[paradoxper]

Here is an early version Melz with oval micas and top mica supports but you see the same solid plates that were used on some 1578 versions later on. This is what made me think they ran out of parts and went back to the solid plates. This tube is not that collectible and is on the same level as some of the Fotons IMHO. The Russians sellers are running out of 1578's so they try to promote other variations to the same price point. You really best know what you are doing to buy Melz or you can get burned.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/254778886058?hash=item3b520147aa:g:-NAAAOSwWSxfsTC8

Same tube I just showed.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/163625581724?hash=item2618d83c9c:g:sZsAAOSw9HBhK4b~

Dull grey plate, wrong upper supports, wrong mica's throughout.

The Russians need to get with Sophia Electric and really learn how to market a product.

Do you feel there is any other bespoke tube equivalent to the MELZ 1578 perforated?

 

[Paladin79]

Wow...I need to create a spreadsheet for all of these variations and save some pictures for reference. I also need to get through this entire thread before buying any more tubes, thanks again.

Not a problem, I no longer run a local audiophile group but one day when Covid lets up we will finish our final tests on over 1500 6sn7's and the work will be published as far as I know.

We also assembled all of the equivalent audio equipment shown in the Bosch TV series and our impressions should be included as well. That was a less serious experiment.

 

[Paladin79]

The Russians need to get with Sophia Electric and really learn how to market a product.

Do you feel there is any other bespoke tube equivalent to the MELZ 1578 perforated?

The Melz tubes are no longer made and many of the good ones are 60 years old. Sophia is a new brand.

That is a tough one, I will check my group's results and see what matches up the best, we have not done our final testing on the top 52 with a large group. We rate on 25 criteria so it is rare for a tube to rate high across the board like some Melz. When you start talking to individuals some might like more bass or upper bass or strong mids etc. Put that same tube through our tests with specific music recorded to show off different traits and it might score strong in just a few areas. Having heard the 1959's, is anything really lacking? It should not be lol.

Oh and we used four identical headphone amps with Senn HD800 headphones, Tung Sol 5998 power tubes, all levels were carefully matched. I cannot tell as much about a tube in most speaker systems but that is just me. Try doing that with a large group (I believe in the accuracy of large numbers of people) and it is tough to get many folks in the sweet spot for the speakers.

 

[paradoxper]

The Melz tubes are no longer made and many of the good ones are 60 years old. Sophia is a new brand.

That is a tough one, I will check my group's results and see what matches up the best, we have not done our final testing on the top 52 with a large group. We rate on 25 criteria so it is rare for a tube to rate high across the board like some Melz. When you start talking to individuals some might like more bass or upper bass or strong mids etc. Put that same tube through our tests with specific music recorded to show off different traits and it might score strong in just a few areas. Having heard the 1959's, is anything really lacking? It should not be lol.

Oh and we used four identical headphone amps with Senn HD800 headphones, Tung Sol 5998 power tubes, all levels were carefully matched. I cannot tell as much about a tube in most speaker systems but that is just me. Try doing that with a large group (I believe in the accuracy of large numbers of people) and it is tough to get many folks in the sweet spot for the speakers.

Yes, Sophia also cherry picks and rebrands.

Please let me know. I'd say the only splitting hairs with the MELZ is they can be a little soft sounding, but not too soft in the overall balanced scheme of things. I was curious if you may throw out some obscure Sylvania.

 

[Ripper2860]

I found this helpful in my early Melz 1578 endeavors...



The desirable solid plate has all the same characteristics as the legit perforated plate 1578 except the plates are solid.

 

[Paladin79]

Yes, Sophia also cherry picks and rebrands.

Please let me know. I'd say the only splitting hairs with the MELZ is they can be a little soft sounding, but not too soft in the overall balanced scheme of things. I was curious if you may throw out some obscure Sylvania.

A tube you should hear if you get a chance is the RFT 6sn7, made in East Germany, it tested with most of the same traits as the solid plate Melz 1578. (perforated plates were so similar we did not include all the variations, as was the case with many variations of brands.)

Things like soft sounding are hard for me to wrap my brain around, my background is in science as it is with many local friends. Equipment is a factor and there are plenty of headphone amps out there in which I would be hard pressed to tell much difference in 50 of our top rated tubes. If you are using speakers, what brand, how well is the room set up, what pre-amp, what DAC? In our tests we had already done DAC tests and we used the very top DAC we liked coupled with my headphone amps. Some of you may be familiar with the Aqua La Voce S3 DAC, it is what my group chose to use.

 

[paradoxper]

A tube you should hear if you get a chance is the RFT 6sn7, made in East Germany, it tested with most of the same traits as the solid plate Melz 1578. (perforated plates were so similar we did not include all the variations, as was the case with many variations of brands.)

Things like soft sounding are hard for me to wrap my brain around, my background is in science as it is with many local friends. Equipment is a factor and there are plenty of headphone amps out there in which I would be hard pressed to tell much difference in 50 of our top rated tubes. If you are using speakers, what brand, how well is the room set up, what pre-amp, what DAC? In our tests we had already done DAC tests and we used the very top DAC we liked coupled with my headphone amps. Some of you may be familiar with the Aqua La Voce S3 DAC, it is what my group chose to use.

Would the foil getter ceramic plates qualify as the desirable in this RFT variant?

For me, soft would present as overtly rounded in the upper mid to upper treble range and express a little too much bloom in the bass.
But yes, encompassing balance of all components is a key factor.

