[tjlindle]

The 353x is one of my favorite amps, nice and compact, classic look, sounds great with most of the Lambdas and with at least the 009. I also found it drove most of the notable non-Stax estats (ESP950, RR1 Conquest, HiveX) really well.

 

[KDS315]

OMG what did just happen, has the “STAX MAFIA” finally been prosecuted and imprisoned and ppl are getting their senses back??? ::LAUGHTER::

 

[SolarCetacean]

OMG what did just happen, has the “STAX MAFIA” finally been prosecuted and imprisoned and ppl are getting their senses back??? ::LAUGHTER::

It's more like the Stax Mafia is a faction rather than a monolithic group. Justin is associated with the Stax Mafia, as he, KG, and spritzer go way back. The Mafia to me looks more like a political party where there are the hardliners and the moderates in the group. spritzer is the hardliner; to him anything other than the Mafia designs is crap or derivative. Justin is more like a moderate; he thinks the KG-design amplifiers plus his own designs like the Grand Cayman are technically better than the Stax-built amps, but he recognizes their respective strengths. And there are those who prefer the Stax amplifiers over the 3rd party designs; that would be like being in a different faction entirely. Fortunately, Electrostatia is not a one-party state.

 

[tjlindle]

When I first got into electrostats Birgir recommended the SRM-1/Mk2 as an entry level amp, I still have that amp too and the NB Lambda sounds very good out of it. I know he is a fan of the 717 at least as well, and I think also the 353x so I wouldn't characterize him as parochially hostile or dismissive to the Stax amps.

There's nothing wrong with steering people towards the more expensive DIY/"Mafia" amps as long as it doesn't involve disingenuous statements about lower powered amps being uniformly terrible. Unfortunately, because a lot of hobbies devolve into elitism, that ends up being the case though. Cycling is even worse and I basically gave up interacting with other hobbyists in that area many years ago because of it.

To be clear I don't really think any of the notable figures in the community would say something like "Don't bother until you can afford at least a KGSSHV" if you ask them about budget amp options. Some other ancillary members would though and they have definitely lost the plot.

 

[Chefguru]

The problem is that too many people are running around saying that the minimum spend for an electrostatic amp is $5k and this idea is ridiculous.
I think your stance on the 007 needing serious juice makes sense but it has trickled down in a really unhelpful way; it doesn't help that nearly every non-KG amp gets slammed as hot garbage and a fire hazard immediately.
It's the worst part of the hobby when the gear hierarchy gets set in stone and interferes with people's enjoyment of music (that's not what you are doing).

Emphasis added for the parts I agree with

I think the key here with my personal experience is that a lot of people who try to get into estats are coming over from dynamics and planar which in my opinion rarely warrant the money placed into heavy amplification. So the Stax mafia big red warning about companies making bad amps and stax’s current line amps perhaps being over priced, is warranted when there are a plethora of elegant solutions.

However, I’m perfectly comfortable saying that a CCs modified T1S for $900 is a “good enough” amp to know if you like virtually any of the headphones in the line up with exception to the 007 (and to a lesser degree the CRBN). But of course anyone in the community that’s been on here should know that by now, given it’s been a common topic of conversation for the last 20 years and part of the reason the headphone has polarized opinions (not to mention the 6+ different driver types). This isn’t to say that the other headphones don’t improve with the diy designs - but rather, it’s not at the same level of effect.

 

[kid vic]

When I first got into electrostats Birgir recommended the SRM-1/Mk2 as an entry level amp, I still have that amp too and the NB Lambda sounds very good out of it. I know he is a fan of the 717 at least as well, and I think also the 353x so I wouldn't characterize him as parochially hostile or dismissive to the Stax amps.

There's nothing wrong with steering people towards the more expensive DIY/"Mafia" amps as long as it doesn't involve disingenuous statements about lower powered amps being uniformly terrible. Unfortunately, because a lot of hobbies devolve into elitism, that ends up being the case though. Cycling is even worse and I basically gave up interacting with other hobbyists in that area many years ago because of it.

To be clear I don't really think any of the notable figures in the community would say something like "Don't bother until you can afford at least a KGSSHV" if you ask them about budget amp options. Some other ancillary members would though and they have definitely lost the plot.

