[kylev]

My GG and Carbon finally came. Thanks @soren_brix for making this happen.

Beautiful setup you have there!

I think it has been a week right since you listened to both Carbon and KGGG?
Keen to share your impressions please to compare Carbon and KGGG?

I love Carbon so far with my 009 and Gumby. Gumby is a bit warm hence although Carbon is solid state, it just feels right and sound bit tubey to my ear and the bass is amazing with Carbon!
Some says that 009 pairs better with tube, but when I tried it with BHSE last time, I feel that it is somehow bit slower sounding and more intimate compare to Carbon.

Does KGGG also sound similar to BHSE in case you have heard one?

 

[astrostar59]

Hi JimL, thanks for that detailed information. My ideal for this amp would be less tubes, no speaker option and only Stats if was a top tier Stat amp to take on the best there is. At the moment it is too complex, too hot and to many tubes, plus trying to do too many things.

Having said all this, it is the best I have heard the 009s to date, my preferred signature. Is there a KG amp that has 'all tube' gain stage, maybe the Megatron? It is the old subject it seems, to my ears, albeit my tastes and opinion, tube gain stages do sound very good (if done well of course). Even on speaker setups at Munich HiEnd, I am struggling to name an SS amp based system that equaled the medium to best tube based ones. Huge generalisations, and we have had this conversation before on here and the other place, but that seems my view, to my ears. Pity, I actually prefer running SS, less hassle, more practical etc.

I can feel the draw of a big SET amp with a decent HP output as well, it is dragging me towards it, no escape..... damb. TBH budgets hold me back on that for now. Until them my SS Plinius on full Class A setting (gets hot) sounds close, but but....

 

[astrostar59]

Beautiful setup you have there!

I think it has been a week right since you listened to both Carbon and KGGG?
Keen to share your impressions please to compare Carbon and KGGG?

I love Carbon so far with my 009 and Gumby. Gumby is a bit warm hence although Carbon is solid state, it just feels right and sound bit tubey to my ear and the bass is amazing with Carbon!
Some says that 009 pairs better with tube, but when I tried it with BHSE last time, I feel that it is somehow bit slower sounding and more intimate compare to Carbon.

Does KGGG also sound similar to BHSE in case you have heard one?

My impressions on the BHSE v Carbon (later bigger PS and extra 15v boards) is they are v close, some say one or the other is best. With the right tubes for your system, the BHSE may have the edge re realistic timbre, the Carbon bit faster and stronger bass and bass detail. The ability to run warmer tubes in the BHSE is a great thing for the 009s IMO. With the 007s the BHSE with stock tubes probably is fine, bit more treble detail to push the slower and darker 007s. My thoughts and others MMV.

 

[powertoold]

Wasn't the original T2 able to do something like +/- 680v?

Correction: 630v

 

[JimL11]

Hi JimL, thanks for that detailed information. My ideal for this amp would be less tubes, no speaker option and only Stats if was a top tier Stat amp to take on the best there is. At the moment it is too complex, too hot and to many tubes, plus trying to do too many things.

Having said all this, it is the best I have heard the 009s to date, my preferred signature. Is there a KG amp that has 'all tube' gain stage, maybe the Megatron? It is the old subject it seems, to my ears, albeit my tastes and opinion, tube gain stages do sound very good (if done well of course).

For all or mostly tube stat amps, AFAIK the options are:

DIY or commission a builder:

SRX-Plus - 6SN7GTB outputs, inexpensive, close to BHSE level sound quality, a friend who has heard both says the BHSE is more controlled, the SRX Plus more free-flowing, only uses 60 watts vs 180 for BHSE. Ali-Pacha has posted some subjective comments on Head-Fi and elsewhere. Blueman2 and sorrodje have also posted subjective comments elsewhere.

Megatron - BHSE level, generates 40 watts more heat due to eight EL34 tubes vs. four EL34 tubes. There is a Megatron thread elsewhere on Head-Fi.

Frank Cooter SE 845 amp - he has published the schematics. 76 input tube (can substitute a 6P5), triode connected 6V6 driver, 845 output. Needs custom transformers for driver and output stage.

Note that these could be classified as hybrid because they all use solid state constant current sources, however I consider them tube amps because all the active amplification devices are tubes. An ideal constant current source would have no signal current passing through it, so should have no effect on the sound. Since there is no such thing as an ideal current source, there is likely to be some effect but it should be small compared to the effect of the tube amplification.


Commercial:

Woo 3ES - new, $7650 and up. Possible concerns include bodged bias supplies based on previous Woo amps, likely passive PS, 300B outputs so likely less voltage output compared to even a 6SN7GTB based output amp unless they are using a low ratio step-up output transformer (Woo won't say, "proprietary" technology)

Viva Audio showed a new electrostatic headphone amp at NYC CanJam, > $10,000, IIRC 845 SET with transformer outputs, not yet on their website however

HeadAmp - Aristaeus $4000. Coming out with a new tube electrostatic headphone amp using 20B DHT tubes, expected to be $10,000 or more.

