[Dobrescu George]

And to put this in perspective - AM5 will output 500mW into a 32 ohm load (that's 0.5W) or 55mW into a 300 ohm load (0.055W)
Into that 32 ohm load - you'd deafen yourself at full volume.

AM3A balanced will output 400 mW into a 32 ohm load or 63 mW into a 300 ohm load
So again more than enough power to drive most loads, and actually better driving power for high impedance loads (if you go balanced)

You're right

I just don't have any Balanced cables for harder to drive headphones, so I only used the SE of AM03A and that can reach its max with Beyerdynamic Amiron 102dB / 250OHM Open Back on Single ended.

Also, agreed, I never went to full volume on AMP5, so it does have headroom for volume alone, for almost any headphone

 

[snellemin]

Seriously? Its a portable DAC/amp. 5W of output power? WTH are you trying to drive. Very few headphones could utilise or benefit from that sort of power. Unless your basshead headphone is something like an HE6.

Flabbergasted at this request .......

With a full 5W of output power, you're going to end up blowing a lot of headphones. Why would FiiO put themselves at risk so that some idiot can turn up the volume full bore and either blow their headphone coils, or instantly deafen themselves?

I never said the unit was outputting 5W, I said it was pulling 5W from the usb port.

 

[Brooko]

I never said the unit was outputting 5W, I said it was pulling 5W from the usb port.

My apologies - but my point still stands. What cans are you trying to drive? And I still don’t understand why the USB pull should correlate to output power.

Honestly - this quest for higher numbers, when most people have no clue what they mean IRL, just puzzles me.

Please advise cans / IEMs you need all this extra power for.

 

[Dobrescu George]

I never said the unit was outputting 5W, I said it was pulling 5W from the usb port.

Don't worry, that can be normal, especially if Q5 wasn't charged, it will pull more than it is using to charge, plus the wattage doesn't get transformed with a 100% efficiency. It is hard to say what the efficiency of a typical USB power adapter is, but it can vary a lot depending on the temps and such, so even if it is pulling a lot, it doesn't mean it will be able to transform that much into wattage, or that any device can provide that wattage to a pair of headphones

To get an average idea, I thinkn that everything I tried so far requires less than 1W to sound loud enough for the loudest listener.

 

[snellemin]

For IEM's, the AM3A in balanced mode has plenty of power to drive my basshead drivers. For my Bass head Pioneer sz1000 and sz2000, the AM3A is barely enough. I do have two other portable amps that can drive the sz1k and sz2k to some deep subbass. They are the IBasso PB2, with stacked buffers and the RSA intruder. Below that I have the FIIO E12DIY. But for bottomless bass I have my desktop setup, which also drives my planar headphone.
1W is plenty loud, but not enough to produce the subbass levels I crave.

Anyways the Q5 has found a permanent spot now for my work desktop setup. The unit really shines in playing DSD files.

 

[Dobrescu George]

For IEM's, the AM3A in balanced mode has plenty of power to drive my basshead drivers. For my Bass head Pioneer sz1000 and sz2000, the AM3A is barely enough. I do have two other portable amps that can drive the sz1k and sz2k to some deep subbass. They are the IBasso PB2, with stacked buffers and the RSA intruder. Below that I have the FIIO E12DIY. But for bottomless bass I have my desktop setup, which also drives my planar headphone.
1W is plenty loud, but not enough to produce the subbass levels I crave.

Anyways the Q5 has found a permanent spot now for my work desktop setup. The unit really shines in playing DSD files.

Finally it makes sense

SZ1K and SZ2K have been talked about many as power eaters, especially after EQ XD

 

[upsguys88]

FIIO, are you and the Q5 going to be at CanJam in LA?

 

[Brooko]

Well I'll defer to @Hawaiibadboy here - Chris know what power requirements are for these cans, and maybe there is something I'm not talking into account.

But the specs for the Pioneer SZ-1000 are 16ohm, SPL 107 dB/mW

I see that you have yours balanced - so at 16 ohm, the AM3A is putting 380 mW into that load. AM5 SE would put 800 mW - so I would suggest picking up the AM5 module and going SE into the SZ-1000

Looking at the balanced though - and using a power calculator:

To get to 120 dB, requires 20.31 mW (AM3A balanced outputs 380 mW into that load)
To get to 120 dB, requires 35.63 mA (AM3A balanced outputs up to 150 mA)
To get to 120 dB, requires 0.57 Vrms or 1.6 Vp-p (AM3A balanced outputs up to 10 Vp-p)

It says to me that the AM3A outputs 5-10 times more power than is required to put you to the threshold of pain. Even allowing for EQ, it should be more than enough with the SZ-1000

 

[FiiO]

FIIO, are you and the Q5 going to be at CanJam in LA?

Yes!
Best regards

 

[snellemin]

Well I'll defer to @Hawaiibadboy here - Chris know what power requirements are for these cans, and maybe there is something I'm not talking into account.

