[goldwerger]

How do you guys find the 009s and X9000 compare to the 007mk1? I recently got the latter with a Carbon (Mjolnir) which I love. I wonder what the difference qualitatively might be..

 

[number1sixerfan]

Maybe initially concerning because it is DIFFERENT from what the 009S is. Different can mean just as good - and it also can be better. The important thing is that it Is not worse. That is why I think one will want to keep both the 009S and X9000.

I still have a lot of listening to do as I am at the very beginning (even though my pair arrived in November).

Then again for me all things will change once I start listening with the T2 in place of my Carbon. The T2 definitely changed my 009S when I demoed

Appreciate the insight. I'm not concerned because it's different though, I'm expecting that. Recessed mids are particularly a problem for me, that's why I wonder and ask. It's been a bit hard to get clarity on this. But the post prior is helpful and the fact that so many, like yourself, love it the way you do is pretty encouraging.

 

[eskamobob1]

Appreciate the insight. I'm not concerned because it's different though, I'm expecting that. Recessed mids are particularly a problem for me, that's why I wonder and ask. It's been a bit hard to get clarity on this. But the post prior is helpful and the fact that so many, like yourself, love it the way you do is pretty encouraging.

Tbh, I kinda feel like a stax focused thread is one of the worst places you can possibly ask about recessed vocals. I find more variation in the definition of whats recessed from stax folks than basically anywhere else. Ive seen a few people call 009(non-s) vocals lush and vivid in love lorn reviews and I think they are light and body less even compared to something like susvara which already has (in my mind) fairly neutral vocal weighting. Certainly not lush like HE60 or LCD-R. Meanwhile I've also seen people call 009S vocals massively recessed (well textured but recessed) and as a mid head I honestly quite enjoy the body 009S has on its vocals. Maybe amps play a role in these impressions more so than on tradional transducers but thats even further highlights that the answers just seem to be all over the place tbh

 

[BTD1]

It has been implied that as regards to Stax headphones and e-stats in general, the amplifier has a greater role in shaping or even changing the sound than would be the case with planar or dynamic headphones. Being new to e-stats, I would like to understand why this is the case, especially considering the price of TOTL e-stat amplifiers. Is there a set of rules or guidelines to consider when making such a significant investment in equipment? I don't want to buy, sell, repeat. I'd like to get it right the first time. Several names commonly show up in these forums, such as Mjolnir, Kevin Gilmore, Blue Hawaii, Stax, etc. Any guidance would be helpful.

 

[number1sixerfan]

Tbh, I kinda feel like a stax focused thread is one of the worst places you can possibly ask about recessed vocals. I find more variation in the definition of whats recessed from stax folks than basically anywhere else. Ive seen a few people call 009(non-s) vocals lush and vivid in love lorn reviews and I think they are light and body less even compared to something like susvara which already has (in my mind) fairly neutral vocal weighting. Certainly not lush like HE60 or LCD-R. Meanwhile I've also seen people call 009S vocals massively recessed (well textured but recessed) and as a mid head I honestly quite enjoy the body 009S has on its vocals. Maybe amps play a role in these impressions more so than on tradional transducers but thats even further highlights that the answers just seem to be all over the place tbh

I think we're talking about a few different things here. I would agree with others, vocals on the 009 are quite vivid and lush, although its overall sound is a bit more lean/brighter in nature than say the Susvara. But I enjoy vocals on the 009 more than I do the Susvara, although with those two headphones its just a toss up with personal preference in a lot of ways (for example, somebody that prefers a bit of warmth may prefer vocals on the Sus). However, in any case, vocals on the 009 are certainly front and center and not at all recessed. The HE60 and LCD-R are also both forward, as with the 009. I haven't heard the S version, but I would be surprised if that's not the case with them as well. Amps definitely do make a huge difference with stats, probably more so than with planars/dynamics imo.

Recession to me is when parts of the music are positioned behind where they should be, vocals, instruments, etc. I too am a midrange fanatic, and that's why recessed mids irk me so much.

 

[eee1111]

It has been implied that as regards to Stax headphones and e-stats in general, the amplifier has a greater role in shaping or even changing the sound than would be the case with planar or dynamic headphones. Being new to e-stats, I would like to understand why this is the case, especially considering the price of TOTL e-stat amplifiers. Is there a set of rules or guidelines to consider when making such a significant investment in equipment? I don't want to buy, sell, repeat. I'd like to get it right the first time. Several names commonly show up in these forums, such as Mjolnir, Kevin Gilmore, Blue Hawaii, Stax, etc. Any guidance would be helpful.