HiFiMan Sr. - uses 300B outputs so less voltage output than 6SN7GTB outputs. Absurdly expensive.

 

[JimL11]

Wasn't the original T2 able to do something like +/- 680v?

Correction: 630v

The original T2 was rated as 630V RMS at 1 kHz, which is 1780+ volts peak-to-peak. Compared to 2000 volts peak-to-peak that is 1 dB less. As mentioned above, the theoretical maximum is 4 times the B+ voltage or twice the B+ plus B- voltage. This is assuming that the output devices are able to swing all the way to the rails (or ground). In reality they don't quite make it. Also, distortion goes up significantly as they approach the limits, so the actual output will always be less, especially if you take distortion into account. However, using the power supply rails to estimate maximum output is a useful approximation.

 

[oneguy]

Beautiful setup you have there!

I think it has been a week right since you listened to both Carbon and KGGG?
Keen to share your impressions please to compare Carbon and KGGG?

I love Carbon so far with my 009 and Gumby. Gumby is a bit warm hence although Carbon is solid state, it just feels right and sound bit tubey to my ear and the bass is amazing with Carbon!
Some says that 009 pairs better with tube, but when I tried it with BHSE last time, I feel that it is somehow bit slower sounding and more intimate compare to Carbon.

Does KGGG also sound similar to BHSE in case you have heard one?

Unfortunately I only had 3 nights with the amps before leaving on a 2 week vacation so these impressions as preliminary. Also, I only have an L700 so extrapolate what you will from this for a 009.

Carbon vs GG:
The Carbon has the edge over the GG in precision. To explain what I mean by “precision” I mean quick, sharply defined notes and more surgical (clinical). Precision like one would think of in the HD800 sense. The Carbon also has an brighter emphasis. In contrast the GG is moral musical (maybe sensual is a better word?) and less clinical, not that being clinical is a bad thing given the situation. The GG has more of a tilt towards the mids. For bass the Carbon meets you with quick and right impact. The decay is similar to the leading edge. The GG smooths it out a bit. I feel they are both one the same level for instrument separation although the Carbon may give the impression of better separation due to sounding more clinical.

I didn’t pay alot of attention to soundstage width because to my ears the L700 don’t have a particularly wide sound so there is only so much an amp can do to fix that

GG vs KGST:
The GG is better across the board as one would expect given the designs. The KGST isn’t a slouch though for the price range you find them at. The KGST instrument separation was no where near the GG. Both had the classic tube sound that I have come to find out that I like (at least with the L700). I’ll have to give more time to back to back KGST and GG comparisons as my main focus before I left were the new amps.

GG vs BHSE:
I have heard the BHSE but unfortunately it wasn’t through an L700 so I feel like it would an apples and oranges comparison. I heard the BHSE through the 009 which I didn’t care for at all but I find the same issue with the 009 through Stax amps too so I feel like it’s the headphones fault. I have also heard the Voce through the BHSE. The problems I have with that combination were at the opposite end of the spectrum with a very heavy emphasis on the lose frequencies and very little sound up top.

I’ll have more to share when I get back home in June. I’m also hoping to have some other e-stat enthusiasts over to compare other amp/headphone combinations in June.

 

[kylev]

My impressions on the BHSE v Carbon (later bigger PS and extra 15v boards) is they are v close, some say one or the other is best. With the right tubes for your system, the BHSE may have the edge re realistic timbre, the Carbon bit faster and stronger bass and bass detail. The ability to run warmer tubes in the BHSE is a great thing for the 009s IMO. With the 007s the BHSE with stock tubes probably is fine, bit more treble detail to push the slower and darker 007s. My thoughts and others MMV.

Thanks for sharing your impression as well. Yes, Carbon brings out better textured bass for 009 and I really like bass in 009 with Carbon, it has big impact.
I am also enjoying this Carbon with bass port modded 007 MKII (SZ3 model), although somehow I feel 009 is something I prefer more due to its comfort, and perhaps its analytical sound signature coming from HD800 background

 

[kylev]

Unfortunately I only had 3 nights with the amps before leaving on a 2 week vacation so these impressions as preliminary. Also, I only have an L700 so extrapolate what you will from this for a 009.

Carbon vs GG:
The Carbon has the edge over the GG in precision. To explain what I mean by “precision” I mean quick, sharply defined notes and more surgical (clinical). Precision like one would think of in the HD800 sense. The Carbon also has an brighter emphasis. In contrast the GG is moral musical (maybe sensual is a better word?) and less clinical, not that being clinical is a bad thing given the situation. The GG has more of a tilt towards the mids. For bass the Carbon meets you with quick and right impact. The decay is similar to the leading edge. The GG smooths it out a bit. I feel they are both one the same level for instrument separation although the Carbon may give the impression of better separation due to sounding more clinical.

