The Sennheiser Orpheus 2? A First Look At The Sennheiser HE-1 (The New Orpheus)
Nov 3, 2015 at 3:51 PM Post #137 of 2,918
The new Orpheus is indeed a milestone and from the headphone community perspective a great moment in time. I liked Jude's video a lot. As the man is the Head-Fi MASTER I boldly and wildly propose to just buy him one of these ultimate toys.
 
11.000 people to bring in $5 a head. The 2016 challenge?
 
Nov 3, 2015 at 4:02 PM Post #139 of 2,918
I am  dubious about the fact that this is a "system,"  and curious as to whether Sennheiser  have really come up with a better "headphone" or rather a "system"  where we do not know what is the respective contribution of the parts of the system. Whereas the original Orpheus could be run on other systems, this one may very well not be compatible with other equipment.  As such Sennheiser may not have actually produced a better headphone, but rather a very refined and expensive  "system."
 
It may very well be that some or all of the apparent quality of this system has more to do with the amp and dac  than with the phones themselves. If it is  not possible to test the phones away from the rest of the system it may be impossible to find out .  Because  the phones have  some kind of built-in amplification in the earcups  we may end up not knowing what is truly going on. 
 
The use of  amplification in the earcups  is not a new idea,   Koss did this in the 60's with its ESP 6 which had  step-up transformers in the
earcups.  Not quite identical but a definite conceptual  resemblance.
.
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/234504/koss-esp6-refurbished-vintage-electrostatics
 
For my part I have been exploring an unexamined problem with headphone design, namely mechanical resonance in the earcups, and I wonder if Sennheiser has got on top of this problem..
 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/744839/damping-mechanical-resonance-distortion-of-stax-and-other-phones-with-sorbothane-and-other-materials   
 
Earcup resonance iseems to be  a universal problem. Drivers do not merely push energy out into the air ( and your ears) but in accordance with Newton's third law of physics, back into the earcup as well.   How do I know this, because when I, and others add sorbothane damping material to the cups, sound can get a lot better, in timbre, dynamics and becomes less harsh.  Sennheiser probably has some knowledge of this issue  because they dropped a number of hints some years years ago in their adverts to the HD800. that resemble what us sorbers are doing.
 
They claimed to employ visco elastic damping, ( could be sorbothane) at least in the headband.

"The headband consists of a sandwich design in which a metal layer is covered with several layers of plastic. The high-tech plastic possesses incredible attenuation characteristics and ensures that oscillations are not transmitted to the headphone mountings. “
 
If they solved the resonance problem in these phones then I would tell anyone who is impressed by them that $1.00 worth of sorbothane can do remarkable things to your current phones. If there are still resonance issues with the new Senns  then I would say save your money.  You can  buy some very fine upgrades to your system as well as a truckload of sorbothane for a lot less than $50,000.00.
 
I would be able to tell if Sennheiser got the resonance issue right by applying sorbothane to various locations on the phones, possibly inside  the earcups.  However this is  something  I doubt I will ever have the opportunity to do.  
 
I should add that you can also get rid of a lot of vibrational resonance issues with the strategic application of sorbothane on amps, dacs and the like. The use of marble for this purpose seems gratuitous as does the motor driven lid, knobs etc.  Just more expense and  more things to eventually need repair. 
 
In my opinion even though I am sure it is a good product  this system does  not represent  good engineering, it is flashy and over-engineered and in consequence over-priced.  And it remains to be seen how good the headphones are outside of the system. 
 
 
 
 
Nov 3, 2015 at 4:20 PM Post #140 of 2,918
What's interesting is that I listened to the original Orpheus next to the SR-009, A/B'ing them on the BHSE with my favorite songs for about 30 minutes. 
 
After listening to the SR-009, then the Orpheus, I found the SR-009 to be far superior for my tastes. Yes, the Orpheus was warmer, but that was about it. The SR-009 was technically superior in every single aspect I could check for, and absolutely blew away the likes of the HD-800 when I compared them. In contrast, the Orpheus left me wondering what the fuss was all about. The SR-009 is virtual perfection for me.
 
I'm about a year away from owning the SR-009/BHSE system, which I know clearly outclasses the original Orpheus. so what I'm curious about is how the new Orpheus stacks up against the current king of the hill, especially at 500% of the price. One might argue the materials used in the new Orpheus makes the price difference more justifiable, but I find it hard to agree with that statement, since I automatically prefer the looks of the SR-009/BHSE to the new Orpheus' gaudier design.
 
Nov 3, 2015 at 4:24 PM Post #142 of 2,918
i think Sennheiser need to give people a choice to buy the headphone alone or the all system,  the headphone  will cost less for the consumers and they can drive it with which amp they think is right for the headphones. this way Sennheiser will have profit and consumers too. many more will buy it if it will cost only 15-30k headphone itself, it will accessible to wider range of consumers. and other who prefer to buy the all package including the amp (rich guys) will pay 55k, everyone will profit... but it will not happend because this is some special product for the ultrta high end pockets.
 