Search

There is a crazy amount of info on this

 

[eskamobob1]

I think we're talking about a few different things here. I would agree with others, vocals on the 009 are quite vivid and lush, although its overall sound is a bit more lean/brighter in nature than say the Susvara. But I enjoy vocals on the 009 more than I do the Susvara, although with those two headphones its just a toss up with personal preference in a lot of ways (for example, somebody that prefers a bit of warmth may prefer vocals on the Sus). However, in any case, vocals on the 009 are certainly front and center and not at all recessed. The HE60 and LCD-R are also both forward, as with the 009. I haven't heard the S version, but I would be surprised if that's not the case with them as well. Amps definitely do make a huge difference with stats, probably more so than with planars/dynamics imo.

Recession to me is when parts of the music are positioned behind where they should be, vocals, instruments, etc. I too am a midrange fanatic, and that's why recessed mids irk me so much.

We were indeed talking about different things then. I thought the vocal placement on the 009 was fine. I found them tonally recessed (lacking body is close to what I mean by not quite there, they just felt kinda flat) and often washed out if laid over a part of the track with decent treble energy (the opposite problem from a lot of mid-fi bass cannons ). Just FWIW I think the 009S have better mid texture/body from my experiences. I also like the over all tonal balance better and the added bass obviously lends to a classically meatier/warmer tonality over all compared to the non-s which I found could get kind thin. Just for disclosure, while I have head both on other enegizers, almost all of my tax time has been dave+blue -> BHSE with some NOS tubes that area bit on the warmer side

 

[number1sixerfan]

We were indeed talking about different things then. I thought the vocal placement on the 009 was fine. I found them tonally recessed (lacking body is close to what I mean by not quite there, they just felt kinda flat) and often washed out if laid over a part of the track with decent treble energy (the opposite problem from a lot of mid-fi bass cannons ). Just FWIW I think the 009S have better mid texture/body from my experiences. I also like the over all tonal balance better and the added bass obviously lends to a classically meatier/warmer tonality over all compared to the non-s which I found could get kind thin. Just for disclosure, while I have head both on other enegizers, almost all of my tax time has been dave+blue -> BHSE with some NOS tubes that area bit on the warmer side

From everything I've read, the 009s does seem like a slight upgrade. But the differences don't seem large enough to entertain trying to upgrade. I bought the non-S version from someone that owned both and mentioned that the differences are slight in nature. He also said each had their pros. Because of that, I just haven't ever had an urge to try the 009s (money wise only, would love to hear them), even though I do suspect it may be a bit better. If someone wanted to trade, I'd do that, but I don't see that ever happening lol.

BHSE is really good with the 009. I have a mini T2 prototype here and for whatever reason it sounds perfect with the 009, better than I've ever heard it and more so than other pairings with it. But certainly the BHSE is more than capable.

 

[eskamobob1]

I bought the non-S version from someone that owned both and mentioned that the differences are slight in nature. He also said each had their pros.

I agree with that. TBH I can 100% see people that like a more classic stax sound prefering the non-S

Because of that, I just haven't ever had an urge to try the 009s (money wise only, would love to hear them), even though I do suspect it may be a bit better.

Im not even sure its an "upgrade". Its more of just 009 with slightly different tonality. I mostly bring it up because if someone heard the 009 and was not a fan that does not mean they wont like 009S. If you are happy with the 009 there is no reason to upgrade at all (plus not like you dont have enough gear with more standard tunings to play with when you want that anyways )

BHSE is really good with the 009. I have a mini T2 prototype here and for whatever reason it sounds perfect with the 009, better than I've ever heard it and more so than other pairings with it. But certainly the BHSE is more than capable.

