[TheCheshireCatt]

Well mastered and encoded mp3's at 320 will sound better than .flac's of poorly mastered recordings, but in general a flac will usually sound better than an mp3 of the same recording. In my opinion, quality of the source material is more important than the headphones even. I think your AKGH 7's will definitely improve with the magni, especially compared to your computer output. My computer has a realtek HD audio chip in it, but my LCD3 sounds pretty bad out of it. They didn't really even sound good with my Schiit Lyr, so amping does make a surprising difference with headphones like the AKG 7's that tend to rely on them.

Yeah I just tried these in a game and they sounded pretty awful, I guess that amp is top priority for me right now. Out of curiosity, will the Magni 2 sound er... good? I know it's a relatively budget solid state amp, and I'm nervous about what I'm pairing with the K712's considering everyone says they're so amp dependent.

 

[TheCheshireCatt]

Yeah I just tried these in a game and they sounded pretty awful, I guess that amp is top priority for me right now. Out of curiosity, will the Magni 2 sound er... good? I know it's a relatively budget solid state amp, and I'm nervous about what I'm pairing with the K712's considering everyone says they're so amp dependent.

Oh, I forgot, would it be better to plug these into my Behringer UM-2 1/4 output?

 

[Cheffy]

Thanks everyone for your encouragement and advice and input.

I bought the k712's yesterday and they arrived today, I'm listening to my first ever song with them right now. As my amp hasn't arrived, I'm just driving them through onboard audio and I gotta say, it sounds pretty terrible, but then I expected it would. I have to drive the volume up quite a lot just to be able to hear anything, and even then, everything sounds pretty flat. Will probably post again once the Magni 2 arrives. I know I shouldn't really judge until I have it amped, but I'm a little nervous that I made a bad purchasing decision. I'll try and be patient and reserve judgement until I get an amp.


EDIT: Actually, some songs sound a lot better than others. Seems like the source really makes a difference? My flac stuff sounds better than .mp3's. I don't know if this is placebo or not.

The AKG-712 are noted for their highly detailed and mostly flat sounding response (i.e. fairly uncoloured). They're not generally noted as a "fun" headphone, but instead a reference headphone. However, amping will almost certainly bring out a more dynamic sound from the headphones. That, and as noted, source material is key. I find some songs, even if lossless, just sound bleh. That is mostly a function of the original mastering.

Find some fun sounding music and give it a go. Play around with the EQ a little. I suspect you'll find that the sound is thinner than you expected. A little bump in the sub to mid-bass (40 hz, 80 hz) and upper bass/low mids (120-250) might give you what you're looking for. Maybe take the 5-6K range down a couple of db.

 

[Cheffy]

Yeah I just tried these in a game and they sounded pretty awful, I guess that amp is top priority for me right now. Out of curiosity, will the Magni 2 sound er... good? I know it's a relatively budget solid state amp, and I'm nervous about what I'm pairing with the K712's considering everyone says they're so amp dependent.

I wouldn't worry about that - the whole "dependent on a specific amp" thing is misleading. The main functions of an amp are to reduce the noise floor and provide more power to drive the phones. Your magni will do that in spades. You'll have WAY more power than those phones can handle, and I suspect you'll never find yourself using high gain with them. Now, some amps can add colour to the sound. For neutral and bright sounding phones like the AKGs, some people prefer to add some warmth. The "right amp" can do this to some extent. But, you can achieve similar effects through EQ. for now, I'd just see how it sounds with the amp, and use a software EQ like EQ APO with the Peace GUI to do some minor tweaks. I believe head-fi user Metal571 gave some recommended EQ adjustments for the 7xx/712 on his youtube channel. If you're still unsatisfied, you might consider a hardware EQ or tube amp. But if that's the case, I'd return the headphones and get something that suits your tastes better.