But the specs for the Pioneer SZ-1000 are 16ohm, SPL 107 dB/mW

I see that you have yours balanced - so at 16 ohm, the AM3A is putting 380 mW into that load. AM5 SE would put 800 mW - so I would suggest picking up the AM5 module and going SE into the SZ-1000

Looking at the balanced though - and using a power calculator:

To get to 120 dB, requires 20.31 mW (AM3A balanced outputs 380 mW into that load)
To get to 120 dB, requires 35.63 mA (AM3A balanced outputs up to 150 mA)
To get to 120 dB, requires 0.57 Vrms or 1.6 Vp-p (AM3A balanced outputs up to 10 Vp-p)

It says to me that the AM3A outputs 5-10 times more power than is required to put you to the threshold of pain. Even allowing for EQ, it should be more than enough with the SZ-1000

The AM3A is barely enough for my full size headphones. It would probably be perfect for the Focal Elears, but not my Hifiman 400i.
120dB at higher frequencies is easy to achieve. 120dB at lower frequencies is not, and more current is needed to move the subwoofer's dynamic driver inside the SZ-1000.
The higher frequencies are lowered when EQ'ing for bass. So the ear pain is avoided and so is distortion. Now comes the part of how well an amp has been designed to produce the lower frequencies. Fiio has done a good job with the E12, E12DIY and A5. But my fellow bass heads have to go to IFI to get the power needed in a semi portable setup. For portable I'm stuck with the Ibasso PB2 and RSA Intruder. Neither are a match to my Parasound setup, that produces the cleanest deepest lows and bring the Pioneers to a whole new level of refinement after swapping in Burson's opamps.

So for bassheads, IFI is the only player in this current market of semi portable amps/dac. Fiio could get some of that market share, if they are willing to invest in such.

 

[Dobrescu George]

The AM3A is barely enough for my full size headphones. It would probably be perfect for the Focal Elears, but not my Hifiman 400i.
120dB at higher frequencies is easy to achieve. 120dB at lower frequencies is not, and more current is needed to move the subwoofer's dynamic driver inside the SZ-1000.
The higher frequencies are lowered when EQ'ing for bass. So the ear pain is avoided and so is distortion. Now comes the part of how well an amp has been designed to produce the lower frequencies. Fiio has done a good job with the E12, E12DIY and A5. But my fellow bass heads have to go to IFI to get the power needed in a semi portable setup. For portable I'm stuck with the Ibasso PB2 and RSA Intruder. Neither are a match to my Parasound setup, that produces the cleanest deepest lows and bring the Pioneers to a whole new level of refinement after swapping in Burson's opamps.

So for bassheads, IFI is the only player in this current market of semi portable amps/dac. Fiio could get some of that market share, if they are willing to invest in such.

Check out AMP5

 

[mrmoto050]

And to put this in perspective - AM5 will output 500mW into a 32 ohm load (that's 0.5W) or 55mW into a 300 ohm load (0.055W)
Into that 32 ohm load - you'd deafen yourself at full volume.

AM3A balanced will output 400 mW into a 32 ohm load or 63 mW into a 300 ohm load
So again more than enough power to drive most loads, and actually better driving power for high impedance loads (if you go balanced)

The AM3A is barely enough for my full size headphones. It would probably be perfect for the Focal Elears, but not my Hifiman 400i.
120dB at higher frequencies is easy to achieve. 120dB at lower frequencies is not, and more current is needed to move the subwoofer's dynamic driver inside the SZ-1000.
The higher frequencies are lowered when EQ'ing for bass. So the ear pain is avoided and so is distortion. Now comes the part of how well an amp has been designed to produce the lower frequencies. Fiio has done a good job with the E12, E12DIY and A5. But my fellow bass heads have to go to IFI to get the power needed in a semi portable setup. For portable I'm stuck with the Ibasso PB2 and RSA Intruder. Neither are a match to my Parasound setup, that produces the cleanest deepest lows and bring the Pioneers to a whole new level of refinement after swapping in Burson's opamps.

So for bassheads, IFI is the only player in this current market of semi portable amps/dac. Fiio could get some of that market share, if they are willing to invest in such.

You need something with more current not power.

 

[Brooko]

You need something with more current not power.

Agree - but if that is what he needs - then the AM5 (250 mA max output) is going to be far better than the AM3A balanced. But really - how many people are actually going to be using vast amounts of EQ to push bass to the sorts of levels he's wanting. And given the likely battery drain at such high current output - it again makes no sense to design a module for low (comparative) use which would dramatically affect battery life.

If bassheads want to be pushing the envelope this far (and I have no issues with them doing this), then the answer is a portable amp - not getting FiiO to design an amp module for a very specific need and a very small target audience. Just IMO - but where would that be economically viable?

And why the dog pic?

 

[mrmoto050]

Agree - but if that is what he needs - then the AM5 (250 mA max output) is going to be far better than the AM3A balanced. But really - how many people are actually going to be using vast amounts of EQ to push bass to the sorts of levels he's wanting. And given the likely battery drain at such high current output - it again makes no sense to design a module for low (comparative) use which would dramatically affect battery life.

If bassheads want to be pushing the envelope this far (and I have no issues with them doing this), then the answer is a portable amp - not getting FiiO to design an amp module for a very specific need and a very small target audience. Just IMO - but where would that be economically viable?

And why the dog pic?

I don't have any idea I'm going delete it if I can. Didn't know it was there. Deleted...

 

[betula]

AM5 might sound better, but I think at this point it is worth to mention that the the Q5's battery time drops to 6 hrs with this more powerful amp module. (From 10 hrs with the AM3A.)