Nov 3, 2015 at 4:24 PM Post #143 of 2,918
Honestly, I just want to see a head to head shoot-out review of ONLY the HE1060 headphones along with all the other headphones that we all consider truly "summit-fi" here at Head-Fi. Headphones like the Sony MDR-R10, Sennheiser HE60 / HE90, Audeze LCD-4, Hifiman HE1000, Sennheiser HD800S, Abyss AB-1266, etc. The review would use one amp for the electro-stats / one amp for the normal headphones and then the same source and DAC for both amps. This way the reviewer(s) could easily find out how much "better" the HE1060 apparently is versus all the other headphones that cost less than 1/10th the price of the HE1060 / HEV1060 rig.
 
I feel that having a review like the one stated above is the only real way to "justify" the price of these headphones. Not that they really require justification in the first place though. I would just really like to see the review, or at the very least a detailed measurement sheet for the HE1060 done by someone other than Sennheiser themselves. If they are going to come out and say that it is truly the best I want to see some outside sources and hard facts backing it up! Just my two cents though.
 
P.S. - Good luck to all potential buyers!
 
- InsanityOne 
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Nov 3, 2015 at 4:38 PM Post #144 of 2,918
 
$55,000 dollars for a pair of headphones....$15,000 yes IMO thats acceptable, $20,000 maybe at a push...but $55,000!!
 
You really need help if you think that's acceptable...
 
and i want to make this clear so listen up...I'M NOT DEFENDING ANYONE...

 
Well to be fair, it's $55,000 for the headphone system :)
 
I think what we need to understand here is that this has never been planned as a mass produce. It's like haute couture. The term refers to any unique stylish design made to order for wealthy and high-status clients. It's  made from high-quality, expensive fabric and sewn with extreme attention to detail and finish, often using state of the art techniques. It represents the best in fashion.
 
Though couture garments no longer tend to make a profit for the designer because of the extreme expense of creating them, couture still exists to create an aura of glamour and strengthen the brand.  Not everyone can afford it, but that's what ready-to-wear is for. 
 
Viewing a designer's haute couture collection can also act as a window into the creative process, and is often the starting point for the designer's ready-to-wear collections. 
 
Try and think of it like a pyramid. The haute couture is the 'parfum', and it has a huge influence on the ready-to-wear and accessories. We can call these the 'eu de parfum' and the 'eu de toilette'.
 
Everything takes its inspiration from the haute couture. 
 
Nov 3, 2015 at 4:38 PM Post #145 of 2,918
 
$55,000 dollars for a pair of headphones....$15,000 yes IMO thats acceptable, $20,000 maybe at a push...but $55,000!!
 
You really need help if you think that's acceptable...
 
and i want to make this clear so listen up...I'M NOT DEFENDING ANYONE...

 
as pointed out earlier, it's not $55k for headphones. There a DAC and Amp, and custom tubes and a storage area for the headphone and tubes. It also includes the cables to connect the DAC to the Amp (they are internal) and the cable to the headphone. In fact, I think the headphones are free, but only when a DAC/Amp is purchased!
 
Nov 3, 2015 at 5:02 PM Post #147 of 2,918
I am aware that it's an amp/headphone combination. But i think that headphones are more finite than speakers when it comes to pushing the boundaries. If i was a millionare (fingers crossed it happens one day
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) i would probably own multi thousand dollar speakers and multi thousand dollar amps/players to go with them...but IMO headphones can't really get any better once you reach Audeze LCD 3 or Stax SR-009 or HD800's or those weird Abysse headphones. I think any increase in performance from then upwards would be minimal and not worth a crazy 55G pricetag...again i'll say it - 15G i'd pay that, 20G maybe. But even if i was a millionare i wouldn't part with 55 just for a pair of headphones and an amp.
 
And i thought LCD 3's sounded like the voice of god...what more could you want than that!
 
Nov 3, 2015 at 5:10 PM Post #148 of 2,918
Come to think of it. I really don't need this phone as I'm in it for the music, and for that my $35 Carbo Tenores + my $195 FiiO X3 2nd gen satisfies my musical needs to 75 %. To reach 100 % (or near it) I now and then spend another $30 or so on a live concert in a church or concert hall. I guarantee that beats the sound quality of this $55,000 phone. Just realized I can go to approx. 1,800 concerts with perfect sound by definition instead of buying this phone. I think I'll do that instead... 
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Nov 3, 2015 at 5:20 PM Post #149 of 2,918
I wonder how heavy the headphones are considering their ear cups are basically big heatsinks and the amps are integrated...
 

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