I am quite excited to see your mini-T2 vs T2 comparo once it arrives/you get a chance. I am very very curious whether there is some magic missing that just cant be had with the annoyingly hard to find NOS components (or maybe the crazy HV rails all over the place the T2 uses)

 

[number1sixerfan]

I agree with that. TBH I can 100% see people that like a more classic stax sound prefering the non-S

Im not even sure its an "upgrade". Its more of just 009 with slightly different tonality. I mostly bring it up because if someone heard the 009 and was not a fan that does not mean they wont like 009S. If you are happy with the 009 there is no reason to upgrade at all (plus not like you dont have enough gear with more standard tunings to play with when you want that anyways )

Makes sense and that's good insight. I still really would like to hear them, I just don't see a way that I'll ever get to lol

I am quite excited to see your mini-T2 vs T2 comparo once it arrives/you get a chance. I am very very curious whether there is some magic missing that just cant be had with the annoyingly hard to find NOS components (or maybe the crazy HV rails all over the place the T2 uses)

I can't wait. I'll definitely have the chance to compare both side to side. I'm hoping I have my BHSE back by then as well, but not sure that I will. Will absolutely report back!

 

[eskamobob1]

Makes sense and that's good insight. I still really would like to hear them, I just don't see a way that I'll ever get to lol

Are there no shops in your area that carry a stax demo? Tbh, I have a large number of 2 channel dealers in my area that also have an 009S rig on demo. Its nearly 10x easier to find those than it is conventional transducer headphone demos for me tbh

 

[buzzlulu]

Recession to me is when parts of the music are positioned behind where they should be, vocals, instruments, etc.

To me as well.

With the 009S the vocals (for me) are forward front and center. My early impression of the X9000 is of the vocals on the SAME horizontal line as everything else - nor recessed. Perhaps that is why some have said the X9000 puts you center, a few rows back in the audience, rather than on the stage like with the 009S

 

[goldwerger]

How do you guys find the 009s and X9000 compare to the 007mk1? I recently got the latter with a Carbon (Mjolnir) which I love. I wonder what the difference qualitatively might be..

FWIW (not sure) came across this vid comparing the 007mk1 and X9000. Sharing in case of interest:

 

[buzzlulu]

It has been implied that as regards to Stax headphones and e-stats in general, the amplifier has a greater role in shaping or even changing the sound than would be the case with planar or dynamic headphones. Being new to e-stats, I would like to understand why this is the case, especially considering the price of TOTL e-stat amplifiers. Is there a set of rules or guidelines to consider when making such a significant investment in equipment? I don't want to buy, sell, repeat. I'd like to get it right the first time. Several names commonly show up in these forums, such as Mjolnir, Kevin Gilmore, Blue Hawaii, Stax, etc. Any guidance would be helpful.

Stax recommends their totl T8000 amplifier for their totl 009S and X9000.
The Mjolnir Carbon is the same price or even slightly less. The performance difference is night and day.
A lower priced KGSSHV most likely runs rings around the T8000

 

[arnaud]

Hi everyone, newcomer to the forum and the hobby.

After a lifetime of playing and collecting music, but without putting money on Hifi equipment, I decided to get myself a high-end headphone set.

I have been educating myself for a couple of months online about this world, and yesterday was the first day I went to try headphones. Luckily I live in a country that have great shops with a good selection of them. The people of the two stores I visited was super helpful. I could try all the headphones comfortably with my music ( a mix of rock, metal, pop, classical, jazz, blues and folk that I made with this purpose) and for all the time I wanted, no interruptions.

I made two stops.

In the first shop I tried the Abyss 1266 Phi TC, Audece LCD-5, Focal Utopia, and Meze Elite. The amp for all headphones was the Formula S from XI audio, and the DAC the Chord Dave. These were my PERSONAL impressions:

-Abyss: Bass was amazing, the best one I heard all day. You can feel in your body like if you were using speakers (that was a surprise). The spacing and soundstage were great, the timber of all instruments very natural. Almost everything was great BUT in some of the pieces I played I found that certain parts that should be prominent became recessed in the mix (normally lead voices, or instrument in the mids section), making the songs sound weird. I found this defect in enough tracks to be bothersome.

-Audece LCD-5: Bass was great but I didn’t like the soundstage (every sound seemed to came from inside my head, too close) and the timber of the instruments was not natural at all, especially on guitars.

-Focal Utopia: Timber of all instruments sounded very natural, but I didn’t like them very much. Music seemed to lack energy with them. Just the opposite of the Audece, everything sounded too far.

