The Qudelix-5K thread

[Eric0]

What I would like to know: Has anyone actually done frequency response measurements of their headphones or IEMs and used the dual independent EQ to match left and right side?

Sort of. I'm using my ears as the test rig to create a perceived FR chart.

I have mild hearing loss of higher frequencies in my left ear.

I use EqualizerAPO and Peace to determine threshold of hearing data. I translate this to normal listening volume using equal loudness data. And then there are some adjustments I make based on past results.

I can then feed this data into AutoEQ along with a target influenced by Harman. It's not exactly Harman because that's for a specific test rig, but the ideas to compensate for various types of ear gain at different frequencues are similar.

My EQ settings are generally the same under 500 Hz and reach their peak differences at about 8000 Hz.

The end result is that my ears perceive near equal loudness through the frequency range. There's about a 25 dB difference when uncorrected at 8 kHz. This shows up both in my data and the audiogram from my audiologist. This generally corresponds to roughly half that at normal listening volumes. Simplified, I cut the right by about 6 dB and add about 6 dB to the left, and it gets really close. I'm adjusting the "FR chart" data I get and then letting AutoEQ generate the settings, and I've had great success with that approach.

Music sounds centered to me after applying the custom PEQ by channel. I'm using "I" above, but these aren't all my original ideas. I've learned a lot from someone else already doing this.

 

[Moulderine]

has anyone been able to source the replacement batteries? Searched for the model: 682134 but can't even find it even on the Chinese marketplaces

 

[CactusPete23]

has anyone been able to source the replacement batteries? Searched for the model: 682134 but can't even find it even on the Chinese marketplaces

FYI: That number is actually the dimensions of the battery. So an LIPO that is smaller than 6.8mm thick, by 21mm by 34mm will fit. And maybe can be up to 7mm X 22 By 36 and still fit. (That would be a 702236... But best to measure space in device to be sure it will fit before buying. Also I remember another member showing that you need a SECURITY TORX driver in 5mm to open the back.) It's a pain to find replacement batteries for devices, because to have to search multiple combinations. 652134, 662134, 682234, 682135, 682235, etc... Smaller dimensions will likely have less capacity, slightly larger may have a bit more capacity. 0.2 thickness, and 1mm length or width probably won't change capacity that you would notice.

 

[Moulderine]

FYI: That number is actually the dimensions of the battery. So an LIPO that is smaller than 6.8mm thick, by 21mm by 34mm will fit. And maybe can be up to 7mm X 22 By 36 and still fit. (That would be a 702236... But best to measure space in device to be sure it will fit before buying. Also I remember another member showing that you need a SECURITY TORX driver in 5mm to open the back.) It's a pain to find replacement batteries for devices, because to have to search multiple combinations. 652134, 662134, 682234, 682135, 682235, etc... Smaller dimensions will likely have less capacity, slightly larger may have a bit more capacity. 0.2 thickness, and 1mm length or width probably won't change capacity that you would notice.

Great context thanks. Yeah I have the right screwdriver part but the battery sourcing has been an issue so this is appreciated.

I would honestly prefer to just say forget it and just buy a new one but since there has not even been a minor revision since launch I can't justify it. Now I will have to learn to solder....

 

[CactusPete23]

Great context thanks. Yeah I have the right screwdriver part but the battery sourcing has been an issue so this is appreciated.

I would honestly prefer to just say forget it and just buy a new one but since there has not even been a minor revision since launch I can't justify it. Now I will have to learn to solder....

I saw a bunch of size 702035 batteries available on Aliexpress (And eBay, and amazon.com, etc). Many with same 500mah capacity rating, like the original. I am guessing that that they would fit. Might be worth a try? You only need the 2 wire (black and red" the battery, not the harder to find 3 wire type.
Let us know if you try. Good luck.

 

[Takura]

No, but I wouldn't do EQ this way for headphones or IEMs. Only for speakers. If you do independent L/R EQ, you would create potential phase issues. One of the big benefits of doing EQ with headphones/IEMs is that there's no need for linear phase EQ... as long as you EQ both channels together.

Thanks for the reply! Coming from car audio and using All-pass or even FIR filters to keep phase in check, introducing phase issues by correcting FR was one of the issues I had in mind.

To fully understand your points: So, the same amount of phase difference between L/R channels would be a larger issue with headphones/IEMs than with speakers? And, the linear phase and minimum phase filters of the 5K would similarly affect phase differently for L/R channels if I applied independent L/R EQ, and neither of them would ensure that phase differences are minimal and below noticeable threshold?

Lower/higher price doesn't matter. Has more to do with the distortion profile and phase response of the headphone/IEM you're EQing.

