[Music Alchemist]

  He's talking current HD800 fit. No changes on it for HD800S AFAIK

 
On that note, it's going to get confusing when people talk about the HD 800 in the plural sense and confuse it with the HD 800S.

 

[VandyMan]

 
Also the fit to the head was at least to me not at that level which the HD 800 offer.

 

  He's talking current HD800 fit. 

 
That is not what he wrote. I agree with you re the changes made for the 800S. His claim that the fit changed, makes me take the other comments with a grain of salt. I also think it is unlikely that anyone can measure the level as 110 dB by ear.

 

[Ali-Pacha]

Not native, sorry. He speaks german, I'm French, so it seems we are both looking at the general background (Orpheus vs. rest of the world) and not always referring to the last sentence, which may indeed be a little bit confusing.
German people have no problems in buffering infos and use them later in a speech...that's the way german language works, verb at the end of the sentence is pretty common 

Headphones are singular in both languages too, so easy for us to distinguish HD800S from regular HD800 

 
Ali

 

[VandyMan]

My apologies to both of you if this was a "translation" error. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[hrklg01]

Hello,
 
You are right - nobody can judge the correct SPL level. 
It's a fact that especially very good and low distorting headphones make listener believe that the SPL level is still low!
However the way how I judged it was with an app which was calibrated just the morning before and after the judgement controlled too.
 
Kind regards,
heinz

 

[hrklg01]

About the distortions - I agree with you!
It's really very difficult to judge those, especially if a transducer (headphone) offer that great high frequency level.
Without measurement equipment it's almost not possible to judge...
However, I think with my long time experience and developer of high end headphones of about 45 years listening to high class audio equipment I would confidence.
But you are right - we will see if we see real measurements and especially with final products and not prototypes.
BR heinz

 

[hrklg01]

Yes! Sorry causing any confusions when I talked about the fit to the ear and head....
Of course the new Orpheus is great, However - to my own head the HD800 and HD800S are better.
I know it's an individual impression, but it is like it is!
.....

 

[FritzS]

I heard them too, but the time are to short, and I don't have my preferred music to test them serious.
 
But for the difference from 1000 .... 5000 EUR/USD to about 50.000 EUR/USD  I expect more.
 
The difference between HD800 and HD800s are not not big - HD800s is not sharpen.
 
But with lute music I liked HD800 more, he offers more metallic of the strings, the HD800s are a little bit to smooth for me.
 
Its only my personal evaluation - not an absolute benchmark!

 

[Sal1950]

   
If you don't get pleasure from this hobby then what's the point? 
 
Maybe just hang the frequency response graph on the wall and look at it.  Then you can appreciate the feat of engineering that doesn't necessarily bring enjoyment.

You speak of this "hobby" as if it's some sort toy who's only purpose is to give you pleasure when you play with it.  If that's the goal all you need is any half decent system, then add a parametric equalizer and play with it till you reach your Nirvana.
For well over 50 years I've been trying to put together systems that reproduce what the microphone heard and put onto the source as accurately as possible.  The best chance you have of getting the real sound of musicians playing right there in your room starts with technically accurate equipment. Yes, they need flat frequency response, low harmonic and IM distortion,  good impulse response, etc, etc, etc. If your gear doesn't contain all these attributes from the start you'll have no chance of getting a system capable of accurate reproduction. (Tools not toys)  

 

[icebear]

....  
As an acoustician and former headphone and microphone developer of course, I tried to judge the headphone itself much more than the amplifier.
Please understand that there was limited time only and may be a lot of my following comments are a result of this fact.
 
To my impression, the maximum sound pressure level where the headphone does not have too much distortion is relatively low.
Low means...: I checked it out with approx. 110 dB SPL (no filter!) and with simple music like Dire Straits it started to become distorted. I mean with simple music not the music itself, I mean the Crest factor. Or in other words it's not a music which force headphones dramatically.
... Best regards,
Heinz

 
 

  Hello,
 
You are right - nobody can judge the correct SPL level. 
It's a fact that especially very good and low distorting headphones make listener believe that the SPL level is still low!
However the way how I judged it was with an app which was calibrated just the morning before and after the judgement controlled too.
 
Kind regards,
heinz

 
Hello Heinz,
 
thanks for your detailed descriptions on listening to the Orpheus II. The distortions are obviously not a one person impression from the prototype shown in Vienna.
Maybe something is wrong but then the Sennheiser folks should stop demonstrating it right away.
 
Not that I particularly care about how the Dire Straits sound

but classical orchestral music will at peak level exceed 110 dB for short periods. And not that I care too much about the Orpheus II as it so far out of reach but at least I wanted to make an effort listening to it when the opportunity come up in the NY area. So I'm not even sure if I should make that effort at all and just enjoy my HD800 set up.

