The Reference 6SN7 Thread

Feb 24, 2024 at 6:40 PM Post #9,781 of 10,668
At the end of a labeller's career you also want to earn something, that's also clear, if I were a labeller I would have done all the work that I roughly imagined.
And I have also pre-financed everything, logically enough, and there's no need to mention that I want to get my money back.
And if the review of the tube is very good, you should give it a chance if you can afford it.
On the other hand, I can understand the critical camp, such as those who bought Ps Vane and the like 10 years ago.
The reservations like failures, sound typically Chinese bright and garish far from a Nos tube ect...
The name then quickly became a target in terms of quality and such things.

I find it funny that only the Asian region is directly attacked as soon as something comes from there.
Apart from that, where does your household come from?
Theoretically, you'd have to throw everything out now.
No seriously, what about the Russian tubes running under Tung sol, Mullard were all big names.
Strangely enough, there are no reservations about them, although there would be some from a sonic point of view.
Apart from the fact that the manufacturer was heavily sanctioned for certain reasons and I'm sure there are some who read this forum, you see relatively few new things while the Asian region is braver and tries to be innovative.
Why don't we see any legacy Mullard or Tungsol tubes where they made it big back in the day, even though they had the plans and rights and probably the ability to bring them back to market?
I suspect that in Russia there is also something that severely restricts the manufacturer, be it personnel, material or other things.
All the criticism is the nature of a buyer. We go off of reputation when we buy stuff because this hobby is expensive. Reputation wasn’t built overnight. Because many of part failures and poor service we had were from Chinese made goods that reputation stuck. Apos, Topping, and others have created a great reputation for a long period of time. That’s great, but I am hesitant to trust any other products coming to aliexpress. As for Psvane, they had a weaker reputation compared to the other big brands.

From what I see, the Ray and the Ray reserve is the price of Apos’s reputation. Just like Apple phones are priced high because of Apple’s reputation even though their phones were made in China just like all the other phones. Anyway, let’s wait for the review.
 
Feb 24, 2024 at 6:54 PM Post #9,782 of 10,668
Well, if you said so...but I am sure they are the same tube.
It may be from the same place, but I doubt it’s the same tube. I think “classic” is the designation Psvane give to the tubes that are barely in spec in this line. Someone can check me on this, but I’ll bet that the Reserve from Apos is better-binned, and that does make a big difference at least with the Psvane ones. How much $ that’s worth is a personal call tho…
 
Feb 24, 2024 at 6:58 PM Post #9,783 of 10,668
Same for Sophia Electric, TAD, BTB and certainly many others
Those are much more likely to be relabelers than having any design input. At most I would anticipate that they could specify matching and other spec matching tolerances.
 
Feb 24, 2024 at 7:02 PM Post #9,784 of 10,668
I am cautiously optimistic about the quality of these tubes. The Russians were able to make tubes that many think rival the originals. The people making these tubes have been at it for quite a while. I would expect them to make better versions than any newcomer like WE is supposedly working on. One thing that is a wild card is the longevity. At these prices they need to last as long as the older tubes.

Edit: The Russians have made well regarded pentode/tetrode output tubes. They seem to have lost the 6sn7 mojo back in the Soviet days.
 
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Feb 24, 2024 at 7:06 PM Post #9,785 of 10,668
It may be from the same place, but I doubt it’s the same tube. I think “classic” is the designation Psvane give to the tubes that are barely in spec in this line. Someone can check me on this, but I’ll bet that the Reserve from Apos is better-binned, and that does make a big difference at least with the Psvane ones. How much $ that’s worth is a personal call tho…
But what “specs” determine sound quality? Did they fail because the sides aren’t matched closely? A simple balance adjustment would fix that in many systems.
 
Feb 24, 2024 at 7:10 PM Post #9,786 of 10,668
But what “specs” determine sound quality? Did they fail because the sides aren’t matched closely? A simple balance adjustment would fix that in many systems.
I think mostly noise, but maybe also current level, and section matching. I’m not sure if they actually give that info specifically… I’ve definitely had some very noisy Psvane 6SN7s from EBay, so buyer beware on those. It’s really hit or miss… I forget how they named them, but a quick Google search suggests they were “classic” or “premium”. There was a noticeable price and quality difference.
 
Feb 24, 2024 at 7:23 PM Post #9,787 of 10,668
Happy to report the future looks promising, as I just got a New Production 6SN7, that sounds as good or better than any NOS 6SN7 I have heard.

Say hello to the Apos Ray Reserve 6SN7.

1000004597.jpg
1000004610.jpg

I will share more once I have had more time with them, but for now I can tell you they are legit and have actually been blowing my mind.
Seriously?!

This is great news.
 
Feb 24, 2024 at 8:12 PM Post #9,788 of 10,668
What we all don't know is what specifications the client gives to the manufacturer.
It doesn't matter whether it's Ps Vane, New Sensor or JJ.
If I say I buy 3000 tubes from manufacturer X but want it to be below the "5%", I as a manufacturer/seller/marketer/labeller am allowed to advertise this.
If the manufacturer does this but sells 95% of the tubes it produces under its own label or another label, this is just as legal.
Let's not fool ourselves.
Hoges, for example, was a labeller who had bought cheaply from Mullard, Brimar, Gec but the tubes were affected by a higher failure rate than the actual manufacturers.
Ultron also had its tubes manufactured by RFT, as well as in Russia, Asia and America.
They passed as a "German" brand to name just one more.
In the meantime, even Nos tubes have to be categorised, as in the Nos area as well as New Stock.
Westinghouse has a type that only fulfils the purpose, in New Stock it is Tad or JJ and many others.
Take Sylvania for example, they have a huge range of 6SN7's covering all areas from hweck to holy grail or bad boys.
In terms of new stock, it's not as widespread as it was back then, because a lot of things have died with it.
But why spend $1200 on a Brimar CV1988 when a Linlai Elite or Apos Reserve plays at a similar level?

