[Music Alchemist]

  Let's see, a stupid DAC or a Ferrari... not a particularly difficult choice 

Not difficult at all. I'd choose the DAC in a heartbeat. Only the best DAC for my lo-fi black metal.

 
(Though Ferraris and other supercars cost far more. I stopped caring about fancy cars a few years ago, anyway. I work from home and don't even use a car now.)

 

[Jodet]

I bought a Chord 2Qute to use in my main 2-channel system and it sounds so good on my headphone setup that I just keep it there. 

 

[David1961]

 

$

$

$

 
I've seen the CH-Precision C1 DAC priced at $32,975, however the USB board needed in order to use the MacMini is an optional extra, which will obviously add to that cost.
 
For a lot of us [ myself included ]  $32,975 is a large amount of money, and for me would take a long time saving, but I would sooner save that money needed and get something I really wanted.
 
I also had a look at the Trinity DAC, but at around $60,000 I'd have to win the lottery, that won't happen though because I no longer do it.
 
 
P.S. This audition with the C1 isn't because I'm unhappy with the K-01, because I am, it's just that while the K-01 is extremely detailed and transparent, I would say it could do with being a little more musical, which apparently the C1 is, as well as supposedly being very detailed and transparent.

 

[milosz]

Interesting to see a DAC claiming over 170 dB dynamic range.   ( http://www.msbtech.com/products/dacSelect.php )
 
A typical symphony hall has a background noise level between 35 and 50 dB.  5 meters in front of a typical symphony orchestra, max SPL is almost never above 100 dB.  And, of course, further back, say at row 25, it would be lower.
 
So if a symphony has a dynamic range of 60 to 50 dB, how exactly does a 170 dB dynamic range add to the reproduction of music?
 
It's remarkable to create such a DAC, but I'm not convinced that this approach will lead to the best sound.

 

[Music Alchemist]

  I also had a look at the Trinity DAC, but at around $60,000 I'd have to win the lottery, that won't happen though because I no longer do it.

 
I've read a lot about the TRINITY DAC. Some like it more than the dCS Vivaldi!
 

  Interesting to see a DAC claiming over 170 dB dynamic range.   ( http://www.msbtech.com/products/dacSelect.php )
 
A typical symphony hall has a background noise level between 35 and 50 dB.  5 meters in front of a typical symphony orchestra, max SPL is almost never above 100 dB.  And, of course, further back, say at row 25, it would be lower.
 
So if a symphony has a dynamic range of 60 to 50 dB, how exactly does a 170 dB dynamic range add to the reproduction of music?
 
It's remarkable to create such a DAC, but I'm not convinced that this approach will lead to the best sound.

 
DR is but one of countless factors. At any rate, having more than enough won't hurt anything.

 

[astrostar59]

   
The descriptions make me want them so bad, though. haha
 
http://www.msbtech.com/products/dacSelect.php
http://www.msbtech.com/products/femto.php

I hate the design of that website, it looks totally amateurish. I do respect MSB for leading the charge in DAC technology, but to me it yet another company that has some good products at sane prices, then start taking chemicals and goes all ballistic on pricing. How the hell they can say they spent that much on parts and development on that DAC. It makes no sense. It is for oil shieks,  footballers, or rappers on even more chemicals.
 
Sorry, I hate this part of our hobby. I love companies like TotalDAC that lead a different charge and ask fair money for a great product.
 
TBH if anyone was to buy that MSB thing, they are beyond help IMO.

 

[karlgerman]

As i know a r2r DAC like PAVANE, maybe MUSETTE or a TOTALDAC will be best counterpart ti your K-01.
Most of the reviews about those dac´s desribe as smoother/"more musical" (whatever that means) without loosing any detail in music.
 
The ultimate would be a MSB for sure. But all of that glorious description about this DAC i read in every review about any expensive DAC on the market.
After reading i was always in a mood for a change!
Already having a 24.000 $ DAC i might be too influenced by fancy companies!!!

 

[astrostar59]

  As i know a r2r DAC like PAVANE, maybe MUSETTE or a TOTALDAC will be best counterpart ti your K-01.
Most of the reviews about those dac´s desribe as smoother/"more musical" (whatever that means) without loosing any detail in music.
 