-Meze Elite: a nice surprise, since I wasn’t aware of their existence, and I found that they did everything quite good. Timber, Bass-Midi-Treble, spacing, soundstage… everything was good and nice. But nothing truly outstanding or superb (like the Bass or the soundstage with the Abyss)


The construction of all 4 was amazing. Very very high quality on all the parts.

But to be honest I walked out of the first shop a little disappointed. What I heard, to me it’s not worth the price of admission, and I think I can do better with a good chosen speaker system that would cost the same of any of the headphones.

Second stop: STAX retailer.

They had the 009s, the new X9000 (only the one for audition, not examples to sell for at least another month), the 007 mkII and a bunch of older ones for audition. Only Stax amps, but with good variety. Apart from the 700s, they had all the rest of the current Stax offering.

So I choose the T8000 as an amp, and reproduced the music through a PS Audio Direct Stream DAC.

After 30 seconds of listening to the 009s, I knew why you guys are referred as a cult. In 30 seconds I have completely forgotten all previous headphones I tried during the morning and knew that it’s going to be a Stax. That’s it. This things sound celestial to my ears, it’s really something else. I really wasn’t expecting something as great like this. Pure Bliss.

I only tried the 009s and the X9000, but since I know the new ones aren’t widely available yet, I think you might like to read a small comparison.

Construction wise, I found the X9000 to be much better. Every part was made with good steel, no cheap plastic parts apart from two small pieces used to adjust the height of the headphones (not the whole pieces, only the part you have to press). It’s way prettier in real life that in photos. The 009s in comparison, although good looking, seemed somewhat “cheap” because all the plastic parts used (the cheaper feeling of all the headphones I tried during the day).


Sound-wise, both earphones sounded AMAZING to me. Timber:10, soundstage:10, spacing:10, on both.

The 009s is kind of light in bass, but that allows to discern a lot of details of the meds and treble parts of the music without any effort. Music doesn’t sound busy at all with this one even with full orchestras. I would say Highs 10, Meds 9, Bass 7 resolution 10. Very ethereal sounding, I just loved them.

The X9000 has much more bass (sorry I didn’t tried the 007 for bass comparison, but I was mesmerized with he two I was already using) which changes the character of the headphone. It’s a harder to drive earphone than the 009s, you need to turn up more the volume. Things seems to have more weight to them in this one, and that seems to rest just a little bit of resolution in the highs. Just a tiny bit. Bass 9, Meds 9, High 9, Resolution 9. Also heavenly sounding.

If I were to buy only one, right now I think I would go for the X9000, because the construction is that much nicer, and overall I might prefer how it sounds. But that’s not the plan.

The new plan is to get both, and the amp. I might need to save money for a little more time, but I don’t care.

About the amp, I found the T8000 fantastic. I have read a lot about the BHSE, the Carbon the HGSSHV, T2 etc, and how Stax amps fall short in comparison, but to be honest, I wont buy anything of that price without trying first when I have available an option I have tested and that sounds this incredible. I loved that it allows to connect both headphones at the same time, so I would be able make listening sessions with a friend or with my girl.

Stax earphones definitely make the cost of admission worth it. The music was presented to me like I have never heard in my whole life. They have floored me, I have seen the light, and now I’m a convert.

What I heard yesterday was lovely. Simply perfect.

Amazing, you arrived in 1 day to conclusions it took some of us years or decade to come to . For many, it’s not about the end but the journey on this forum, seems like you’ll settle quickly though! For amps, don’t think the journey ends at the stax offering, there really is a world beyond (esp. for 009/x9k type transducers).

Am in total agreement with you regarding the poor price/performance ratio of some headphone rigs, I’m so happy to be back with speakers these days . I surely wouldn’t mind an x9k with a carbon but am not psychologically ready to pay 6x the price of my speakers for something that still images nowhere near as good as a proper neardfield speaker setup does.

As for the concern on x9k recessed imaging, it’s the same old with headphones, the voicing among over things affects perceived width and depth. I’ve spent too little time with x9k but, it did sound more realistic in staging than the 009. I agree though the 009 has its charm in other areas such as « bite » and midrange presence. To be more exact, the x9k just lacked dynamics / drive out of the t8000 amp, to the point I told the stax sales director they now need to rework their amps . I can imagine a carbon or bhse (or a kerry commissioned diy t2 since cash flow doesn’t appear to be a concern for you from my guess ) would be the ultimate rig to log off the forum and come back again in 10 years…

arnaud