[TheCheshireCatt]

Hello all,

May I just start by apologising beforehand for doing the typical thing and only coming here to ask for help. I'm currently running a pair of ATH-M50X's which I really don't like after my old DT770's broke, and I'm looking for a new pair of headphones, but I'm not entirely sure what would be best for the music I listen to, as well as the hardware I have to drive it all.

Here's a bunch of information that would perhaps help in providing me advice:

• I primarily listen to progressive metal and 'djent' (if you want to call it a genre) as well as bands like Pink Floyd and Opeth, and I also listen to classical as well as drum and bass. Whilst I know it isn't helpful, I listen to just about anything but those are my primary tastes.
• I primarily would be using the headphones to play games, followed by listening to music and then watching movies, however I'd imagine a pair that's good for music with a nice open sound stage is probably good for all 3.
• I'd like an open sound stage so open back is preferred.
• I don't mind extended high's from the likes of the DT990 Pros (assuming they aren't too sibilant or fatiguing, I've never used them) and I also don't mind strong bass, I'm quite flexible, so long as the headphones are fun and well suited for my uses and tastes of genres of music.
• I don't currently have a discrete AMP/DAC, and I run off've the onboard isolated sound chip on my z170m Mortar.

I currently own a Behringer U-Phoria um2 to drive my AT-2020 microphone, and it has a headphone out. Will this be sufficient as an AMP/DAC? I'm assuming not, and I understand if I have to buy a new one.

I will most likely only ever use these headphones when at my pc, however if there is a recommended portable amp/dac for me to use with my Samsung s8, that would be a bonus to get more value out of my setup.

Budget is realistically below £400, I was considering something along the lines of the Sennheiser HD650's coupled with a Fiio EK10, but I wasn't sure if this would be ideal with the music I listen to as well as playing games and watching movies.



Is there anything better suited to me based on my tastes, setup and budget? I don't mind if I have to go slightly over if it means I get a much better setup.

 

[cossix]

If you want something for gaming, don't bother with the 650 really. The E10k also isn't great to power them. I'd recommend you look at the Fidelio X2 or the AKG K712 (WITH BETTER AMP). The AKG are power hungry and would need something like a Magni 3. The 650 is great for music but has a really small soundstage and isn't the most exciting headphone (it's very relaxed) which means it falls short with metal or similar genres. I like it most for vocal tracks and acoustic genres.

 

[TheCheshireCatt]

If you want something for gaming, don't bother with the 650 really. The E10k also isn't great to power them. I'd recommend you look at the Fidelio X2 or the AKG K712 (WITH BETTER AMP). The AKG are power hungry and would need something like a Magni 3. The 650 is great for music but has a really small soundstage and isn't the most exciting headphone (it's very relaxed) which means it falls short with metal or similar genres. I like it most for vocal tracks and acoustic genres.

Thanks for your suggestion. I'm aware that all headphones generally benefit from an amp, but is one really necessary since the K712 pro's are only 62Ohms? I'm not really that well versed in good headphones etc.

 

[ahmadfaizadnan]

Fidelio x2 would be a good choice if you don't wanna bother about amp

 

[Dulalala]

Thanks for your suggestion. I'm aware that all headphones generally benefit from an amp, but is one really necessary since the K712 pro's are only 62Ohms? I'm not really that well versed in good headphones etc.

Impedance does not directly correlate to power required to hit a certain SPL. It's a combination of both the sensitivity rating of the headphone and the impedance. A high sensitivity and high impedance headphone could easily require less power than a low sensitivity and low impedance headphone.

 

[TheCheshireCatt]

Impedance does not directly to power required to hit a certain SPL. It's a combination of both the sensitivity rating of the headphone and the impedance. A high sensitivity and high impedance headphone could easily require less power than a low sensitivity and low impedance headphone.

I see, sorry for my misunderstanding.

So is the general consensus from everyone that I should just go for the AKG K712 pro's? They're actually quite a lot cheaper than the HD650's so this works out really nicely if that's the case.

 

[TheCheshireCatt]

I just noticed that massdrop are doing AKG 7XX's based on the K702's, and HD 6XX's based on the HD650's. Should I take these into consideration? Or will they not provide the sound I'm looking for? I mean, I'd be saving around £100 if I were to buy either of them which could go towards a good AMP/DAC.
Also, speaking of DACs, is one recommended considering the isolated sound chip on my motherboard is pretty good? I'm not the type of person that really enjoys messing with EQ settings, if getting a specific DAC makes all the difference.

