[bcowen]

A Picasso vs Elvis painted on velvet, naturally Elvis would win for you.

ROFL! At least Elvis had some musical talent. Picasso just painted some ugly stuff. I think he was only celebrated because he was weird. An earlier form of Marilyn Manson, kind of.

 

[Paladin79]

@Paladin79 Only gave it half an hour out of curiosity. I must say, this is the best I've heard. Can't quite put my hands on what it is just yet that makes it sound so natural and specific at the same time

@musicinmymind It is from 1957

To me those tubes are well balanced across the audio spectrum. Unless you have poor solder on the pins they are wondrous and score well in 25 categories friends and I used in blind listening. They are like a fine wine that scores into the high nineties. Something to be savored and enjoyed.

 

[DenverW]

Oh dear. I recently picked up a few tubes, and I’m scared to say I preferred the fotons over the two types of melz.

 

[Paladin79]

Oh dear. I recently picked up a few tubes, and I’m scared to say I preferred the fotons over the two types of melz.

Depends on which Melz, they were produced over a 40 year span and some are less in demand. I own both brands from some of the best years but the Fotons did not make the cut when using 25 criteria, the scored well in some areas but average and below average in others. I use the accuracy of a large group of people so while I am interested in individual points of view, I go about this in a different way. I will not post results on 1500 types of 6SN7’s and equivalents I have heard cause anyone can argue the X,Y, or Z tube was best for their ears and maybe they just spent $1,000 so it must be the best.

 

[DenverW]

This is what I was afraid of! Paladin is already mad at me ! This is truly what I deserve for straying from the goodness of 12au7.

 

[Paladin79]

This is what I was afraid of! Paladin is already mad at me ! This is truly what I deserve for straying from the goodness of 12au7.

Lol I just have opinions about tubes that may be different than your own.

 

[jonathan c]

Odd listing of the day (week / month)…

 

[TLO]

Odd listing of the day (week / month)…

No surprise...this seller, greengirl613, has been listing poor condition tubes at premium prices.

 

[raindownthunda]

I picked up a '61 Melz 1578 and while it sounds pretty great, there is an audible hum at all volumes that's quite distracting in quiet passages. I tested a few other 6SN7 which were dead silent to confirm it's this specific tube. The solder didn't look too healthy in the pins, so I heated the pins and used a solder sucker to remove as much of the original solder as I could before adding fresh solder. No luck - the hum persists. Anything else worth trying?

 

[bcowen]

I picked up a '61 Melz 1578 and while it sounds pretty great, there is an audible hum at all volumes that's quite distracting in quiet passages. I tested a few other 6SN7 which were dead silent to confirm it's this specific tube. The solder didn't look too healthy in the pins, so I heated the pins and used a solder sucker to remove as much of the original solder as I could before adding fresh solder. No luck - the hum persists. Anything else worth trying?

Two thoughts:

1) Did you use any flux when you resoldered? I've had to do a few tubes more than once in order to fix them, and began adding a flux step just to avoid that. Lots of flux formats out there and just an example linked below. I like the paste type in a syringe as it makes it easier to inject a good bit into the tube pin (and I'm lazy). Just don't cheap out on something inexpensive from China...get a name brand flux. I first suck all the old solder out, inject a good bit of the flux, and then with the tube pins pointed downward I heat the pins until all the flux smokes and bubbles out. Then clean any flux residue off the outside of the pins with isopropyl alcohol (so that the new solder doesn't stick to the outside), and then add new solder...and a good bit of it. The flux cleans the inside of the pin (and the element wire) nicely plus makes the new solder adhere better. The flux that's contained within the solder itself may not be sufficient to thoroughly clean the surfaces inside, especially with the age and possible oxidation level of what we're dealing with. Yes, it's time consuming to do it this way, but there are certain tubes like the Melz (and Tung Sol 5998's) where the effort is totally worth it if it saves the tube.

https://www.amazon.com/MG-Chemicals-milliliters-Pneumatic-Dispensing/dp/B00425FUW2/ref=sxin_16?asc_contentid=amzn1.osa.2cc43fb3-46d6-443e-8e34-607969b55be7.ATVPDKIKX0DER.en_US&asc_contenttype=article&ascsubtag=amzn1.osa.2cc43fb3-46d6-443e-8e34-607969b55be7.ATVPDKIKX0DER.en_US&creativeASIN=B00425FUW2&crid=HFVWJ5HXHOJF&cv_ct_cx=solder+flux&cv_ct_id=amzn1.osa.2cc43fb3-46d6-443e-8e34-607969b55be7.ATVPDKIKX0DER.en_US&cv_ct_pg=search&cv_ct_we=asin&cv_ct_wn=osp-single-source-earns-comm&keywords=solder+flux&linkCode=oas&pd_rd_i=B00425FUW2&pd_rd_r=b86d929a-4c83-44f1-931a-ca605ab91147&pd_rd_w=cnsng&pd_rd_wg=a2ID7&pf_rd_p=5846ecd6-3f37-4a28-8efc-9c817c03dbe9&pf_rd_r=BDMY4G7WH8187G7J03FA&qid=1645101239&sprefix=solder+flux,aps,84&sr=1-3-64f3a41a-73ca-403a-923c-8152c45485fe&tag=askmencontent-20

2) Are you sure the amp's socket is making good contact with the tube pins? The diameter of the tube pins on some of the Melz and Fotons I have seems to be smaller than the usual US tube pins. I've never measured them with a caliper, but some of these tubes slide very easily into the socket with little to no resistance compared to US tubes, which leads me to believe they are a smaller diameter. May want to check and be sure you're getting good contact at the socket, and re-tension them if needed.

 

[musicinmymind]

Thanks to brother, he sent me two version of Melz tubes 1961 and 1951. Not sure years marking are genuine. But will be interesting to compare with Kenrad I have.

