[Kyle 491]

  I guess we are all a bunch of fools who like bad quality bass. I take it you owned a Z1R and sold it? Now I am going by audio memory as I sold my TH900, but Idon't hear any large discrepency is taughtness or slam with the Z1R. Ultimately the mids on the TH900 were a little too distant for me, not very bad, but not what I was hoping for and the treble was a tad challenging at times so when looking at the totality of the package the Z1R is the winner for me.

Not necessarily fools, just deaf 

.  Its not like the Z1R is inferior in every aspect to the TH900, its just overall lower in capability on a technical level, and retails at a higher price tag, which I find offensive. The Z1R has arguably a more agreeable frequency response and a richer lower mid-range, which makes it preferable for maybe 5% of the music I listen to (a lot is comprised of instrumental live performances, classical and OSTs. But its bass is quite bad, no two ways about it. I've listened to the TH900 and Z1R for a month,switching between them frequently on a variety of amps and dacs.

Just out of curiosity what material do you listen to and what levels do you listen at. My experience with these headphones is not at all as you describe it and while I don't drive the headphone to extreme ear damaging levels I have punished them significantly.

 Let me reference my post from the TH900 thread for a few examples.
 

   
I know I'm not the only one getting tired of the effusive praise being bestowed on the mediocre Sony flagship, but I'd like to challenge this perception anyway that the Sony is comparable to the TH900 in bass; after comparing them head to head for a month, the Sony is a joke in terms of bass impact, tightness and overall power next to the TH900. TH900 has a much cleaner sub-bass and is more visceral & dynamic. It didn't even take 2 songs for me to see this, and some of the distortion measurements posted on other sites back this view up. If anyone has these two headphones, try listening to Massive Attack- Angel,  Telarc 1812 Overture (cannonfire section), Elderscrolls Skyrim Main theme where its easily audible.
 
Frankly the Sony has mediocre technicalities overall, inferior to the TH900. When I read in a few review that the Z1R midrange is superior to the TH900, I find it hard not to roll my eyes. Z1R midrange is MORE recessed than the TH900 when you listen to any massed vocals and has a truly ugly upper mid-range ringing characteristic that makes electric guitars sound very odd on occasion and ruins complex vocal harmonies. Female vocals are frankly a bore on this headphone, it has the honour of making me actually fall asleep while listening to Loreena McKennit- Live at the Alhambra, so uninvolving and subdued the presentation.
 
About the only genre I'd take the Sony over the TH900 is heavily processed pop music with close-miked, male-heavy vocals, where its lower midrange richness relative to TH900 is an advantage, and its disproportionately wide-yet-shallow headstage has no bearing on the non-existent imaging in this music. Ah, thats another thing the TH900 does much better than the Sony, the staging is much more proportionate in height, depth and width next to the lop-sided mess of the Sony, which takes the oft-mentioned HD800 bugbear of having a "too wide" soundstage and owns it outright.

 
I do listen fairly loud sometimes in excess of 90db. My hearing has been tested excellent though, and I can hear up to 18.5k

 

[PeteSTRADAMUS]

  Not necessarily fools, just deaf 

.  Its not like the Z1R is inferior in every aspect to the TH900, its just overall lower in capability on a technical level, and retails at a higher price tag, which I find offensive. The Z1R has arguably a more agreeable frequency response and a richer lower mid-range, which makes it preferable for maybe 5% of the music I listen to (a lot is comprised of instrumental live performances, classical and OSTs. But its bass is quite bad, no two ways about it. I've listened to the TH900 and Z1R for a month,switching between them frequently on a variety of amps and dacs.
 Let me reference my post from the TH900 thread for a few examples.
 
 
I do listen fairly loud sometimes in excess of 90db. My hearing has been tested excellent though, and I can hear up to 18.5k

When i hear bright tones or even someone yelling by me i get agitated. Like i feel utter pain and a beeeeep sound in my ears. Not a good feeling.