Back when I had my DT770 pro's, I literally had a hand-me-down Fiio portable amp and that's it.

 

[ahmadfaizadnan]

I just noticed that massdrop are doing AKG 7XX's based on the K702's, and HD 6XX's based on the HD650's. Should I take these into consideration? Or will they not provide the sound I'm looking for? I mean, I'd be saving around £100 if I were to buy either of them which could go towards a good AMP/DAC.
Also, speaking of DACs, is one recommended considering the isolated sound chip on my motherboard is pretty good? I'm not the type of person that really enjoys messing with EQ settings, if getting a specific DAC makes all the difference.

Back when I had my DT770 pro's, I literally had a hand-me-down Fiio portable amp and that's it.

If you can bare the waiting time, the HD6XX is an awesome value headphone. I've heard both old and new version of the HD6XX and I thought the newer version has more sparkle and tighter bass.

 

[TheCheshireCatt]

If you can bare the waiting time, the HD6XX is an awesome value headphone. I've heard both old and new version of the HD6XX and I thought the newer version has more sparkle and tighter bass.

Would you say it would suit my music tastes as well as be good for gaming and watching movies?

Also I hate to be a pain in the arse, but what kind of amp would you recommend? I've heard the 650's REALLY benefit from a tube amp to make the mids all the more buttery smooth, but I've also heard that there are no 'good' and 'cheap' tube amps. I don't have infinite amounts of money to work with.

 

[Grimbles]

Ifi nano idsd black label plus hd6xx and some pocket change

 

[Cheffy]

I just noticed that massdrop are doing AKG 7XX's based on the K702's, and HD 6XX's based on the HD650's. Should I take these into consideration? Or will they not provide the sound I'm looking for? I mean, I'd be saving around £100 if I were to buy either of them which could go towards a good AMP/DAC.
Also, speaking of DACs, is one recommended considering the isolated sound chip on my motherboard is pretty good? I'm not the type of person that really enjoys messing with EQ settings, if getting a specific DAC makes all the difference.

Back when I had my DT770 pro's, I literally had a hand-me-down Fiio portable amp and that's it.

If your primary goal is gaming, as noted, the AKG-7XX might be your best bet as it has better imaging and sound stage. You'll still get excellent musicality from them. The HD6xx are more of a music focused headphone.

I didn't hear a budget, but if you're trying to keep it inexpensive I would suggest considering the Philips SHP9500s headphones. They offer very good quality sound and reasonable soundstage for less than half the price of the AKG-7xx. They're a very comfortable and good all round headphone, frequently on sale for 60-70$ from newegg.com.

As for an amp/DAC, depends on what headphones you get. You could save on the DAC and pick up an O2 amp from massdrop for $95 and run it via your line-out on your PC. It will meet your current and future desktop needs, and you can always pick up a dedicated external DAC for it later on., However, this isn't very portable, so if that's what you're after i'd recommend the dragonfly black or red models. The black is half the price and a truly excellent little amp but might not be enough to drive the AKGs to their full potential. The more powerful red model can definitely drive the AKG-7xx if that's what you're looking for, and will provide even better sound detail.

 

[TheCheshireCatt]

If your primary goal is gaming, as noted, the AKG-7XX might be your best bet as it has better imaging and sound stage. You'll still get excellent musicality from them. The HD6xx are more of a music focused headphone.

I didn't hear a budget, but if you're trying to keep it inexpensive I would suggest considering the Philips SHP9500s headphones. They offer very good quality sound and reasonable soundstage for less than half the price of the AKG-7xx. They're a very comfortable and good all round headphone, frequently on sale for 60-70$ from newegg.com.

As for an amp/DAC, depends on what headphones you get. You could save on the DAC and pick up an O2 amp from massdrop for $95 and run it via your line-out on your PC. It will meet your current and future desktop needs, and you can always pick up a dedicated external DAC for it later on., However, this isn't very portable, so if that's what you're after i'd recommend the dragonfly black or red models. The black is half the price and a truly excellent little amp but might not be enough to drive the AKGs to their full potential. The more powerful red model can definitely drive the AKG-7xx if that's what you're looking for, and will provide even better sound detail.

