[Earspeakers]

Deleted.

I meant that the Sigma looks absolutely ridiculous, not the 009 which is the best looking of the Stax IMO

 

[David1961]

Deleted.

I meant that the Sigma looks absolutely ridiculous, not the 009 which is the best looking of the Stax IMO

That's why I deleted my post because I was unsure.

 

[edstrelow]

 
Quote:

 
  So I've been enjoying a pair of Sigmas recently. I found a pair of broken Sigma normals (from a fellow member, though listed on eBay) and had them professionally repaired with NOS Professional Lambda drivers, along with pads, cable and headband.
 
They're quite interesting. I was expecting exceptional imaging but that's not at all what I'm experiencing. I believe the 009's image better than the Sigmas. Instead it gives a, well softening isn't the right word but something like that, to the sound. It does calm the music down a bit, as speakers do in a room, or as occurs in a concert hall with a performer some distance from you. Other Stax seem to attempt to do this. The Nova which loses detail and becomes fuzzy (but does gain softness.) The 007 mk 1 and mk 2, which becomes flabby and too soft - to my ears at least. None of them stay as true to Stax as do these IMO, in addition to calming them down, without gaining much of anything bad.
 
Quite nice, the 009 is still king in my book, but despite looking absolutely ridiculous these are up there, for when you just want to relax and enjoy some good music.

 
I like the openness of sound of the Sigma high bias phones. They also sound a lot cleaner and dynamic with sorbothane damping.  As regards their looks, back in the day they were big kooky boxes. However, a lot on new phones are as big or bigger,  eg the 009's and many of the planars.  This is a shot I took of my Sigma/404 being used at the recent Canjam.  I don't think they look that bad.  Also see an original Stax poster.
 
 

 

 

[Jones Bob]

They look like Borg.

 

[HemiSam]

LMAO...they do like kind of wonky.
 
I really dug the SR-007A's.  I'm with Birgir on them.  Perhaps they've made some recent changes...I would not call them flabby down low when amped properly.  The do dig deep and are pretty damn visceral for e-stats.
 
HS

 

[Earspeakers]

   
This is a shot I took of my Sigma/404 being used at the recent Canjam.  I don't think they look that bad.  Also see an original Stax poster.

 
I think the picture proves my point, big old box cars, lol ... I should say though, I don't care what they look like, I'd use them regardless. 
 
The poster is interesting - "Spatial Reality'. Again I'm not hearing tremendous imaging. I just switched back to the 009's which do it better for me at least.
 

I really dug the SR-007A's.  I'm with Birgir on them.  Perhaps they've made some recent changes...I would not call them flabby down low when amped properly.  The do dig deep and are pretty damn visceral for e-stats.

 
There appears to be two camps, those who prefer 007 and those who prefer 009. The 007's do 'dig deep' as you say, but is sounds artificial to my ears. It also might be a music preference, I'm a classical only listener and perhaps they do better with popular music. I like them all though and still enjoy my 007's. 

 

[arnaud]

 
Hi Arnaud,
 
Thanks for replying! I read all 339 pages of this thread before asking, so I know you know what you're talking about.
I had the knob at around 12-1 oclock on the 727. 
This symphony has some pianississimo and some fortississimo passages so one needs to have the volume relatively high in order to appreciate the quiet parts.
I find that with most music, louder than 11-12 o'clock means very annoying strings, horns and voices. (Quieter than this is amazing though...)
Would you also do me the favor of testing this track and letting me know if you find the horn section annoying through the 009s?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQ99OMlI5cg
 
(even better if you have Tidal and can hear it in lossless)

 
Thank you for the link to the interesting music references .
 
I actually listened to:
1. Crieg's String quartet (Qobuz CD quality)
2. The Shubert 8th 1st mouvement (Qobuz CD quality)
3. The you tube video you posted
 
- While I do not find any of these recordings strident, I did lower the volume after initially trying at around 11AM-12PM. 
- My typical listening level is 9AM on this amp and any recording typically sounds good in that position.
 
- I am not sure this is an increase in distortion, some kind of dynamic compression or just the voicing of the phone being targeted towards moderate listening, but basically I don't enjoy pushing the volume excessively.
- I agree it is problematic for some wide dynamic range orchestral pieces like 2.
- As for 3, the bass is borderline loose / bloomy but I've had this thing happening several times over since the arrival of the D1 dac (a bass monster it would seem ).
- I am hoping beefing up the amplification will clear all these issues as has been reported by other members...
 