 

[TheCheshireCatt]

I wouldn't worry about that - the whole "dependent on a specific amp" thing is misleading. The main functions of an amp are to reduce the noise floor and provide more power to drive the phones. Your magni will do that in spades. You'll have WAY more power than those phones can handle, and I suspect you'll never find yourself using high gain with them. Now, some amps can add colour to the sound. For neutral and bright sounding phones like the AKGs, some people prefer to add some warmth. The "right amp" can do this to some extent. But, you can achieve similar effects through EQ. for now, I'd just see how it sounds with the amp, and use a software EQ like EQ APO with the Peace GUI to do some minor tweaks. I believe head-fi user Metal571 gave some recommended EQ adjustments for the 7xx/712 on his youtube channel. If you're still unsatisfied, you might consider a hardware EQ or tube amp. But if that's the case, I'd return the headphones and get something that suits your tastes better.

Wow, you've really been a tonne of help, thank you so very much. The head-fi community is awesome. there's a couple of things to reply to but I'm too lazy to properly format so I'll just bullet point and reply in order of your points as I read them.

• I was unaware that they were so analytical, especially when I asked in one of my first posts for a recommendation for a 'fun' headphone with regards to my music taste, but considering I'm coming from the ATH-M50X's I'm pretty used to analytical so honestly I don't really care, these are a massive upgrade, and like you said; I can always EQ if I want to make things a little more 'fun'.
• With regards to the little power to drive the headphones I have available right now, I actually found that my phone provided the most power lol. I'm playing this song using POWERAMP to increase the volume as well as apply the EQ settings you recommended. It sounds infinitely better than what's on my computer so I'm almost 100% sure the flatness was quite literally an inability to drive the headphones properly. If they sound this good on my Samsung s8, I can only imagine with a proper amp they'd sound incredible so all my worries have disappeared in that regard.
• Thanks very kindly for explaining amps, I've always been under the impression that tubes give 'warmth' to the sound and accentuate the mid range but this is literally just anecdotal information I've picked up online. I didn't even understand what the EQ settings were that you told me to change, I just changed them figuring you'd know better than I.

There are only a handful of things I'd like a little more clarity with, then I promise I'll stop asking so many questions.

Rather out of left field, but because I'll be driving the headphones through an amp soon, am I to assume that when I record for Youtube/Stream on twitch I should keep the volume at around 30% like I did with the ATH-M50X's and just turn the amp up so that I don't blow the viewers eardrums out? Or should I set the volume to 100% through Windows as well as the program/game I'm playing and then change the volume in post?
Basically, is it better to have the source volume high and turn the amp down, or source volume low and turn the amp up? Does it even make a difference?

Secondly,
I know the erm 'speed' of the bass (I can only describe it as the length at which the sound is present after the initial punch) won't be that long because the impedance of these phones isn't that high, but is there any way to increase the response time and punchiness? I'm sorry if my question isn't clear but I don't know the technical terms.

Finally,
If I were to record a review of these headphones, would I be discouraged from posting on Head-fi? I don't know the site rules against self promotion


Thank you very kindly for all of your help and support. Once I get the magni I'll be sure to try out your EQ advice and see how these phones are supposed to sound, except through my computer.

 

[Dulalala]

With regards to the little power to drive the headphones I have available right now, I actually found that my phone provided the most power lol. I'm playing this song using POWERAMP to increase the volume as well as apply the EQ settings you recommended. It sounds infinitely better than what's on my computer so I'm almost 100% sure the flatness was quite literally an inability to drive the headphones properly. If they sound this good on my Samsung s8, I can only imagine with a proper amp they'd sound incredible so all my worries

I highly doubt your computer would output less power than your phone. It's also not a very fair comparison to test your computer's output vs your phone's considering you're applying EQ on one.

Thanks very kindly for explaining amps, I've always been under the impression that tubes give 'warmth' to the sound and accentuate the mid range but this is literally just anecdotal information I've picked up online. I didn't even understand what the EQ settings were that you told me to change, I just changed them figuring you'd know better than I.

