[spwath]

Cool. Its cooler if you could brief the sound character based on that.
How about the sound of headphones with FR as below?

I'm going to say you are being sarcastic there.

No, you cant tell the whole sound of a headphone based on the measurements. But they are important.

Maybe I'm missing something... doesn't seem like it? Except for the location of the peaks.

IDK, I mean, it is it. My measurement rig may not be the most accurate.
And it seems pretty close to me.

 

[Sonic Defender]

Maybe I'm missing something... doesn't seem like it? Except for the location of the peaks.

I was thinking the same thing.

 

[thatonenoob]

Cool. Its cooler if you could brief the sound character based on that.
How about the sound of headphones with FR as below?

Wrong graph.

 

[up late]

The odds of there being production variation this wide is remote. FAR more likely we are dealing with measurement error. The reality of the situation is that measurements are indeed quite tricky to do correctly and even very minor positional/environmental factors can and will change the results. Based on how well controlled Jude's measurement system is, and that it has been jointly crafted with the help and guidance of the companies who provide the equipment used, it is in my mind very clear that Jude's rig has the best chance of controlling for extraneous factors. That isn't meant to be dismissive or disrespectful to the efforts of others, but I know where my confidence lies. Following that, my subjective perception of the Z1R also very closely lies with what Jude seems to be measuring. Heck if I was closer I would happily send my Z1R to be measured as well. More data points = more confidence. Tyll really should take Jude up on his offer and send his unit here for measurement.

are you familiar with tyll's measurement rig? if not then you can find out about it at his site. he's also very experienced at taking them.

 

[Sonic Defender]

are you familiar with tyll's measurement rig? if not then you can find out about it at his site. he's also very experienced at taking them.

Yes, but my feeling still remains the same. I did not mean to imply that Tyll lacks skill or very good testing equipment.

 

[TMRaven]

I've seen 5 or 6 different measurements of the Z1R to date. All of them except Jude's show the 9-10khz peak.

 

[thatonenoob]

I believe the issue is less of the 10k peak, but its magnitude.

 

[spwath]

The odds of there being production variation this wide is remote. FAR more likely we are dealing with measurement error. The reality of the situation is that measurements are indeed quite tricky to do correctly and even very minor positional/environmental factors can and will change the results. Based on how well controlled Jude's measurement system is, and that it has been jointly crafted with the help and guidance of the companies who provide the equipment used, it is in my mind very clear that Jude's rig has the best chance of controlling for extraneous factors. That isn't meant to be dismissive or disrespectful to the efforts of others, but I know where my confidence lies. Following that, my subjective perception of the Z1R also very closely lies with what Jude seems to be measuring. Heck if I was closer I would happily send my Z1R to be measured as well. More data points = more confidence. Tyll really should take Jude up on his offer and send his unit here for measurement.

If there is measurement error, then it is with jude.
Look:

Tyll:

https://clarityfidelity.blogspot.com/

Thatonenoob

http://www.lesnumeriques.com/casque-audio/sony-mdr-z1r-p34825/test.html

Me

 

[Sonic Defender]

I've seen 5 or 6 different measurements of the Z1R to date. All of them except Jude's show the 9-10khz peak.

That might mean something or nothing. We need to see the same headphones tested on one rig. If they always differ between rigs that tells us it is measurement differences, and then people can decide which system they believe in. I know my ears do not sense any 10kHz peak, certainly not near enough a magnitude that those others systems seem to be measuring. I think it may be telling that it is common knowledge that frequencies up very high such as 10kHz need to be taken with a grain of salt as they are quite prone to measurement anomalies.

 

[nanaholic]

I believe the issue is less of the 10k peak, but its magnitude.

This.

The difference between Jude and Tyll's peak magnitude at 10k is something like 3~4dB, that's actually enough sound pressure difference to cause a noticeable difference to an average person scientifically speaking at ALL audible frequencies (and not caused by subjective preferences of "peakiness"). Throw in subjective preferences and you may very well begin to explain the difference in the conclusion of the reviews.

 

[up late]

Yes, but my feeling still remains the same. I did not mean to imply that Tyll lacks skill or very good testing equipment.

i'm not sure how we can test the validity of your feeling on this matter in the absence of a scientifically rigorous comparison of jude's and tyll's measurement rigs and methodologies

 

[Sonic Defender]

i'm not sure how we can test the validity of your feeling on this matter in the absence of a scientifically rigorous comparison of jude's and tyll's measurement rigs and methodologies

We can't, but we can hopefully have several more Z1Rs' measured here on Jude's rig, including Tyll's. At least that would put the idea of production variation to rest.

 

[Sonic Defender]

This.

The difference between Jude and Tyll's peak magnitude at 10k is something like 3~4dB, that's actually enough sound pressure difference to cause a noticeable difference to an average person scientifically speaking at ALL audible frequencies (and not caused by subjective preferences of "peakiness"). Throw in subjective preferences and you may very well begin to explain the difference in the conclusion of the reviews.

That is what he was also suggesting so you two are in agreement.

 

[up late]

We can't, but we can hopefully have several more Z1Rs' measured here on Jude's rig, including Tyll's. At least that would put the idea of production variation to rest.

or on tyll's rig if that's acceptable

 

[MacedonianHero]

i wasn't suggesting that they were the same. i was referring to where the spikes occurred in the treble region of @thatonenoob's fr measurements rather than the magnitude of them. as i said in my exchange of posts with him "clarityfidelity's fr graph also shows treble peaks at 3khz and 10khz. that site's measurements most closely align with tyll's at a glance." the treble peaks appear in four sets of measurements from different sources, which include a source that you favour over innerfidelity. I also said in my exchange of posts with @thatonenoob that "variations in headphone measurements from different sources employing different measurement methodologies are to be expected, which is why comparing them isn't recommended. we should regard headphone measurements as indicative rather than absolute. that said, the ringing appearing at the same two frequencies in [four] different sets of measurements is notable."

I agree that comparing different measurement setups isn't going to work due to the nature of different setups. As my work (previously linked) measurements start to really lose precision around 3-4kHz and really start to vary by 8kHz. Measuring these high frequencies is quite difficult with high degrees of precision...so copious amounts of salt are needed in this range (again, generally speaking only).