 

[Paladin79]

Thanks to brother, he sent me two version of Melz tubes 1961 and 1951. Not sure years marking are genuine. But will be interesting to compare with Kenrad I have.

Look at the lower right portion of the Melz logo in the glass portion to get the date on the tubes not what is stamped on the metal. The one on the right looks a bit more like a 56 but the second number is not clear in the photo.

 

[musicinmymind]

Look at the lower right portion of the Melz logo in the glass portion to get the date on the tubes not what is stamped on the metal. The one on the right looks a bit more like a 56 but the second number is not clear in the photo.

Thanks, will check logo and post when I get home.

 

[Paladin79]

Two thoughts:

1) Did you use any flux when you resoldered? I've had to do a few tubes more than once in order to fix them, and began adding a flux step just to avoid that. Lots of flux formats out there and just an example linked below. I like the paste type in a syringe as it makes it easier to inject a good bit into the tube pin (and I'm lazy). Just don't cheap out on something inexpensive from China...get a name brand flux. I first suck all the old solder out, inject a good bit of the flux, and then with the tube pins pointed downward I heat the pins until all the flux smokes and bubbles out. Then clean any flux residue off the outside of the pins with isopropyl alcohol (so that the new solder doesn't stick to the outside), and then add new solder...and a good bit of it. The flux cleans the inside of the pin (and the element wire) nicely plus makes the new solder adhere better. The flux that's contained within the solder itself may not be sufficient to thoroughly clean the surfaces inside, especially with the age and possible oxidation level of what we're dealing with. Yes, it's time consuming to do it this way, but there are certain tubes like the Melz (and Tung Sol 5998's) where the effort is totally worth it if it saves the tube.

https://www.amazon.com/MG-Chemicals-milliliters-Pneumatic-Dispensing/dp/B00425FUW2/ref=sxin_16?asc_contentid=amzn1.osa.2cc43fb3-46d6-443e-8e34-607969b55be7.ATVPDKIKX0DER.en_US&asc_contenttype=article&ascsubtag=amzn1.osa.2cc43fb3-46d6-443e-8e34-607969b55be7.ATVPDKIKX0DER.en_US&creativeASIN=B00425FUW2&crid=HFVWJ5HXHOJF&cv_ct_cx=solder+flux&cv_ct_id=amzn1.osa.2cc43fb3-46d6-443e-8e34-607969b55be7.ATVPDKIKX0DER.en_US&cv_ct_pg=search&cv_ct_we=asin&cv_ct_wn=osp-single-source-earns-comm&keywords=solder+flux&linkCode=oas&pd_rd_i=B00425FUW2&pd_rd_r=b86d929a-4c83-44f1-931a-ca605ab91147&pd_rd_w=cnsng&pd_rd_wg=a2ID7&pf_rd_p=5846ecd6-3f37-4a28-8efc-9c817c03dbe9&pf_rd_r=BDMY4G7WH8187G7J03FA&qid=1645101239&sprefix=solder+flux,aps,84&sr=1-3-64f3a41a-73ca-403a-923c-8152c45485fe&tag=askmencontent-20

2) Are you sure the amp's socket is making good contact with the tube pins? The diameter of the tube pins on some of the Melz and Fotons I have seems to be smaller than the usual US tube pins. I've never measured them with a caliper, but some of these tubes slide very easily into the socket with little to no resistance compared to US tubes, which leads me to believe they are a smaller diameter. May want to check and be sure you're getting good contact at the socket, and re-tension them if needed.

I agree with some of this assessment, I have had to re-solder some Melz three times. I also repaired some GEC where it was obvious the solder was flowing around the pin wire but still not making good contact. The metal inside the pins can get very corroded, and indeed rosin flux cleans the metal. Never use acid flux with solder used in electronics, especially 60/40 solder that contains lead. I prefer liquid solder flux myself because it permeates better and it is what I was taught to use in a Kester six week solder course. I use a small plastic bottle with a needle top that will generate just a drop at a time. I also have top quality magnifier lights as well as a Nikon inspection microscope that helps me examine the inside of the pins.

The pin diameter on Russian tubes is between .093 inches and .094 inches, on US tubes I tried it is .091. What gives the illusion that the Russian pins are smaller is that they have a more closed opening at the top compared to US made tubes. There is often some solder build up on the outside of the tubes unless you are extremely careful and that in itself can stretch tube sockets. I measured the middle of each pin, as i moved towards the tips I got a variety of readings.

I should also mention I discovered it was a solder issue when I was first told it took 100 hours to break in a Foton, my background is science and I have studied tube theory so that statement left me scratching my head and wondering what was really going on. Many of the Foton and Melz tubes we are using are between 60 and 70 years old. I also use solder with a small silver content on the tube pins. I borrowed this statement rather than explaining leaching myself.

Adding silver to the process of soldering or brazing helps produce smooth, leak-tight, electrically conductive and corrosion-resistant joints.

 

[Paladin79]

Oh dear. I recently picked up a few tubes, and I’m scared to say I preferred the fotons over the two types of melz.

It is your amp and your ears and I would never argue what a person hears or does not hear. You will save a lot of money if you prefer the Fotons.

I am using amps I designed for the sole purpose of examining 6sn7 sound and they are also pretty revealing when it comes to certain power tubes. Most often the headphones my group and I used are Senn HD 800's or at home I use Focal Utopias with the same amps. @bcowen, @sam6550a, and @Ripper2860 know that amp sound and they might back me up to say it is revealing for tubes. Many of you may have better amps and headphones but I stopped at an $8,000 investment into tests I helped perform. Other friends donated a lot more in an attempt to hear any type of 6sn7 we could get our hands on.