At the end of a labeller's career you also want to earn something, that's also clear, if I were a labeller I would have done all the work that I roughly imagined.
And I have also pre-financed everything, logically enough, and there's no need to mention that I want to get my money back.
And if the review of the tube is very good, you should give it a chance if you can afford it.
On the other hand, I can understand the critical camp, such as those who bought Ps Vane and the like 10 years ago.
The reservations like failures, sound typically Chinese bright and garish far from a Nos tube ect...
The name then quickly became a target in terms of quality and such things.

I find it funny that only the Asian region is directly attacked as soon as something comes from there.
Apart from that, where does your household come from?
Theoretically, you'd have to throw everything out now.
No seriously, what about the Russian tubes running under Tung sol, Mullard were all big names.
Strangely enough, there are no reservations about them, although there would be some from a sonic point of view.
Apart from the fact that the manufacturer was heavily sanctioned for certain reasons and I'm sure there are some who read this forum, you see relatively few new things while the Asian region is braver and tries to be innovative.
Why don't we see any legacy Mullard or Tungsol tubes where they made it big back in the day, even though they had the plans and rights and probably the ability to bring them back to market?
I suspect that in Russia there is also something that severely restricts the manufacturer, be it personnel, material or other things.

In the end, it's up to everyone to decide what they spend their money on.
And having reservations is also okay, as are concerns.
But you should also be open to something new because it is not often that a labeler/seller here offers us something that could actually be very good.
End of the day, everyone makes their own decisions, it is not my money to decide. I am just sharing info.
BTW, I have been using PSVANE ACME 805 n WE300B with great results.
 
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Feb 25, 2024 at 11:14 AM Post #9,789 of 10,668
Happy to report the future looks promising, as I just got a New Production 6SN7, that sounds as good or better than any NOS 6SN7 I have heard.

Say hello to the Apos Ray Reserve 6SN7.




I will share more once I have had more time with them, but for now I can tell you they are legit and have actually been blowing my mind.

Interesting! Curious to find out if these are a kind of CV181-TIII or just a new tier of CV-181-TII "premium of premium" or sadly just re-badged "premium" (vs classic). It always seemed to be a pain to source PSVane tubes in general so now they are easily had through Apos (Shenzen owned?) which has built up a reputation as an efficient and reliable stateside delivery option. In a separate announcement thread for the other cheaper 6sn7 release, Apos said that they were just holding on to the 95% rejects and finding a way to sell them for non-audio purposes without labeling. If one is in the market for tubes right now for 400$ and in a few days 480$ might be smart to research some NOS tubes that will just get more rare while these remain available. In my case, I've found 6sn7 and 6j5 tubes with great synergy for my setup and I've regretted going out and searching for better as of late.
 
Feb 26, 2024 at 3:19 AM Post #9,790 of 10,668
I think mostly noise, but maybe also current level, and section matching. I’m not sure if they actually give that info specifically… I’ve definitely had some very noisy Psvane 6SN7s from EBay, so buyer beware on those. It’s really hit or miss… I forget how they named them, but a quick Google search suggests they were “classic” or “premium”. There was a noticeable price and quality difference.
IMO...just my opinion....please take it with a grain of salt. “classic” or “premium” are coined by oversea importers or sellers at AliExpress for oversea buyers. If you were to check the domestic market in China, there are only 2 PSVANE CV181 in the Art Series. The rest are designated as 6SN7 in the Classic series. Check here: http://www.psvane.com/?l=en

PSVANE CV181-T
CV181-T(2).jpg


PSVANE CV181-TII
20190830153412fwpB.jpg


Lastly, all PSVANE tubes come with a standard 1-2 years manufacturer warranty and not just 3 months. For both PSVANE CV181-T and CV181-TII, they come with a 1 year manufacturer warranty.

P.S. If you were to buy from AliExpress, I would suggest seller, GD-PARTS (Authorized PSVANE Reseller). I have no affiliations with them but have bought over 50 items including PSVANE tubes with great satisfaction. Good luck.
 
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Feb 26, 2024 at 8:28 AM Post #9,791 of 10,668
IMO...just my opinion....please take it with a grain of salt. “classic” or “premium” are coined by oversea importers or sellers at AliExpress for oversea buyers. If you were to check the domestic market in China, there are only 2 PSVANE CV181 in the Art Series. The rest are designated as 6SN7 in the Classic series. Check here: http://www.psvane.com/?l=en

PSVANE CV181-T
CV181-T(2).jpg


PSVANE CV181-TII
20190830153412fwpB.jpg


Lastly, all PSVANE tubes come with a standard 1-2 years manufacturer warranty and not just 3 months. For both PSVANE CV181-T and CV181-TII, they come with a 1 year manufacturer warranty.

P.S. If you were to buy from AliExpress, I would suggest seller, GD-PARTS (Authorized PSVANE Reseller). I have no affiliations with them but have bought over 50 items including PSVANE tubes with great satisfaction. Good luck.
This is what I surmised - two varieties become eight once the marketing guys get their hands on them.
 
Feb 26, 2024 at 1:27 PM Post #9,793 of 10,668
Feb 26, 2024 at 2:33 PM Post #9,794 of 10,668

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