 

[mulder01]

  You speak of this "hobby" as if it's some sort toy who's only purpose is to give you pleasure when you play with it.  If that's the goal all you need is any half decent system, then add a parametric equalizer and play with it till you reach your Nirvana.
For well over 50 years I've been trying to put together systems that reproduce what the microphone heard and put onto the source as accurately as possible.  The best chance you have of getting the real sound of musicians playing right there in your room starts with technically accurate equipment. Yes, they need flat frequency response, low harmonic and IM distortion,  good impulse response, etc, etc, etc. If your gear doesn't contain all these attributes from the start you'll have no chance of getting a system capable of accurate reproduction. (Tools not toys)  

 
I mentioned a number of times that I agree that accuracy is important, but I believe you get excellent accuracy out of what's already available.  The challenge is to have something very accurate but also nice to listen to.  Without the second part, there's no point.  Maybe you like your music super flat but the vast majority of people don't.

 

[Music Alchemist]

  I mentioned a number of times that I agree that accuracy is important, but I believe you get excellent accuracy out of what's already available.  The challenge is to have something very accurate but also nice to listen to.  Without the second part, there's no point.  Maybe you like your music super flat but the vast majority of people don't.

 
Conversely, I think the problem is that some equipment purported to be accurate is anything but. That's the real issue, from how I see things. If it's truly accurate, then it will sound like the music itself sounds, and thus if you don't like the sound on such a system, your problem would be with the music, not the system. (Of course, no system is perfectly accurate.) Also, tests have been done with loudspeakers that indicate most people prefer the sound of a system that is tuned flat, ie neutral. (I hope everyone reading this realizes that when I say flat, I don't mean the measurements are a flat line, since both speakers and headphones use compensation curves.)

 

[georgep]

Hi Guys,
 
Long time - no see!  
 
Just had the chance to listen and check out the new Orpheus prototype at the fair in Austria named "Klangbilder".
 
First of all I want to thank you the guys of Sennheiser to give me that chance!
 
However as this product is really placed at the top end - I want to be very critical, even it was still a prototype.
 
To my impression, the DAC, Amplifier well placed in an solid Marble stone is really great!
Sorry, I do not have better words for it! If I would find it in my brain I would use - really!
 
As an acoustician and former headphone and microphone developer of course, I tried to judge the headphone itself much more than the amplifier.
Please understand that there was limited time only and may be a lot of my following comments are a result of this fact.
 
To my impression, the maximum sound pressure level where the headphone does not have too much distortion is relatively low.
Low means...: I checked it out with approx. 110 dB SPL (no filter!) and with simple music like Dire Straits it started to become distorted. I mean with simple music not the music itself, I mean the Crest factor. Or in other words it's not a music which force headphones dramatically.
 
Another impression was, that the sound stage - or may be better - the spatial imaging was also not really great.
Of course this is wailing at a high level, but for about 50.000,- € !!??
Just before I got the chance to listen to the new HD 800s... My impression it offered a larger surrounding.
 
Also the fit to the head was at least to me not at that level which the HD 800 offer.
 
Ok, enough bad criticism:
What really is great and may be more than great was the overall acoustic balance to my ears.
I never had that experience before!
All instruments sound naturally. The impression is really great and no other headphone offered it at that level in the past.
Nobody will have the need of any sound correction by equalisation or so! The air volume between the membrane and the human ear is large enough to be sure, that individual ear sizes will not change this impression.
 
Overall a really great headphone! Please be reminded that I criticise on really high level based and related to the expected sales price.
On the other hand, the product is still not on the market and may be, my critic could give Axel Grell and his team at Sennheiser the chance to adapt the next sample runs a bit.
 
Best regards,
Heinz

Certainly helpful comments. But might help to provide some perspective if you could indicate what other top headphones/amps you are familiar with (apart from k1000 obviously) when you say instruments sound natural in a way not accomplished by other headphones.

 

[phonomat]

(Tools not toys)  

Well, that's just the point, innit? Tools are for work, and toys are for playing; yes, sometimes even for playing music.
You know how the saying goes: All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. (And sometimes it makes for a pretty dull headphone as well.)

 

[jibzilla]

Are we looking at another spec. wars for headphones? This happened for TT's quite a while ago. I would say the most notable was Technics with the sl-1200 and incredibly low wow and flutter for incredibly cheap prices back in the late 90's to early 2000's, sometimes only $200 new if an mk2 model, pawn shops as low as $100. Still the belt drive clan had their say and it was not good for the sl-1200 despite the specs with many claiming technics lied about the specs.
 
I personally think it is a balancing act. Some say numbers don't lie and I do respect the specs...but my Apex Teton measure's so-so and will beat the pants off any other headphone amp.