Would you suggest the AKG-7XX's over the K712 Pro's? And what would be good enough to drive both of them, using an amp that doesn't distort too much at high levels on the off chance I do listen to classical or jazz etc. probably won't buy a DAC any time soon and portable is definitely not necessary, was just something nice to have if it would be possible.

Overall budget is around £400 but obviously the less money I can spend the better. I don't mind going over budget by like £50 or so if it means I get a vastly better product/experience.

 

[Cheffy]

Would you suggest the AKG-7XX's over the K712 Pro's? And what would be good enough to drive both of them, using an amp that doesn't distort too much at high levels on the off chance I do listen to classical or jazz etc. probably won't buy a DAC any time soon and portable is definitely not necessary, was just something nice to have if it would be possible.

Overall budget is around £400 but obviously the less money I can spend the better. I don't mind going over budget by like £50 or so if it means I get a vastly better product/experience.

I've not listened to either, so I can't comment. The general consensus from what I've read is that they're really similar - the AKG-712 edges out as the better phone, but just barely, and for someone who only listened to the 7xx they'd never realise what they're missing. The price difference is considerable. I was going to buy the AKG-7xx but decided in the end to just go for the SHP9500 and see how I liked open-backed phones first. I'm so impressed with the SHP9500 that I really don't feel the need to upgrade any time soon!

I have the dragonfly black and it's an amazing little wonder. It really cleans up the sound, improves the detail and soundstage, and gives a little more bass kick and extension. I've not listened to the red, but as above, the consensus is that it is more detailed and clear, while the black is slightly warmer. I was going to buy the red to compare them, but ended up buying an O2 amp and OL-DAC from JDS laboratories (it hasn't arrived yet). The O2/ODAC is an "open source" design originally conceived as a proof of concept that it could provide sound quality as good as more expensive offerings for much less. Whether that's the case is hotly debated by many, but there's no questioning it produces an extremely high quality, detailed, and transparent sound. You can buy the amp with a 1x/3.5x gain option or a 2.5x/6.5x option. I selected the former since it will match my OL-DAC better and I won't need 6.5x gain. The aesthetics are simple black and utilitarian, which appeals to some but not others.

Schiit Audio makes a comparable product (magni amp /modi DAC stack) for a comparable price ($99 for each plus shipping), but with a more refined look. The Magni 3 It offers a 2x/7x gain option. I just about picked this one up, but I realised even a 2x gain might be a bit excessive for my easy to drive headphones. Plus I found "b-stock" on the JDS website and they were offering a free shipping promo, so I took that deal of an amp and DAC (separate units, not the combined one) for $181 USD total shipped. With the $50 SHP9500s headphones I picked up on sale, that brings my total to $230 for an amp, DAC, and good headphones (before taxes). It's due to arrive this week so I'm still waiting on it to arrive to hear it for myself.

For £400 you should be able to get the AKG-7xx and a good desktop amp, and even a DAC. Not sure what your local options are, but I imagine shipping to the UK from the USA will be a bit expensive and might push that over your budget.

 

[TheCheshireCatt]

I've not listened to either, so I can't comment. The general consensus from what I've read is that they're really similar - the AKG-712 edges out as the better phone, but just barely, and for someone who only listened to the 7xx they'd never realise what they're missing. The price difference is considerable. I was going to buy the AKG-7xx but decided in the end to just go for the SHP9500 and see how I liked open-backed phones first. I'm so impressed with the SHP9500 that I really don't feel the need to upgrade any time soon!...

...For £400 you should be able to get the AKG-7xx and a good desktop amp, and even a DAC. Not sure what your local options are, but I imagine shipping to the UK from the USA will be a bit expensive and might push that over your budget.

I've heard of Schiit and the O2, so it's likely I'd go for one of those. The magni looks good for the price, I'm just a little apprehensive about picking something not 'strong' enough. I'm actually kinda surprised that the general consensus here is that the AKG's would be best for me, you're the only person to suggest something else and cheaper at that.
From looking around the K7XX's are just K702's with cheaper build quality, whilst the K712's are an objective upgrade, so I don't really mind shelling out the extra couple of shekels.

 

[Grimbles]

Honestly mate, look at futureshop.co.uk for the ifi nano idsd black, and shiipping via massdrop to blighty isnt bad (but remember you have to pay your vat) for the k7xx or hd6xx. Schiit stack works out expensive ish because you end up with another c.50 squids of import duties and vat. Or I did last month anyway!