are certain aspects of the music that are totally preferential. Every headphone is either bright or warm to a degree or neutral--whether you prefer one of the three is totally preferential. Same thing for forwardness/positioning. In comparison, resolution, expansive soundstaging, imaging and layering, strong bass performance etc. are all a bit less subjective. Again, we don't have agree, but there has to be some reasonable baseline in which we compare headphones or else none of the conversation matters.

I don't argue that headphones are "better" due to tonality, presentation, forwardness (or lackthereof) because it will just totally come down to the user. But many prefer headphones that are better in the technical categories than others (except for extremes like the 009 which leans a bit too heavy analytically, which steers some ppl away)--and i have certainly found this to be true in Summit-Fi.

The reason you don't hear much negativity about the x9000 is because it performs better (doesn't have glaring weaknesses and has higher technical capability) than most headphones out there. The same is true for the HFM Shangri-La Sr. For me it has absolutely nothing to do with post-purchase rationalization (bias)--I think my impressions on the LCD-5, which costs nearly as much is a reference here (also, we have to acknowledge that bias is a two way street, it impacts people impressions and POVs that haven't and would prefer not to spend extra money on gear as well). But I have no problem with your impressions and they may be very relevant for other users coming from the 007. We simply disagree when it comes to whether or not the x9000 is better, and that's ok lol