To be fair, a lot of tube amps have a mostly flat frequency response yet sound different. Tubes add harmonic distortion too so it's a bit unfair to say that you could with 100% certainty replicate the same effect with a parametric equalizer. Regardless, you could get some pretty good results though.

Rather out of left field, but because I'll be driving the headphones through an amp soon, am I to assume that when I record for Youtube/Stream on twitch I should keep the volume at around 30% like I did with the ATH-M50X's and just turn the amp up so that I don't blow the viewers eardrums out? Or should I set the volume to 100% through Windows as well as the program/game I'm playing and then change the volume in post?
Basically, is it better to have the source volume high and turn the amp down, or source volume low and turn the amp up?

I fail to understand what your amp volume has to do with your recording volume? Your microphone isn't even in the same chain as your headphones so just adjust your microphone with whatever software/hardware you were using prior.

Secondly,
I know the erm 'speed' of the bass (I can only describe it as the length at which the sound is present after the initial punch) won't be that long because the impedance of these phones isn't that high, but is there any way to increase the response time and punchiness? I'm sorry if my question isn't clear but I don't

Um no. The rated Impedance of the driver has nothing to do with the "bass speed". You can't really do much about it as that is determined by the driver of the headphone itself. What can affect the bass speed though is if you don't have sufficient electrical damping, which occurs when your source output impedance is too high.

Finally,
If I were to record a review of these headphones, would I be discouraged from posting on Head-fi? I don't know the site rules against self promotion

Nope! Go ahead! We won't bite. You can either post one in the impression thread of your headphone or on the Head Gear section of the site.

 

[TheCheshireCatt]

I highly doubt your computer would output less power than your phone. It's also not a very fair comparison to test your computer's output vs your phone's considering you're applying EQ on one.



To be fair, a lot of tube amps have a mostly flat frequency response yet sound different. Tubes add harmonic distortion too so it's a bit unfair to say that you could with 100% certainty replicate the same effect with a parametric equalizer. Regardless, you could get some pretty good results though.



I fail to understand what your amp volume has to do with your recording volume? Your microphone isn't even in the same chain as your headphones so just adjust your microphone with whatever software/hardware you were using prior.



Um no. The rated Impedance of the driver has nothing to do with the "bass speed". You can't really do much about it as that is determined by the driver of the headphone itself. What can affect the bass speed though is if you don't have sufficient electrical damping, which occurs when your source output impedance is too high.



Nope! Go ahead! We won't bite. You can either post one in the impression thread of your headphone or on the Head Gear section of the site.

1. I mean, you can doubt it if you want, the point still stands that at 100% Windows volume and 100% volume in whatever application I'm using, the phone can get louder and sounds much fuller regardless of EQ on or off. I tried EQ on my computer and it doesn't really help, the phone just drives them better.
2. I don't know what a parametric equaliser is, but assuming it's a fancy way of saying EQ, then I'd say I'm pretty happy with the limited tinkering I have done. Perhaps when I get a proper amp I'll mess with it more and do some more learning, I'm finding this whole experience very interesting.
3. You misunderstand, I'm not talking about microphone recording, I'm talking about desktop recording, as in, in-game audio and desktop sounds. Is it better to have the application volume low and the amp dial high (which is more comfortable for viewers), or is it better to have the application volume high and the amp volume low (which will blow out the users eardrums). Either way, I'll be hearing a comfortable audio level, but viewers won't. I'm mainly asking if amps benefit from a louder source or not to see if I can get away with having a lower application volume.
4. I was under the impression that having a higher impedance means that the amount of electrical energy/force required to move the driver is greater, and thus will spring back into place quicker as well.
5. I'll see what happens

 

[Cheffy]

Wow, you've really been a tonne of help, thank you so very much. The head-fi community is awesome. there's a couple of things to reply to but I'm too lazy to properly format so I'll just bullet point and reply in order of your points as I read them.

Glad to help where I can - I'm still learning myself, and feel compelled to pass on a little of it to make it easier for others.