The ultimate would be a MSB for sure. But all of that glorious description about this DAC i read in every review about any expensive DAC on the market.
After reading i was always in a mood for a change!
Already having a 24.000 $ DAC i might be too influenced by fancy companies!!!

karlgerman
I would be fascinated in your opinion on hearing an R-2R DAC. I swopped to this type a few years ago and have never looked back. I can hear and appreciate what great DS DACs done right can do. However, IMO they sound a bit technical and false somehow. It is the treble quality I find inaccurate. To make matters worse IMO most DS DACs are solid state with poor amplifier sections. I am not saying SS can't sound great, but tubed units seems to get closer to the music IMO. Regardless of the tube v SS argument, I think most high end systems need a tubed unit in the chain i.e tubed DAC or pre-amplifier. If we go SS right through IMO it all goes a bit plastic and cold, it leaves me emotionless.
 
Going back the the R-2R V DS subject.
 
So, IMO there are 3 aspects to this subject:
 
1. The conversion method on the digital board
 
2. The type, design and quality of the power supplies
 
3. The quality and care taken in the amplification section, dealing with the fragile and low level signal to bring it up to line level to correctly drive the next stage.
 
A perfect amplifier stage would have limitless power reserve and zero output impedance. Believe it or not, way to many (expensive) DACs have a pitifully poor and badly designed amplification section, instead obsessing about the chip board and 'tech specs' such as SNR and dynamic range. Pretty meaningless if the amplifier is not doing it's job....
 
I would question any high end DAC (10K+) and look if that same company, see if it makes great pre-amplifiers as well. If not, how can they make a great DAC, as a DAC is essentially a pre-amplifier with a digital board inside.
 
Also, in the serious money bracket, is that company going to be around in 3 or more years? What about warranty and repairs? What about firmware updates and even hardware updates.
 
Complicated but also fascinating subject.

 

[icebear]

...  
So if a symphony has a dynamic range of 60 to 50 dB, how exactly does a 170 dB dynamic range add to the reproduction of music?
...

LOL, this is not about the music, it's about the numbers and the bigger the better

Do you decide on your gear by listening or do your buy the best specs?
Trust the marketing

 

[barid]

  LOL, this is not about the music, it's about the numbers and the bigger the better

Do you decide on your gear by listening or do your buy the best specs?
Trust the marketing

 
Shhh...just got buy a $6,000 DAC.  Anything less would be a joke.

 

[bearFNF]

Shhh...just got buy a $6,000 DAC.  Anything less would be a joke.

You mean $60,000 DAC right?

 

[Music Alchemist]

  I hate the design of that website, it looks totally amateurish. I do respect MSB for leading the charge in DAC technology, but to me it yet another company that has some good products at sane prices, then start taking chemicals and goes all ballistic on pricing. How the hell they can say they spent that much on parts and development on that DAC. It makes no sense. It is for oil shieks,  footballers, or rappers on even more chemicals.
 
Sorry, I hate this part of our hobby. I love companies like TotalDAC that lead a different charge and ask fair money for a great product.
 
TBH if anyone was to buy that MSB thing, they are beyond help IMO.

 
Yup, I'm pretty hopeless.

 
But is there a better (as in more accurate) DAC than that one? That is the question.

 

[astrostar59]

   
Yup, I'm pretty hopeless.

 
But is there a better (as in more accurate) DAC than that one? That is the question.

I would say probably. Lets put the digital conversion circuit to one side for a moment. What is the power supply like? What is the line board (analogue amplifier section) like?
Could this be a world class pre-amplifier is my point. If it can, then yes, those MSB digital boards could make this a world leader.
 
Myself, I doubt it, I am thinking it could be yet another great digital board in a poorly designed pre-amplifier (in a fancy case).
To prove me wrong, lets see some interior photos and a schematic, show that massively over spec'ed power supply and those incredible gain stages...
 
Please prove me wrong someone, show me how this 80K DAC is the best thing ever!

 

[NoPants]

You have no idea what you're talking about

 

[Music Alchemist]

  I would say probably. Lets put the digital conversion circuit to one side for a moment. What is the power supply like? What is the line board (analogue amplifier section) like?
Could this be a world class pre-amplifier is my point. If it can, then yes, those MSB digital boards could make this a world leader.
 
Myself, I doubt it, I am thinking it could be yet another great digital board in a poorly designed pre-amplifier (in a fancy case).
To prove me wrong, lets see some interior photos and a schematic, show that massively over spec'ed power supply and those incredible gain stages...
 
Please prove me wrong someone, show me how this 80K DAC is the best thing ever!

 
Please link me to documentation supporting this claim of yours that the preamp in a DAC is so important.
 
There are two power supplies, all with supposedly better specs than the power supplies in their other DACs, and MSB DACs are regarded as among the best, so...