The Reference 6SN7 Thread

[Skylab]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tourmaline /img/forum/go_quote.gif I can get 2 cvc 181/ecc32 tubes for 50 euro's a piece!

Then buy them and I will buy them from you

 

[Black Stuart]

I would distrust any tubeseller who says the Russian 1578s are microphonic, they are in fact completely non-microphonic, which for me was a first and make the best 6SN7 for a pre-amp.

As someone said - you either love them or hate them. I first heard of these particular 6SN7s' from Bob Prangell (he of Moskido fame) on diyforum.

Incidentally he also put me onto the 1579 aka 6SL7. He rates those 2 tubes as the best of their respective types.

It was me that persuaded Tourmaline to try the 1578. Even though we share the same basic h/amp namely the BadaPH12, his take on the valve is very different from mine - I loved them so much I built up quite a stash.

I certainly don't find them grainy at all - just very, very neutral. I did'nt really understand what that meant (in tube terms) until I encountered this tube.

A 'bit on the dry side' - yes that's a comment I can understand but very fast, dynamic and balanced from top to bottom - Ken-Rads/Sylvanias/GEs/Gts/WGT/WGTA - to my ears they are all coloured, some more than others.

BTW - there are 3 slight differences internally which result in small but noticeable variations in presentation.

I note what my friend Tourmaline says but for me 3 x 1578s are fine - it could also be a difference in ages that determines what the individual hears. I tried using a Sylvania chrome top as driver, very musical but I missed the seperation, staging and dynamics 0f 3 x 1578s.

Once I heard this tube - the search was over. My problem is to find a design where I can use them in a phono stage - I don't like ECC83s. Apparently the 6SN7 has too high an 'ouput capacitance' - esta la vida.

 

[Jon L]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skylab /img/forum/go_quote.gif NO. Those tubes are a FLAT RIP-OFF. Just a basic Russian 6N8S with a metal base. No better than the black-base ones you can get for $1 each. The *actual* 1578 has a totally different plate structure - see here: RARE! 1 USSR TUBE 1578=6SN7 Unique military development - eBay (item 260261138109 end time Jul-19-08 21:00:00 PDT) That one IS a 1578. Interesting tube. Some people think it's the best sounding 6SN7 there is - others (including me) were less than impressed. Personally - I wouldn't spend the jack for one. RCA, Ken-Rad, or Sylvania VT-231's all beat the pants off the 1578 IMHO.

Has anyone compared the "real" 1578 to Electroharmonix 6SN7EH (basically the same thing as TungSol reissue 6SN7)? I use 6SN7EH when I feel like something different, less lush and round than NOS types, or mixed with one NOS and one EH.

 

[Black Stuart]

Hi Jon L,
yes I have the EH, IMO it's not a patch on the 1578 and yes I agree that a lot of the NOS do have this 'lush' sound - you pays yer money and makes yer choice.

 

[Jon L]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Stuart /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hi Jon L, yes I have the EH, IMO it's not a patch on the 1578 and yes I agree that a lot of the NOS do have this 'lush' sound - you pays yer money and makes yer choice.

Assuming you mean "match" by "patch," what specifically differs between 1578 and 6SN7EH sound?

 

[Skylab]

The EH 6SN7 is constructed NOTHING like the 1578. If there is any similarity in would just be a happy coincidence. And IMHO the EH 6SN7 is about the worst sounding 6SN7 I have ever heard, though I have never listened to any Chinese ones. When I am looking for a less lush sound, then I go with the Sylvania tall-bottle VT-231. That is not a lush sounding tube like the RCA grey-glass VT-231 is. The Ken-Rad black-glass VT-231 is sort of in-between in some ways, and is also a nice change-up.

 

[tourmaline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Stuart /img/forum/go_quote.gif I would distrust any tubeseller who says the Russian 1578s are microphonic, they are in fact completely non-microphonic, which for me was a first and make the best 6SN7 for a pre-amp. As someone said - you either love them or hate them. I first heard of these particular 6SN7s' from Bob Prangell (he of Moskido fame) on diyforum. Incidentally he also put me onto the 1579 aka 6SL7. He rates those 2 tubes as the best of their respective types. It was me that persuaded Tourmaline to try the 1578. Even though we share the same basic h/amp namely the BadaPH12, his take on the valve is very different from mine - I loved them so much I built up quite a stash. I certainly don't find them grainy at all - just very, very neutral. I did'nt really understand what that meant (in tube terms) until I encountered this tube. A 'bit on the dry side' - yes that's a comment I can understand but very fast, dynamic and balanced from top to bottom - Ken-Rads/Sylvanias/GEs/Gts/WGT/WGTA - to my ears they are all coloured, some more than others. BTW - there are 3 slight differences internally which result in small but noticeable variations in presentation. I note what my friend Tourmaline says but for me 3 x 1578s are fine - it could also be a difference in ages that determines what the individual hears. I tried using a Sylvania chrome top as driver, very musical but I missed the seperation, staging and dynamics 0f 3 x 1578s. Once I heard this tube - the search was over. My problem is to find a design where I can use them in a phono stage - I don't like ECC83s. Apparently the 6SN7 has too high an 'ouput capacitance' - esta la vida.

I am with stuart that the real russian 1578 is just as good as any other exotic 6sn7, like the sylvania w's, the tung sol and the wgta. It's just that we modded our amps differently, so it all comes down to preference and matching. Different cdplayer might also mean different favourite tube.

