[FullCircle]

You tell me. That was one of the questions I hoped to see answered when I posted this thread.

I don't contend that driver count should necessarily be in the evaluation process

 

[b0ck3n]

I don't contend that driver count should necessarily be in the evaluation process

So far we've heard that more drivers ~ louder (to me that would be the chief reason why it could be part of the evaluation process) and more customizable FR. Do you have anything to add?

 

[FullCircle]

Implementation is the key.

More doesnt necessarily = louder if impedance isn't taken into consideration in the design.

 

[piotrus-g]

So far we've heard that more drivers ~ louder (to me that would be the chief reason why it could be part of the evaluation process) and more customizable FR. Do you have anything to add?

More doesnt necessarily = louder if impedance isn't taken into consideration in the design.

Generally speaking multiplying same drivers gives you increase in headroom (volume before distortions) so the IEM sounds overall louder and "bigger"

Ok @b0ck3n I think I should have worded it a bit differently. When you increase number of drivers you increase headroom (wiki), especially when dual drivers are considered, that allows you to drive them more - achieve higher volumes before it starts to distort. Like John has pointed out it might not strictly translate to higher SPL measured at the same mW i.e. loudness

 

[bigshot]

How loud do you have to make them when they're pressed right up next to your eardrum?

 

[SilverEars]

Ok @b0ck3n I think I should have worded it a bit differently. When you increase number of drivers you increase headroom (wiki), especially when dual drivers are considered, that allows you to drive them more - achieve higher volumes before it starts to distort. Like John has pointed out it might not strictly translate to higher SPL measured at the same mW i.e. loudness

Question, at how high of a distortion and what volume that more drivers are required?

 

[piotrus-g]

How loud do you have to make them when they're pressed right up next to your eardrum?

anything form 85 to 95dB measured at the ear drum is quite typical. 100dB is very loud. Typical IEM should have around 110-125dB SPL output measured at 100mW

Question, at how high of a distortion and what volume that more drivers are required?

It all depends there's no single universal answer. There are (at least there were) IEMs with 1-3%THD @1kHz which were fairly highly regarded https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AudeoPFE121GrayFilter.pdf (hope this doesn't hurt anyone's feelings since they've been phased out years ago).
Some distortion might be even desired to add more coloration/timbre to the sound.

 

[b0ck3n]

I'm sorry if it rubs people the wrong way when I over-simplify. I do so purposely because I don't think the mystique that surrounds audio tech serves the consumers.

Ok @b0ck3n I think I should have worded it a bit differently. When you increase number of drivers you increase headroom (wiki), especially when dual drivers are considered, that allows you to drive them more - achieve higher volumes before it starts to distort. Like John has pointed out it might not strictly translate to higher SPL measured at the same mW i.e. loudness

I understood you perfectly.

How loud do you have to make them when they're pressed right up next to your eardrum?

I've used inears at ridiculous volumes on stage. It's probably insufficient to try and compare the level to an everyday situation but I suppose in the same ballpark as max volume straight out of an iPhone with a 15 ohm monitor. It's not crazy to question whether it's necessary to go to 11 for normal listening purposes.

 

[castleofargh]

I have no idea how things usually go with THD and loudness, and when we're likely to hit 1%. my *****professional***** measurement rig from Fisher-Price allows me to get sort of usable THD+N readings only in the area around 80~90dB SPL. lower I pick up too much ambient noise in my room. and above, my "best" mic starts contributing to the total distortions. mostly in the upper mid range, but it's enough to make my graphs consistently useless at high levels.

 

[Dulalala]

I've used inears at ridiculous volumes on stage. It's probably insufficient to try and compare the level to an everyday situation but I suppose in the same ballpark as max volume straight out of an iPhone with a 15 ohm monitor. It's not crazy to question whether it's necessary to go to 11 for normal listening purposes.

Yeah... That's not exactly specific enough to let us know how loud you're listening at. What sensitivity is the 15 ohm or 11 ohm monitor? 110 dB/mW? 90 db/mW? Giving us just the impedance, which for one is only it's rated impedance at a specific frequency (usually at 1 kHz) doesn't really mean much.

Aside from that, people generally listen to music at varying levels. Some people like loud (though it's not the best idea) and some don't.

 

[FullCircle]

If interested in iem/ciem for stage monitor purposes etc etc. (Research articles)

https://www.sensaphonics.com/articles-by-michael-santucci

 

[b0ck3n]

Yeah... That's not exactly specific enough to let us know how loud you're listening at. What sensitivity is the 15 ohm or 11 ohm monitor? 110 dB/mW? 90 db/mW? Giving us just the impedance, which for one is only it's rated impedance at a specific frequency (usually at 1 kHz) doesn't really mean much.

Aside from that, people generally listen to music at varying levels. Some people like loud (though it's not the best idea) and some don't.

My bad, 120 dB SPL @ 1 mW.

 

[Dulalala]

My bad, 120 dB SPL @ 1 mW.

Holy *$#% that's bloody loud.

 

[b0ck3n]

Holy *$#% that's bloody loud.

The venue was an accoustical nightmare, and my bandmates happened to prefer wedges, so I sacrificed my hearing for the performance that night. But that was the only time I ever saw real world use of distortion free loudness, and it was an extreme situation.

 

[bigshot]

not good for your hearing