[billybob_jcv]

I can't help thinking that your descriptions might point toward planar magnetic headphones. Perhaps they would give you the smoothness, detail, neutrality and extension you desire? Unfortunately, near your price range, those options are limited to the Mr. Speakers Mad Dogs and the HiFiMan HE400. The Mad Dogs are excellent headphones, but I'm not sure they are the right solution in this case. They need some power to perform well, and they are very heavy on your head. They also might not have the treble detail you are looking for. The HE400 might work, I found them too bright for my tastes, but many other people love them. The HE400 takes more power than the Philips or the Sennheisers, but not nearly as much as the Mad Dogs.

 

[Tavilyn]

Funny you should mention that. I did ask about the Mad Dog or Mad Dog Pro, even though they're closed, but I was literally just having a look at the Hifiman 400 and 400I. The 400I appears to be better pretty much across the board, and more comfortable to boot.
The x2 is pretty heavy, and it doesn't bother me a bit, by the way, if that's any sort of point of reference. If the headphone is comfy and isn't wobbling and swaying all over my head trying to fall off every time I twitch, I'm probably not going to mind overmuch about the weight.
So, I'm sure this has been asked before, but aside from the really technical bits, what's different about a planar-magnetic set of cans? I can't audition these, so I'm kinda curious.
I'm also coming to realize something. The Logitech G35 has been my regular headset for about two and a half years now. Its sybillant sounds are strong, and it has decent but sort of flabby bass. Its mids are fairly recessed, by comparison; I think the sound signature would be considered v-shaped, probably to a pretty extreme eeasure. Its soundstage is also crap. What I'm figuring out is that going from, say, the HD598s back to the g35 is night and day. The G35s are more crisp, if you like the s and th sounds drawn out and if you like all cymbals to sparkle and shine; it's bassy, if you like your bass to boom. When I first tried the 498s, and then the x2, I think I was expecting this sort of sizzle as normal, and anything less as a "treble dip" of significant enough proportions that it would be considered a flaw in my eyes. The more I listen, the more I realize that, while I do like clear and present treble, I'm not a raw treblehead, and I'm not as okay with that insane sparkle as I thought I was. I want some of it, not all of it. Heh. The Soundmagic HP200 sorta taught me that. Man but those cans are punishing at times.
Anyway, thanks for getting back to me and for the mention of the HE400s. I do appreciate all the help.

 

[cel4145]

If you are going back and forth between the Logitech G35 and HD598, this is also why you were having trouble hearing the detail in the highs on the 598. It's a bit more subdued. If I listen to a more forward headphone like that, and then go to a headphone that is more reserved, it takes awhile for my ears to adjust.

The HE-400/HE-400i might not be the best choice to couple with the E10K. They are a bit insensitive. Depending on the volumes you listen to, you might end up with squashed dynamics.

 

[Tavilyn]

Yeah, I'm sorry about that. Switching from one to another probably doesn't help things.
I couldn't say to an exact number how loud my music is. For more intimate tracks it's, like, TV volume on average, maybe a shade louder; if you were hearing it on speakers you could talk over it, but you'd need to be just a little louder than average unless your voice is naturally brassy or full. For metal or harder rock, I give it a little bit of a kick, so that if you were hearing it on speakers and trying to talk in the same room, you'd have to raise your voice...maybe not yell, but definitely you couldn't just converse in normal across-a-small-room tones and expect to be heard easily. I try and intersperse my listening and I avoid binging on harder stuff for long periods. I don't know if that's going to help, honestly.
I'm still sorta kinda looking for a better portable amp/dac than the E10K. The E10K isn't bad, but it seems like a lot of headphones don't like it much. Beyerd don't, Sen HP600 and up doesn't, and the planar-magnetics dn't either.
Should I even consider mad dogs/mad dog pro? Also, would you (as in, any of you) say that I should endeavor to get the HD600 as a benchmark? Or is the HD598 good enough for that?
Part of me, a small part, has the feeling I'm going about this whole auditioning thing in a bad way, especially given what happened with the cymbals on the HD598 and that night-and-day difference I've noticed. If I screwed that up, how much else did I screw up?

 

[cel4145]

The E10K is a great budget headphone amp. But yeah. With all the other headphones you are considering, it might make sense to upgrade. It really depends on how much the E10K ends up being pushed at your listening volumes. When we get close to max volume on an amp with difficult to drive headphones, we may be losing dynamics and be starting to get some (might be subtle) distortion out of the amp.

My car stereo has a very uneven frequency response. Too much upper mids and highs (one day I have to see about upgrading). When I listen to it much, I find it makes less forward sounding headphones sound dull to me. Think of it as like food. Subtle cuisine coupled with strong tasting flavors (e.g. spicy mexican) will often taste bland, when it other times you can better taste the nuances and appreciate them. Drink a smooth merlot after a really good bold cab sav with lots of tannins and it can seem to have no flavor. I'd recommend not using your Logitech G35 for a week and getting comfortable with the HD598 sound.