Secondly,
I know the erm 'speed' of the bass (I can only describe it as the length at which the sound is present after the initial punch) won't be that long because the impedance of these phones isn't that high, but is there any way to increase the response time and punchiness? I'm sorry if my question isn't clear but I don't know the technical terms.

If the headphones are underpowered, the bass may be more muddy and bleed into the mids more. Properly powered, it can tighten up. This is usually only a concern on harder to drive headphones (e.g. 250 ohm DT770 or HD600s), but it might help things a little yet on yours.

When you get your amp, I'd suggest turning the source volume (i.e. via windows) to about 90%, then controlling the volume externally through your amp. I think with windows 8+ this doesn't matter too much, but in older versions it would degrade the sound quality by turning down the volume.

Bear in mind too that your headphones may need to "burn-in" a little still. Burn-in is a often debated topic, but especially with headphones, there are physical components that are moving. Use will "loosen" up the driver material a little, which may in turn influence sound. People often note differences after 20-150 hours of use. YMMV, but you may want to run the headphones on moderate volume even while you're not using them to help them burn in a little.

1. I mean, you can doubt it if you want, the point still stands that at 100% Windows volume and 100% volume in whatever application I'm using, the phone can get louder and sounds much fuller regardless of EQ on or off. I tried EQ on my computer and it doesn't really help, the phone just drives them better.
2. I don't know what a parametric equaliser is, but assuming it's a fancy way of saying EQ, then I'd say I'm pretty happy with the limited tinkering I have done. Perhaps when I get a proper amp I'll mess with it more and do some more learning, I'm finding this whole experience very interesting.
3. You misunderstand, I'm not talking about microphone recording, I'm talking about desktop recording, as in, in-game audio and desktop sounds. Is it better to have the application volume low and the amp dial high (which is more comfortable for viewers), or is it better to have the application volume high and the amp volume low (which will blow out the users eardrums). Either way, I'll be hearing a comfortable audio level, but viewers won't. I'm mainly asking if amps benefit from a louder source or not to see if I can get away with having a lower application volume.
4. I was under the impression that having a higher impedance means that the amount of electrical energy/force required to move the driver is greater, and thus will spring back into place quicker as well.
5. I'll see what happens

I don't doubt that the sounds is louder/better from the phone. A lot of phones have better DACs and may output more voltage than a computer line out since a big part of their target audiences use them as portable music devices. A lot a people report better audio from their phones than even many dedicated portable amps.

Yes, a parametric equaliser is just a fancy EQ. It basically adjusts the whole range of frequencies by tugging at different points along a line from low to high. I'd keep it simple for now - EQing can be a very complicated affair, and better to start with small moves.

Enjoy

 

[TheCheshireCatt]

Glad to help where I can - I'm still learning myself, and feel compelled to pass on a little of it to make it easier for others.



If the headphones are underpowered, the bass may be more muddy and bleed into the mids more. Properly powered, it can tighten up. This is usually only a concern on harder to drive headphones (e.g. 250 ohm DT770 or HD600s), but it might help things a little yet on yours.

When you get your amp, I'd suggest turning the source volume (i.e. via windows) to about 90%, then controlling the volume externally through your amp. I think with windows 8+ this doesn't matter too much, but in older versions it would degrade the sound quality by turning down the volume.

Bear in mind too that your headphones may need to "burn-in" a little still. Burn-in is a often debated topic, but especially with headphones, there are physical components that are moving. Use will "loosen" up the driver material a little, which may in turn influence sound. People often note differences after 20-150 hours of use. YMMV, but you may want to run the headphones on moderate volume even while you're not using them to help them burn in a little.



I don't doubt that the sounds is louder/better from the phone. A lot of phones have better DACs and may output more voltage than a computer line out since a big part of their target audiences use them as portable music devices. A lot a people report better audio from their phones than even many dedicated portable amps.

Yes, a parametric equaliser is just a fancy EQ. It basically adjusts the whole range of frequencies by tugging at different points along a line from low to high. I'd keep it simple for now - EQing can be a very complicated affair, and better to start with small moves.