The sylvania w's are most dynamic though and have probably the best bass of them all.

With the jan philips wgta's the balance is just right.

But as i said, just as rare as the 1578, the sylvania w's, tung sol etc.

Note that the jan philips wgta is not the same as any other wgta tube...
most sylvania's use the designation of 5y3, wich means wgt, not a real wgta, the jan philips has different designation on the bottom and is the real wgta, wich was developed for televion broadcasting and such. rare tube! hardly turned on and therefor long lasting!

I can make some pictures for you guys so you know how the real tubes look like!!!

 

[Skylab]

Actually, Sylvania made both 6SN7WGT and 6SN7WGTA. Different tubes. I have some of each. The GTA has higher plate voltage ratings and greater dissipation than the GT. The lower rated 6SN7GT (or the military number VT-231) are not subs for a 6SN7GTA or 6SN7GTB in some amps, although in normal use in most 6SN7 circuits, all these types should be interchangeable. And the "W" before the "GT" or "GTA" just indicates the military version.

And a 5Y3 is a rectifier tube, totally different thing.

 

[tourmaline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skylab /img/forum/go_quote.gif Actually, Sylvania made both 6SN7WGT and 6SN7WGTA. Different tubes. I have some of each. The GTA has higher plate voltage ratings and greater dissipation than the GT. The lower rated 6SN7GT (or the military number VT-231) are not subs for a 6SN7GTA or 6SN7GTB in some amps, although in normal use in most 6SN7 circuits, all these types should be interchangeable. And the "W" before the "GT" or "GTA" just indicates the military version. And a 5Y3 is a rectifier tube, totally different thing.

Problem is skylab, that most jan sylvania wgta's i see for sale have this designation, the 5y3, so this is not a real substitute for a 6sn7 tube!

 

[nick20]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tourmaline /img/forum/go_quote.gif Problem is skylab, that most jan sylvania wgta's i see for sale have this designation, the 5y3, so this is not a real substitute for a 6sn7 tube!

I think he's agreeing ;

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skylab /img/forum/go_quote.gif And a 5Y3 is a rectifier tube, totally different thing.

 

[Skylab]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tourmaline /img/forum/go_quote.gif Problem is skylab, that most jan sylvania wgta's i see for sale have this designation, the 5y3, so this is not a real substitute for a 6sn7 tube!

Well, it's certainly true that the 5Y3 is not anything even remotely close to the 6SN7! Totally and completely different tube. But there are LOTS of tubes that might have the "WGT" or WGTA" appendix. I own 6SL7WGT's, 6SJ7WGT's, etc., etc. So do not confuse "WGT" or "WGTA" as having anything to do with the 6SN7 specifically.

And again, I own several 6SN7WGTA's - both from Sylvania and Tung-Sol - so it's not just Phillips that made them.

 

[tourmaline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skylab /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, it's certainly true that the 5Y3 is not anything even remotely close to the 6SN7! Totally and completely different tube. But there are LOTS of tubes that might have the "WGT" or WGTA" appendix. I own 6SL7WGT's, 6SJ7WGT's, etc., etc. So do not confuse "WGT" or "WGTA" as having anything to do with the 6SN7 specifically. And again, I own several 6SN7WGTA's - both from Sylvania and Tung-Sol - so it's not just Phillips that made them.

I know, but it is this specific jan philips batch that is so highly regarded! it is as highly regarded as the 1578, the sylvania w's etc. Just as rare.

But the designation IS important! Only then you can pick the right batch of tubes that sound good. I have also sylvania wgt's but they don't even come close to the jan philips wgta's concerning sound quality.
The wgta is a newer, improved version of the wgt, wich was made for broadcasting purposes. It might even be that philips had their own specs for this batch and therefor sound better?!

Not every wgta is the same, every brand has it's own signature.

As Stuart said, even the russian 1578 has 3 variations wich all sound slightly different.

And i saw in a list of highly regarded tubes specifically the jan philips wgta named as one of the best sounding tubes.

 

[tourmaline]

I found this about the jan philips wgta's:

"6SN7WGTA JAN Philips or any other high quality 6SN7GT. I've tried RCA, Tung-Sol, Raytheon, various Sylvania '40s-'80s, GE and even the latest China production and all of 'em work fine. The JAN Philips 6SN7WGTA is my favorite because of it's high reliability and very low noise."

Just like the russian 1578, they are very quit.

 

[Jon L]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skylab /img/forum/go_quote.gif The EH 6SN7 is constructed NOTHING like the 1578. If there is any similarity in would just be a happy coincidence. And IMHO the EH 6SN7 is about the worst sounding 6SN7 I have ever heard, though I have never listened to any Chinese ones.

LOL. Though I can totally see how a lot of people may feel that way about EH 6SN7 due to its complete lack of bloom or richness, I find it to make a nice clear driver tube for something like a 300B *if* the input tube before it has some nice harmonics, such as National Union Grey Glass 6SN7 or KenRad VT231.

 

[tourmaline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon L /img/forum/go_quote.gif LOL. Though I can totally see how a lot of people may feel that way about EH 6SN7 due to its complete lack of bloom or richness, I find it to make a nice clear driver tube for something like a 300B *if* the input tube before it has some nice harmonics, such as National Union Grey Glass 6SN7 or KenRad VT231.

Some people use/used the EH gold as driver tube. It suppose to sound good if you mix it right with other tubes.