Conclusion: I'd look into the DAC direction if you notice some shrillness even at moderate volumes, otherwise I would encourage you to try a different amp (see Mjolnir Audio's website and Headinclouds builds). There are many options to choose from at all prices among the DYI builders. For me the wait for the BHSE is getting excruciating, I would have bought a KGSSHV from headinclouds or spritzer if it had been available at the time I placed my order for the BHSE and called it a day. Having waiting 30 months now, it would be silly to cancel the order though .
 
cheers,
arnaud

 

[edstrelow]

   
I think the picture proves my point, big old box cars, lol ... I should say though, I don't care what they look like, I'd use them regardless. 
 
The poster is interesting - "Spatial Reality'. Again I'm not hearing tremendous imaging. I just switched back to the 009's which do it better for me at least.
 
 
There appears to be two camps, those who prefer 007 and those who prefer 009. The 007's do 'dig deep' as you say, but is sounds artificial to my ears. It also might be a music preference, I'm a classical only listener and perhaps they do better with popular music. I like them all though and still enjoy my 007's.. 

The point of the Sigma is to get the driver ahead of the ear so that the sound comes from the front of the head , rather than from the side as happens with other phones.  With the driver at the front, you will get reflections from the pinna similar to what you would get from a sound source in front of you. This was what Stax was getting at with the term "spatial reality." I don't find it fully compelling, but now and again I think my speakers are on when I am only wearing the Sigmas. Generally though I do get a good sensation of openness of the sound with the Sigmas. When I demonstrated the Sigmas at Canjam a few people described it as a "big" sound, which I think meant that they perceived the sound as coming from outside the head rather than inside the head.
 
Imaging is a different matter. This refers to the positioning of sound sources from left to right. This requires firstly some decent channel separation, i.e. if the left and right channel are mixed there is reduced stereo because there is not enough difference between the channels. In the extreme case where the 2 channels have the same signal, you would get no imaging because it would be monaural.. I suspect that the reason the 009 and even the 007 give superior imaging is that the two drivers are fairly flat and very well matched, i.e. either  the manufacturing process gives very little variation in frequency response from one driver to another, and/or Stax tests the drivers and chooses those that have most similar responses.  Thus there is little variation in directional cues caused by the drivers (a sort of directional noise) and you get a better image. However this costs time and work to achieve and is one of the factors in the high cost of these phones.

 

[Earspeakers]

  The point of the Sigma is to get the driver ahead of the ear ...

 
Yes I understand the mechanics thanks. The positioning of the drivers is similar as for speakers obviously, with the important exception that there's no spatial mixing between left and right channels. In other words the right channel isn't being heard by the left and vice versa, as they are with speakers, so the two channels are isolated. Recording and mixing is designed so that on reproduction this mixing does occur, and we get a sense of positioning of the musicians. Of course a recording can be mixed for headphones, as in the Dr Chesky's "Binaural Technologies" (which I guess is Binaural recording using a dummy head such as the Neumann KU 100)
 
At any rate, regardless of what Stax may have intended (Spatial Reality implies imaging to me), it seems they have a hybrid, or something new depending on how you look at it. Placed somewhat like speakers in front but with isolation between channels, so neither normal headphones nor speakers. I think you put your finger on it for me ...
 

 a few people described it as a "big" sound, which I think meant that they perceived the sound as coming from outside the head rather than inside the head.

 
That's what it sounds like, more out of the head, but the imaging sounds wrong, so it's kind of big and diffuse. Regardless I like 'em 

 

[aphex27]

   
Thank you for the link to the interesting music references .
 
I actually listened to:
1. Crieg's String quartet (Qobuz CD quality)
2. The Shubert 8th 1st mouvement (Qobuz CD quality)
3. The you tube video you posted
 
- While I do not find any of these recordings strident, I did lower the volume after initially trying at around 11AM-12PM. 
- My typical listening level is 9AM on this amp and any recording typically sounds good in that position.
 
- I am not sure this is an increase in distortion, some kind of dynamic compression or just the voicing of the phone being targeted towards moderate listening, but basically I don't enjoy pushing the volume excessively.
- I agree it is problematic for some wide dynamic range orchestral pieces like 2.
- As for 3, the bass is borderline loose / bloomy but I've had this thing happening several times over since the arrival of the D1 dac (a bass monster it would seem ).
- I am hoping beefing up the amplification will clear all these issues as has been reported by other members...
 