Enjoy

That's where I was coming from, as my old Beyerdynamics had quite a high impedance and they 'returned to 0' a lot quicker than what I've been using since.
Thanks for the advice with the source volume, I guess when I record games or whatever I'll just have to set the recording level a lot lower.
When burning in, will it make a difference that my headphones aren't currently amped? I mean, they're going to be used on a daily basis anyways so they'll burn in naturally over time, but obviously right now I'm not amping them until my next paycheck.

 

[Cheffy]

That's where I was coming from, as my old Beyerdynamics had quite a high impedance and they 'returned to 0' a lot quicker than what I've been using since.
Thanks for the advice with the source volume, I guess when I record games or whatever I'll just have to set the recording level a lot lower.
When burning in, will it make a difference that my headphones aren't currently amped? I mean, they're going to be used on a daily basis anyways so they'll burn in naturally over time, but obviously right now I'm not amping them until my next paycheck.

Naw, won't make a difference. Just enjoy.

 

[Dulalala]

I mean, you can doubt it if you want, the point still stands that at 100% Windows volume and 100% volume in whatever application I'm using, the phone can get louder and sounds much fuller regardless of EQ on or off. I tried EQ on my computer and it doesn't really help, the phone just drives them better.

Well it's a good thing you have your phone then!

I don't know what a parametric equaliser is, but assuming it's a fancy way of saying EQ, then I'd say I'm pretty happy with the limited tinkering I have done. Perhaps when I get a proper amp I'll mess with it more and do some more learning, I'm finding this whole experience very interesting.

Not exactly. A parametric EQ is a type of EQ. There are many type different EQ.

You misunderstand, I'm not talking about microphone recording, I'm talking about desktop recording, as in, in-game audio and desktop sounds. Is it better to have the application volume low and the amp dial high (which is more comfortable for viewers), or is it better to have the application volume high and the amp volume low (which will blow out the users eardrums). Either way, I'll be hearing a comfortable audio level, but viewers won't. I'm mainly asking if amps benefit from a louder source or not to see if I can get away with having a lower application volume.

Ah ok sorry my bad. In that case, I would recommend you keep the game sound lower (within the game settings) and with windows, set it at around 75-100%. Use that for maintaining a good sound level for the audience. You can adjust the rest with your amp for your personal listening.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

If the headphones are underpowered, the bass may be more muddy and bleed into the mids more.

That's not exactly true. It really depends on the headphone.

Yes, a parametric equaliser is just a fancy EQ

I'd argue its one of the less fancier EQ... It's relatively simple compared to most DSP and EQ.

 

[Cheffy]

That's not exactly true. It really depends on the headphone.

You need to consider the statement in it's entirety:

If the headphones are underpowered, the bass may be more muddy and bleed into the mids more. Properly powered, it can tighten up. This is usually only a concern on harder to drive headphones (e.g. 250 ohm DT770 or HD600s), but it might help things a little yet on your

I highlighted the parts where I specifically indicated that it depends on the headphone, and it might help here.

I'd argue its one of the less fancier EQ... It's relatively simple compared to most DSP and EQ.

It's not especially complicated, but my response - which gave four categorical ranges of frequency and suggested increase/decreases - is pretty straightforward, easily interpreted by OP, and seemed to satisfy their needs.

 

[Dulalala]

I highlighted the parts where I specifically indicated that it depends on the headphone, and it might help here.

You need to consider the statement in it's entirety:

I highlighted the parts where I specifically indicated that it depends on the headphone, and it might help here.

Yep, you're right. Sorry my bad!

 

[Cheffy]

Yep, you're right. Sorry my bad!

No worries! We're all trying to help here, and learn a little on the way. I appreciate your input.

 

[TheCheshireCatt]

Not trying to necro the thread or anything but my Schiit fulla 2 arrived today, will be posting a review/my thoughts alongside a video methinks.