 

[Tavilyn]

Well...I don't know how much this will matter, as far as details go, but the E10K can push the X2, HD598 and Soundmagic HP200 so loud they hurt. Needless to say I don't keep them there; when I had that cymbal issue with the HD598s, it wasn't near the top, but it was north of normal for me, further complicating the situation.
I think you're right. Aside from wanting better sound, part of the point of this was to get away from the g35, so I think moving away definitively is a good idea.
One of the reasons I was so disappointed with the DT880 250-ohm was that even with the E10K maxed in volume, the DT880 wasn't quite as loud as I sometimes push rock and metal. Close, but not quite; and personally that strikes me as a bad thing, since as you said, driving near max volume is probably going to sacrifice even more. The others currently at my home don't have that problem so I don't think I'm missing much.
Funny thing though: I can't make myself like the HP200. I thought I would, but bass only comes out when they're within a hair's breadth of maxed volume, and that amount of noise is just ow. Tried ten or twelve seconds of "More Human Than Human" during instrumentals, and I literally squinshed my eyes shut. Won't be repeating that; getting that much slam with that much sacrifice is just no good.

 

[cel4145]

One of the reasons I was so disappointed with the DT880 250-ohm was that even with the E10K maxed in volume, the DT880 wasn't quite as loud as I sometimes push rock and metal. Close, but not quite; and personally that strikes me as a bad thing, since as you said, driving near max volume is probably going to sacrifice even more. The others currently at my home don't have that problem so I don't think I'm missing much.

Yep. That tells you right there that you probably want a better amplifier if you want to pursue trying out these other headphones.

What happens with an amp is that they generally run very clean until they get close to their limits. Then distortion rises pretty fast. Then they eventually clip--can't play any louder with distortion very high. Now while that won't affect the quite parts of the song, and the distortion might not yet be audible at the average volume of parts of the song, songs have peaks where certain parts will be a loud louder--and so you can get some distortion there, as well as the fact that your dynamic range will be squashed--it won't be playing those peaks as loud as it should. I find this also happens a lot with sub bass since it requires a good bit of power to produce the frequencies over the mids and highs. So the mids and highs will sound fine with a weaker amp at higher volumes, but then with bass heavy music, the bass tends to get distorted a bit and lose dynamics.

I would invest in whichever is cheaper between the Schiit Modi 2/Magni 2 or the Audio-GD NFB-15. Note that for the purpose of important, Audio-GD puts a lower price on the paper work to help with fees.

Or since you already have the E10K, you could just get the Magni 2 and use the DAC in the E10K via it's line out.

 

[Tavilyn]

I don't have a lot of comparison or knowledge about amps and dacs and stuff. I presume the magni/modi stack is not portable, not really. It could fit in a bag, but definitely not in a pocket or something. I took a look at the NFB15 as well, and it appears a bit smaller but ultimately the same thing. I suppose that the better you get, the less likely you are to be able to have what you want literally in the palm of your hand; there just isn't enough room for the necessary components.
All that said, is there any noticeable difference in sound between a magni/modi stack and the NFB? If I get one or the other (or something else in similar range), is it going to colour my impressions of things like the HD600/650 or Hifiman 400I, or even the mad dog pro if I go that route?

 

[cel4145]

You could get the ODAC and Objective 2. It's a pretty small unit combined. If you get them as separates, then the Objective 2 can hold batteries. Not pocket portable, but definitely transportable easily enough in a laptop back.

If the amp you use to listen to headphones won't drive them properly for the volume you listen to, then that is coloring your interpretation of them.

 

[Tavilyn]

Yeah. The only cans I had that issue with were the DT880s. The 598s, x2s and HP200s were all driven well enough. As for sound colouring I don't really know, but all reviews basically said all of these headphones sounded quite good unamped, and I don't think the E10K's sound is particularly noteworthy in any direction. It's probably not making the x2 meaty or the Soundmagic particularly sizzly; those things are there by default and the E10K just displays them rather than beefing them up.
I'm still kind of wondering what I'd be sacrificing on a higher-end can if I went closed. That's why I was asking about mad dog pros and the Denon line, plus the P7.
I will have t look at the o2 or whatever it is; that, at least, appears to have the added benefit that if I'm ever able to try the HD650s, the O2 will drive them and make them sound at least decent, if not top-notch.
I don't need to wrench every tiny drop of perfection out of a headphone, believe it or not. I do like knowing which amp fits which headphone, but only snsofar as I wouldn't want to pair a bright amp with a bright set of cans, lest the resultant brightness be over the top. Same with bass, for that matter; too much bass is probably worse than not enough.