I didn’t pay alot of attention to soundstage width because to my ears the L700 don’t have a particularly wide sound so there is only so much an amp can do to fix that

GG vs KGST:
The GG is better across the board as one would expect given the designs. The KGST isn’t a slouch though for the price range you find them at. The KGST instrument separation was no where near the GG. Both had the classic tube sound that I have come to find out that I like (at least with the L700). I’ll have to give more time to back to back KGST and GG comparisons as my main focus before I left were the new amps.

GG vs BHSE:
I have heard the BHSE but unfortunately it wasn’t through an L700 so I feel like it would an apples and oranges comparison. I heard the BHSE through the 009 which I didn’t care for at all but I find the same issue with the 009 through Stax amps too so I feel like it’s the headphones fault. I have also heard the Voce through the BHSE. The problems I have with that combination were at the opposite end of the spectrum with a very heavy emphasis on the lose frequencies and very little sound up top.

I’ll have more to share when I get back home in June. I’m also hoping to have some other e-stat enthusiasts over to compare other amp/headphone combinations in June.

Thank you very much @oneguy for your preliminary assessment, especially while you are away during your vacation, appreciate that!

I was about to order KGGG as well, but reading your impressions on it, I think I will stick with Carbon for now, since I am really enjoying it anyway with both my 009 and 007.
There is one thing I crave more to enhance in my system is to improve its soundstage, it does have great soundstage now, but I think I need more width and spacious.

I am not sure if upgrading the DAC will improve its soundstage (?). Heard many good reviews about Holo Audio Spring Level 3 KTE in which some says it shall widen the soundstage better.
But I haven't come across anyone comparing it with Gumby or using it in their electrostatic / stax setup.

Perhaps anyone has listened to Holo Audio KTE (Level 3) with KG amps?

 

[joseph69]

Perhaps anyone has listened to Holo Audio KTE (Level 3) with KG amps?

Had the PS Audio Perfectwave DAC-ll w/Bridge-ll feeding the BHSE 009/007Mkll, switched over to the KTE Holo Spring DAC and never looked back, or any further.

 

[Rossliew]

Thank you very much @oneguy for your preliminary assessment, especially while you are away during your vacation, appreciate that!

I was about to order KGGG as well, but reading your impressions on it, I think I will stick with Carbon for now, since I am really enjoying it anyway with both my 009 and 007.
There is one thing I crave more to enhance in my system is to improve its soundstage, it does have great soundstage now, but I think I need more width and spacious.

I am not sure if upgrading the DAC will improve its soundstage (?). Heard many good reviews about Holo Audio Spring Level 3 KTE in which some says it shall widen the soundstage better.
But I haven't come across anyone comparing it with Gumby or using it in their electrostatic / stax setup.

Perhaps anyone has listened to Holo Audio KTE (Level 3) with KG amps?

Cables play a part as well. I've had good experience with Audioquest elements cables. YMMV

 

[Eich1eeF]

I've just ordered a 727, and I hope it'll arrive by the end of the week. Concerning the gain mod (i.e. replacing R5 and R6 with 200ohm parts):

Are there any sonic benefits, or is this just for consistency in case one owns multiple Stax amps? If I perform this mod, I'd like to use the same size of MELF resistor for the replacement. Does anyone know what size, power rating etc. would be the right choice?

Another question: a friend of mine owns a SRM-310 with a scratchy volume potentiometer. When I tried to find a replacement online, I failed because the type designation printed on it didn't quite match the APLS documents. I suspect that I only have to snip off a few legs of a standard type I can buy online to replace the thing, but which part exactly do I have to buy?

 

[natto lover]

I've just ordered a 727, and I hope it'll arrive by the end of the week. Concerning the gain mod (i.e. replacing R5 and R6 with 200ohm parts):

Are there any sonic benefits, or is this just for consistency in case one owns multiple Stax amps? If I perform this mod, I'd like to use the same size of MELF resistor for the replacement. Does anyone know what size, power rating etc. would be the right choice?

Another question: a friend of mine owns a SRM-310 with a scratchy volume potentiometer. When I tried to find a replacement online, I failed because the type designation printed on it didn't quite match the APLS documents. I suspect that I only have to snip off a few legs of a standard type I can buy online to replace the thing, but which part exactly do I have to buy?

what is the label on the original pot? 50K特X2?

 

[Eich1eeF]

what is the label on the original pot? 50K特X2?

If I read it correctly, it's actually

503A
45 1X

 

[Pokemonn]

damn it! i just noticed a simple fact. i cound notice this simple fact as a hard fact until today.....

computer audio = sound not so good....

many posters/contoributers suggested this simple real fact many times before.
I just codnt realize it. damn it. really sad. lol
Stax is not bad. computer is not so good.

Thank you very much for your advices/posts! thanks again!

chao(Anakchan and JimL may understand this Oyaji joke lol)