My assumption was that lower price IEMs would be more likely to have worse QC and larger differences between L and R FR, which may make more sense to correct - even though that might also introduce more phase difference.

 

[Takura]

Sort of. I'm using my ears as the test rig to create a perceived FR chart.

I have mild hearing loss of higher frequencies in my left ear.

I use EqualizerAPO and Peace to determine threshold of hearing data. I translate this to normal listening volume using equal loudness data. And then there are some adjustments I make based on past results.

I can then feed this data into AutoEQ along with a target influenced by Harman. It's not exactly Harman because that's for a specific test rig, but the ideas to compensate for various types of ear gain at different frequencues are similar.

My EQ settings are generally the same under 500 Hz and reach their peak differences at about 8000 Hz.

The end result is that my ears perceive near equal loudness through the frequency range. There's about a 25 dB difference when uncorrected at 8 kHz. This shows up both in my data and the audiogram from my audiologist. This generally corresponds to roughly half that at normal listening volumes. Simplified, I cut the right by about 6 dB and add about 6 dB to the left, and it gets really close. I'm adjusting the "FR chart" data I get and then letting AutoEQ generate the settings, and I've had great success with that approach.

Music sounds centered to me after applying the custom PEQ by channel. I'm using "I" above, but these aren't all my original ideas. I've learned a lot from someone else already doing this.

Thanks for the reply. That is interesting and can imagine from your explanation that this is useful. If this is okay to ask: (A) Has your hearing in real life adapted to perceive center “correctly” but that adaptation doesn’t carry over to headphones/IEMs, or (B) is it so mild that it matters only in critical listening and not so much in real life, or (C) something that humans don’t adapt to?

 

[longestsprout]

I personally don't think the 5K sounds very good for most over-ear headphones, even when it technically should be able to drive them just fine.

I can't swear that impression would hold up to double blind testing, but anytime I use the 5K for headphones I end up thinking "hmmmm, this doesn't sound as good as I thought it did."

Then the next time I use the same headphone at my desktop setup I go "ohhhhh, much better."

It might just be sighted bias but :/ there it is.

A lot of stuff that should sound good on paper just ain't that good on the 5K.

This is the case for me too, unfortunately. Some people are completely happy with the 5k as their endgame and I'm actively painfully envious. It has killer software. Imagine if it was the only thing you would ever need.

 

[Hypops]

Thanks for the reply! Coming from car audio and using All-pass or even FIR filters to keep phase in check, introducing phase issues by correcting FR was one of the issues I had in mind.

To fully understand your points: So, the same amount of phase difference between L/R channels would be a larger issue with headphones/IEMs than with speakers? And, the linear phase and minimum phase filters of the 5K would similarly affect phase differently for L/R channels if I applied independent L/R EQ, and neither of them would ensure that phase differences are minimal and below noticeable threshold?

The 5K only has minimum phase EQ IIRC. Unless there’s a very serious channel imbalance or unless you have a major imbalance between the hearing in your left and right ear, there’s no reason to EQ each channel separately. You run risk of introducing bigger problems than those you’d be solving IMO.

My assumption was that lower price IEMs would be more likely to have worse QC and larger differences between L and R FR, which may make more sense to correct - even though that might also introduce more phase difference.

If there’s an imbalance that is so severe that you feel the need to correct it, you should just return the set for a new one.

 

[Tom Brown]

Is it worth it buying the 5K just for the battery? I don't wanna use bluetooth because lossy. Why only bluetooth DACs have batteries? I just don't want to suck my phone's battery.

Yes. BT is lossless up to, and including, CD quality. It isn't until you step up to high sampling rate, high sample depth, that it starts to get lossy but it's still better than CD and is very impressive.

You can always connect USB for lossless. Lossy BT is indistinguishable from USB to me. On my best quality material, using a pair of planars, I could probably tell the difference but the Q5K isn't suited to heavy loads like that so it couldn't matter less.

 

[Eric0]

(A) Has your hearing in real life adapted to perceive center “correctly” but that adaptation doesn’t carry over to headphones/IEMs, or (B) is it so mild that it matters only in critical listening and not so much in real life, or (C) something that humans don’t adapt to?

Both ears are normal hearing up to 3 kHz. The left is ever so slightly worse than the right between 500 Hz and 3 kHz. Speech is 90-330 Hz.

At 3 kHz and above, the left is categorized as mild hearing loss. My doctor told me hearing aids wouldn't do anything for me since this is well above speech. I have tinnitus, and he thinks my loss is mild enough that they wouldn't impact my tinnitus, either.

I don't notice that my right ear sounds louder in normal life situations. Doesn't sound off center when I listen to speakers. Listening to headphones meant sound was biased toward the right for higher frequencies.