Birgir recommended the SRM-007t and the 717 to me, so he definitely doesn't hate all Stax designs. He is also actively modifying and selling Stax amps which indicates some level of approval.

This post encapsulates precisely the problem. The outright dismissal of everything under $5k for the L700 is absurd and disingenuous; I could see saying nothing under the T1 will do but a $5k floor is ridiculous.

 

[tjlindle]

This post encapsulates precisely the problem. The outright dismissal of everything under $5k for the L700 is absurd and disingenuous; I could see saying nothing under the T1 will do but a $5k floor is ridiculous.

I 100% agree that that post is exactly the problem, but I also want to point out that the post has no likes at all and it was immediately quoted and repudiated by other members in posts that all had a good number of likes. The people doing this in bad faith/ignorance are a minority.

That goes back to my original statement which is that these people need to just be outright ignored. It is hard enough trying to figure out where you should land equipment-wise in something as subjective as audio, we don't need to pay attention to obvious idiots complicating that process further.

Until recently there was an L300/252s combo in the classifieds here for $500, you could endgame there if desired, the L300 is one of the best headphones ever made and the 252s can drive it appropriately. Or you could have a T2 and Omega for like $25k outlay and endgame there. Both of those options are valid, that is the reality of the situation, anyone who says otherwise has some ulterior motive beyond just listening to music.

 

[kid vic]

I 100% agree that that post is exactly the problem, but I also want to point out that the post has no likes at all and it was immediately quoted and repudiated by other members in posts that all had a good number of likes. The people doing this in bad faith/ignorance are a minority.

That goes back to my original statement which is that these people need to just be outright ignored. It is hard enough trying to figure out where you should land equipment-wise in something as subjective as audio, we don't need to pay attention to obvious idiots complicating that process further.

Until recently there was an L300/252s combo in the classifieds here for $500, you could endgame there if desired, the L300 is one of the best headphones ever made and the 252s can drive it appropriately. Or you could have a T2 and Omega for like $25k outlay and endgame there. Both of those options are valid, that is the reality of the situation, anyone who says otherwise has some ulterior motive beyond just listening to music.

That's true and people can certainly pick up and L300/500 plus a T1 or M1 for less than $1000 and have a legitimate endgame system for less than a Hifiman Arya or HD800S.

I thinks that posters mindset has pushed people away from Stax even if it is less common now.

 

[kid vic]

Since we're all here for music I may as well redirect the thread back:

Cambridge audio CXN v1 > Musician Audio Pegasus > Stax 007t MK1 > Stax SR-404LE

 

[tjlindle]

Since we're all here for music I may as well redirect the thread back:

Cambridge audio CXN v1 > Musician Audio Pegasus > Stax 007t MK1 > Stax SR-404LE

Ahh I wish I'd kept the 404LE longer to try it out of a tube amp. Great chain

 

[Yodamanjaro]

Can you describe what you preferred between the two if memory serves?

L300 is more neutral and "true" to what I'm used to listening.

The 009S had noticeably less bass and had some upper mid to treble peak that really made me have to skip certain songs because it honestly ruined them. I tried convincing myself that "more expensive = more better" and that my ears were wrong, not the collection of people online saying the 009S is one of the best sounding headphones out there. In the end, I kept going back to my L300s and realized that it was more comfortable and was tuned to my preferences while still having the same clarity.

 

[Svperstar]

L300 is more neutral and "true" to what I'm used to listening.

The 009S had noticeably less bass and had some upper mid to treble peak that really made me have to skip certain songs because it honestly ruined them. I tried convincing myself that "more expensive = more better" and that my ears were wrong, not the collection of people online saying the 009S is one of the best sounding headphones out there. In the end, I kept going back to my L300s and realized that it was more comfortable and was tuned to my preferences while still having the same clarity.

I wonder if it was port modded and had different pads if you would still prefer the L300

 

[Philimon]

I ordered these extra thick aftermarket lambskin Stax pads for padrolling. I think they will be an improvement, more depth, more “v-shape” frequency response.

The 3DP adapters with oval pads greatly
improve tone (Spirit) but reduce one of Lambda’s great strengths: sense of soundstage and open-ness... I think the wider earpad openings of stock dimension pads allow the large soundstage but are also possibly reason for 1kHz hump.