 

[Paladin79]

Would the foil getter ceramic plates qualify as the desirable in this RFT variant?

For me, soft would present as overtly rounded in the upper mid to upper treble range and express a little too much bloom in the bass.
But yes, encompassing balance of all components is a key factor.

That would be the RFT.

My reaction to Melz is very different but I am using different equipment. I felt like many headphones I used had a ceiling that held back tubes like Melz, HD 800’s are very descriptive but my favorite are Focal Utopias. The treble just climbs higher and higher and then slowly disappears. Most folks I know describe the accuracy of the Melz bass without bloom or muddiness. I listen to many forms of music and have around 65,000 albums in my personal collection but for testing my friends and I use music that breaks down the whole spectrum quite well. Chesky did that with 8 elements as I recall, we use 25. The music was recorded for our testing and is not available for general consumption. Some of the folks who performed are among our test subjects.

If a Melz performed for us as described I doubt it would score above 75 points. It is in the high 90’s.

I should also mention I modified my amp design to keep up with the high frequency capabilities of the Melz. I just shipped a loaner amp to a friend in Texas and I included 2 Melz tubes.

 

[paradoxper]

That would be the RFT.

My reaction to Melz is very different but I am using different equipment. I felt like many headphones I used had a ceiling that held back tubes like Melz, HD 800’s are very descriptive but my favorite are Focal Utopias. The treble just climbs higher and higher and then slowly disappears. Most folks I know describe the accuracy of the Melz bass without bloom or muddiness. I listen to many forms of music and have around 65,000 albums in my personal collection but for testing my friends and I use music that breaks down the whole spectrum quite well. Chesky did that with 8 elements as I recall, we use 25. The music was recorded for our testing and is not available for general consumption. Some of the folks who performed are among our test subjects.

If a Melz performed for us as described I doubt it would score above 75 points. It is in the high 90’s.

Ok. I'm on the hunt!

I Primarily favor the 1266 TC which you can't really highlight a soft bass response so it's not too much of a differentiated issue between tubes but the way the MELZ 1578 expresses air and decay is decisively unique and taps into that magic place of listening.

If there's more than MELZ, I'm all for it. If not, damn if I don't try!

 

[Paladin79]

Ok. I'm on the hunt!

I Primarily favor the 1266 TC which you can't really highlight a soft bass response so it's not too much of a differentiated issue between tubes but the way the MELZ 1578 expresses air and decay is decisively unique and taps into that magic place of listening.

If there's more than MELZ, I'm all for it. If not, damn if I don't try!

There are plenty of tubes around including 6sn7 equivalents. I have spent more time with Melz than anyone in my group, some specialize in Brimar, GEC, Sylvania, etc. All of our testing is done blind to eliminate expectation bias. No one knows if they are about to hear a $20 tube or a $2,000 tube. Even with eight of us doing selections the final 52 top tubes will be judged by 100 folks or more. I really hate to say I think this or I think that so I seek multiple testers and opinions. Plenty of folks want to argue methodology but this is a system I like.

Want to spend the money and do your own testing? Go for it.

 

[paradoxper]

There are plenty of tubes around including 6sn7 equivalents. I have spent more time with Melz than anyone in my group, some specialize in Brimar, GEC, Sylvania, etc. All of our testing is done blind to eliminate expectation bias. No one knows if they are about to hear a $20 tube or a $2,000 tube. Even with eight of us doing selections the final 52 top tubes will be judged by 100 folks or more. I really hate to say I think this or I think that so I seek multiple testers and opinions. Plenty of folks want to argue methodology but this is a system I like.

Want to spend the money and do your own testing? Go for it.

Ha. These are all $10 tubes that inflated to the heavens. I will test any tube my heart desires for the end result of my pleasures. We are way past evaluating costs in this game. But I appreciate the anecdotes and you're clearly more seasoned with tubes so it helps narrow choices down more succinctly.

 

[bcowen]

These say "Melz" and 1956 dated NOS, but they don't look like any of your top pics, are they legit or not anything special? The guy has 100% positive feedback. I'm also very new to this and would like a decent pair for the gain stage of my Freya+, but can't afford to get burned.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/264969519491?hash=item3db16a0183:g:deUAAOSw79VfsVTw

Those are not 1578's. That seller has several listings where he's asking 1578 prices for standard 6N8S tubes. With a 14777 feedback tally, it's not like he doesn't know what he's looking at. Blacklisted for me...he's obviously a charlatan or a fraud or both. If you're going to buy tubes on Ebay, it's important to learn and know the sellers to avoid. There are very many good sellers, but there are some that are anything but (and this is one of them).

Another of his current listings:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/254779019594?hash=item3b5203514a:g:aA4AAOSw53FfsVST

 

[paradoxper]

Bah. as I was going to pick up some RFT's, I found a few more pair of 1578's. I'm helpless...

 

[bcowen]

Bah. as I was going to pick up some RFT's, I found a few more pair of 1578's. I'm helpless...

Why not get both? The RFT's are pretty cheap. LOL!!!

 

[mourip]

These are all $10 tubes that inflated to the heavens.

Interesting idea...

My wife is a realtor. She always says that a house is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it.

Since the best sounding NOS tubes are getting scarce, and new production tubes are mostly(not always) a pale reflection of NOS, then "what they are worth" will keep increasing.