Conclusion: I'd look into the DAC direction if you notice some shrillness even at moderate volumes, otherwise I would encourage you to try a different amp (see Mjolnir Audio's website and Headinclouds builds). There are many options to choose from at all prices among the DYI builders. For me the wait for the BHSE is getting excruciating, I would have bought a KGSSHV from headinclouds or spritzer if it had been available at the time I placed my order for the BHSE and called it a day. Having waiting 30 months now, it would be silly to cancel the order though .
 
cheers,
arnaud

Glad you liked them Arnaud
 
Agreed about 9AM..everything sounds great there but unfortunately that's too low for me..I need it a bit higher in order to get immersed in the music..
 
Regarding the DAC, I have to admit that I'm a sceptic..I don't think I would ever be able to tell DACs apart in blind tests..
I think I'm going to buy the new Hifiman headphones first and then explore the amplifier options for the 009 if I'm not happy with them..
I have to say though that I'm slowly falling in love with the 009s..I had a 10-hour session yesterday..I couldn't take them off my head

 
In any case, many thanks for the advice and good luck with the wait! (I really hope it's worth it!)

 

[edstrelow]

   
Yes I understand the mechanics thanks. The positioning of the drivers is similar as for speakers obviously, with the important exception that there's no spatial mixing between left and right channels. In other words the right channel isn't being heard by the left and vice versa, as they are with speakers, so the two channels are isolated. Recording and mixing is designed so that on reproduction this mixing does occur, and we get a sense of positioning of the musicians. Of course a recording can be mixed for headphones, as in the Dr Chesky's "Binaural Technologies" (which I guess is Binaural recording using a dummy head such as the Neumann KU 100)
 
At any rate, regardless of what Stax may have intended (Spatial Reality implies imaging to me), it seems they have a hybrid, or something new depending on how you look at it. Placed somewhat like speakers in front but with isolation between channels, so neither normal headphones nor speakers. I think you put your finger on it for me ...
 
 
That's what it sounds like, more out of the head, but the imaging sounds wrong, so it's kind of big and diffuse. Regardless I like 'em 

Re: the hybrid that's why Stax called them "earspeakers."
 
Over the last 2 years as I have been experimenting with sorbothane damping , my preferences in headphones have changed, generally in favor of whatever phone I had most recently got a successful damping arrangement.  Now that all of my stable is damped I am back where I was previously in preferences: the 007A for orchestral/ instrumental and the Sigma/404 for vocal although the advantages of either phone are less clear-cut now and each does everything better. 

 

[gilency]

As far as DAC's I am also a sceptic. Above a certain amount, I don't believe there is a whole lot of a difference unless you have the mythical golden ears.

 

[edstrelow]

  As far as DAC's I am also a sceptic. Above a certain amount, I don't believe there is a whole lot of a difference unless you have the mythical golden ears.

Ok but what is that "certain amount.?"
 
I think there are still a lot of problems with digital audio and there remain times when my trusty turntable is preferable (except for clicks, pops scratches, surface noise and the like, at least for  speakers.   My own experience was that merely upgrading my cd transport from an old belt driven CEC model, to Woo's cd transport made  a big difference to the sound , without even changing any of my DAC's.  I don't know what Woo did but it showed that even digital read-out is a problem and any dac which could potentially get around that sort of problem could possibly be an improvement.  I liked the Woo so much that I went ou and bought another one right away.
 
As regards DACs, I am using a couple of old Musical Fidelity XDAC's V3 with outboard power supplies and having listened to some other top set-ups at the recent Canjam, see no need to upgrade them.

 

[troymadison]

Stax SR-507 is my favorite lambda so far after trying the SR-404, SR-407, SR-303 and Nova Basic. I like it when an electrostatic headphone just happens to be really bassy.

 

[Earspeakers]

  Stax SR-507 is my favorite lambda so far after trying the SR-404, SR-407, SR-303 and Nova Basic. I like it when an electrostatic headphone just happens to be really bassy.

Yeah the recent production Lambdas are nice and heavy. I happen to prefer the 404/404LE for my tastes, more refinement in some fashion. The Nova Signature is heavy too, not with the weight of the modern ones, but more wooly. A nice in between is the NOS Lambda pro converted Sigma I have.