Spirit oval pad mehsures:

^ noted imbalance, likely from damaged driver. Please ignore imbalance above 1kHz as EARS L/R highs have not been compensated for balance from asymmetrical silicone ears.

=======

Some more early impressions:

SR202 is bright tilted. Prone to annoying Stax “fart” unlike 507 or Spirit. Hoping deeper and plusher pads will help with farts and increase bass. The brightness does contribute to sense of detail but probably is annoying after long sessions.

SR507’s 1kHz hump is permeating. Have to remove pad dust filter to increase highs otherwise too dim. When EQd, the bass is a little soft relative to HD650 which is unsuprising as that is supposedly a common Stax characteristic. In some instances, HD650’s distorted bass is preferable as its able to reproduce a slighther greater sense of dynamics and weight. Maybe my speaker amp is too weak? I am a very low volume listener so thought Schiit Rekker + SRD7mk2 (modded) would be sufficient even with EQ (to reduce 1kHz hump). Low volume listening is also not sympatico with 1kHz hump according to Equal Loudness Contour which is why I prefer “v-shape” frequency response.

Spirit with 3DP pad adapter and oval pads is most neutral. However, the measured imbalance sets off my audiophile nervosa despite inability to reliably perceive channel imbalance subjectively. Spirit with 3DP pad adapters seems to have more hefty (better) bass than SR507 but unconfirmed as have not tested that much.

===========

I am now most keen to hear current gen Lambdas, my hopes:
- supposedly front-side vented which would eliminate potential for Stax farts (slight membrane crinkling sound)
- front-side venting could possibly increase bass quantity and sense of dynamics
- if vented, then driver would be less damped and should be easier to drive with Rekkr + SRD7

I am only interested in the mk2 versions of current-gen. Apparently the mk1 versions have less sturdy and ergonomically flawed headbands, hence mk2.

=========

Going to padroll SR-Xmk3 next. Deeper pads should help I think.

 

[Svperstar]

It isn't surprising that since the inception of the 007, stax has opted to make headphones with 20+% lower impedance.

How does it make sense that you need an amp with 2x-3x the power to make up for a 20+% lower impedance?

When I first decided to finally "get into Stax" people explained it was the voltage RMS that was the big difference between amps. When I said I didn't hear a big difference between the T1S and 717, supposedly a 50% difference in voltage RMS I was told "Its not about that, its about voltage swing"

Ok. I am not an electric engineer.

According to Stax the impedance on the L500 mk2 is 145k
https://staxaudio.com/earspeaker/sr-l500

The impedance on the 007 is 170k
https://staxaudio.com/earspeaker/sr-007mk2

Also according to Stax the sensitivity of the L500 is 101db and the 007 is 100db.........so we are literally talking about 1 db here.

I'm no mathematician so lets ask ChatGPT:

What percent difference is there between 145 and 170?


To calculate the percent difference between two values, you can use the formula:
Percent Difference=∣Value 1−Value 2Value 1+Value 22∣×100Percent Difference=∣
∣2Value 1+Value 2Value 1−Value 2∣
∣×100

Let's apply this formula to your values:

Percent Difference=∣145−170145+1702∣×100Percent Difference=∣

∣2145+170145−170∣
∣×100

Percent Difference=∣−253152∣×100Percent Difference=∣

∣2315−25∣
∣×100

Percent Difference=∣−25157.5∣×100Percent Difference=∣

∣157.5−25∣
∣×100
Percent Difference≈15.87%Percent Difference≈15.87%
So, the percent difference between 145 and 170 is approximately 15.87%.

So 15.87%

All of this hullabaloo of the 007 being impossible to drive properly, over a 15.87% difference.

So when I am listening to my 007 out of my 717 I can pause the music, unplug the 007, put on the L500 mk2, and the music is still at a listenable volume. I don't need to touch the knob.

Interesting.

 

[kevin gilmore]

t1(all versions) 006t,007t,313,323,717,727,400t,400s,500t,500s,t8000,d50 all have the same +/-350v power supplies. its the current in the output stage that is different.
xh,212,252 are +/-250
d10 is +/-200
t2 is +/-500