When I first tried equalizing the volume, the left sounded weird. My brain wasn't used to hearing higher frequencies at equal volume. A few hours of listening (needed to burn in my brain ), this started sounding normal. When I take off eq, I can definitely tell I'm hearing more from my right ear. But without headphones, my brain knows how to balance what it's hearing. Using EQ with headphones hasn't changed my perception without headphones. I wasn't sure what to expect.

The difference in hearing is easier for me to determine when I'm listening to pure sine waves. It's obvious that tones starting around 3 kHz sound more to the right than center when listening to headphones. Applying my custom EQ moves these to almost the center.

 

[bithalver]

Yes. BT is lossless up to, and including, CD quality.

Did I miss any very new generally supported Bluetooth coded lately ? AFAIK CD lossless needs 1411 kBs and (not counting Snapdragon Sound which is not widely available yet) no BT codec can provide that. Even LDAC is just 990 kBs.

Have you guys ever measured your listening volume?

To day I learned that I listen at 67dB, which is apparently quite quiet

I tried the 86dB, and I couldn’t even bring the IEM near my ears.

I did not measure mine, but as I see many posts for IEM needing extra amplification I assume most of you listen to much higher levels than I do.

On Onix Xi1, I use 40 for I/O Volare (original cable) and ~32 for Penon Fan3 (Penon Space cable). Out of 100 ! Sure I use 4-6 more steps on one track I really like and want it loud but that's it.
iBasso DC04Pro: 40 for TSMR X (Penon Pyramid or ASOS cable) and sometimes I lower that.
High gain and all turbo-like feature turned on both; also using 4.4mm cable/connection.

Edit: grammar.

 

[o0genesis0o]

Did I miss any very new generally supported Bluetooth coded lately ? AFAIK CD losless needs 1411 kBs and (not counting Snapdragon Sound which is not widely available yet) no BT codec can provide that. Even LDAC is jus 990 kBs.

I did not measure mine, but as I see many posts for IEM needing extra amplification I assume most of you listen to much higher levels than I do.

On Onix Xi1, I use 40 for I/O Volare (original cable) and ~32 for Penon Fan3 (Penon Space cable). Out of 100 ! Sure I use 4-6 more steps on one track I really like and want it loud but that's it.
iBasso DC04Pro: 40 for TSMR X (Penon Pyramid or ASOS cable) and sometimes I lower that.
High gain and all turbo-like feature turned on both; also using 4.4mm cable/connection.

I don’t think we need more power. After all, if the IEM can reach a certain volume, it has enough mW. Having more mW than that does not really matter directly. It’s something else, maybe more power reserve for transients or faster response or ability to not running into current limitations thay accompany bigger max output that gives that “scaling”. Personally, I dislike amps that are very loud (lots of gain) but do not give that snappy response and more spread out soundstage of really powerful devices.

 

[Takura]

Both ears are normal hearing up to 3 kHz. The left is ever so slightly worse than the right between 500 Hz and 3 kHz. Speech is 90-330 Hz.

At 3 kHz and above, the left is categorized as mild hearing loss. My doctor told me hearing aids wouldn't do anything for me since this is well above speech. I have tinnitus, and he thinks my loss is mild enough that they wouldn't impact my tinnitus, either.

I don't notice that my right ear sounds louder in normal life situations. Doesn't sound off center when I listen to speakers. Listening to headphones meant sound was biased toward the right for higher frequencies.

When I first tried equalizing the volume, the left sounded weird. My brain wasn't used to hearing higher frequencies at equal volume. A few hours of listening (needed to burn in my brain ), this started sounding normal. When I take off eq, I can definitely tell I'm hearing more from my right ear. But without headphones, my brain knows how to balance what it's hearing. Using EQ with headphones hasn't changed my perception without headphones. I wasn't sure what to expect.

The difference in hearing is easier for me to determine when I'm listening to pure sine waves. It's obvious that tones starting around 3 kHz sound more to the right than center when listening to headphones. Applying my custom EQ moves these to almost the center.

Thank you so much for the explanations. Helped me understand and appreciate devices like the 5K and manufacturers like Qudelix that support independent EQ.

 

[Hypops]

Did I miss any very new generally supported Bluetooth coded lately ? AFAIK CD lossless needs 1411 kBs and (not counting Snapdragon Sound which is not widely available yet) no BT codec can provide that. Even LDAC is jus 990 kBs.

Ha. Yeah. And even the claim that LDAC hits 990 is only a "best case scenario." Based on independent testing and measurement, all of the fancy "hi-res" BT codecs regularly drop well below that. Bluetooth still can't even compete with CD quality, let alone anything better. It's a shame that Bluetooth is so widespread because it has proven time and time again to be inadequate to the task of music streaming.