 

[fullranger]

"I know I'm not the only one getting tired of the effusive praise being bestowed on the mediocre Sony flagship..."
Well, my friend, nobody who bought them and praises them here on this thread are the ones who speak like that.
Don't bad mouth the Z1R too much or you might cause a depression in their resale value!
I'm sure you can list them for sale here on head-fi, and unload them pretty quickly to one of us deef peeps.

 

[TSAVJason]

Not necessarily fools, just deaf  .  Its not like the Z1R is inferior in every aspect to the TH900, its just overall lower in capability on a technical level, and retails at a higher price tag, which I find offensive. The Z1R has arguably a more agreeable frequency response and a richer lower mid-range, which makes it preferable for maybe 5% of the music I listen to (a lot is comprised of instrumental live performances, classical and OSTs. But its bass is quite bad, no two ways about it. I've listened to the TH900 and Z1R for a month,switching between them frequently on a variety of amps and dacs.
 Let me reference my post from the TH900 thread for a few examples.


I do listen fairly loud sometimes in excess of 90db. My hearing has been tested excellent though, and I can hear up to 18.5k

It's an interesting to me that anyone would have any respect for the 900 unless they like bass dominant headphones. I don't agree but my opinion isn't the absolute for all listeners. I love bass, In fact I'm a bassist but it has a place in music that isn't where the 900 place it. Just my 2 cents I guess

 

[fullranger]

Oh, I just thought of this. Maybe this guy is thinking of the other recent Sony flagship, the MDR-Z7. I don't think it could stack up to a TH900, so that would be a fair way to interpret the comparison anomaly.

 

[PeteSTRADAMUS]

It's an interesting to me that anyone would have any respect for the 900 unless they like bass dominant headphones. I don't agree but my opinion isn't the absolute for all listeners. I love bass, In fact I'm a bassist but it has a place in music that isn't where the 900 place it. Just my 2 cents I guess

Well i will also add my loose change here. Have ton's in my pocket. So here we go. I got rid of the Nighthawk because the biocellulose hurts my ears. So i'm thinking i would get the same issue with the Foxtex because it uses the same driver technology. And in no way shape or form the Th900 even touches the Z1R. That's a remark that causes laughter.

 

[TSAVJason]

Oh, I just thought of this. Maybe this guy is thinking of the other recent Sony flagship, the MDR-Z7. I don't think it could stack up to a TH900, so that would be a fair way to interpret the comparison anomaly.

That's a pretty old recent

 

[Kyle 491]

It's an interesting to me that anyone would have any respect for the 900 unless they like bass dominant headphones. I don't agree but my opinion isn't the absolute for all listeners. I love bass, In fact I'm a bassist but it has a place in music that isn't where the 900 place it. Just my 2 cents I guess

 
The Sony Z1R is a bass-dominant headphone also, please don't pretend otherwise. Also, being a bassist doesn't mean that you aren't deaf. Don't take this for an insult, I like a lively debate and am not averse to being proven wrong, but shallow appeals to authority aren't going to win you this argument so easily. TH900 sub-bass is audibly and measurably cleaner, tighter and has more impact. It is more amenable to EQ than the Z1R if you find it too bass-heavy too, or bass-light.

 

[TSAVJason]

When i hear bright tones or even someone yelling by me i get agitated. Like i feel utter pain and a beeeeep sound in my ears. Not a good feeling.

OH YEAH????? lol

 

[PeteSTRADAMUS]

OH YEAH????? lol

Yeah, so i can bare good quality sound loud. But a little distortion and i'm dying. 

 

[TSAVJason]

The Sony Z1R is a bass-dominant headphone also, please don't pretend otherwise. Also, being a bassist doesn't mean that you aren't deaf. Don't take this for an insult, I like a lively debate and am not averse to being proven wrong, but shallow appeals to authority aren't going to win you this argument so easily. TH900 sub-bass is audibly and measurably cleaner, tighter and has more impact. It is more amenable to EQ than the Z1R if you find it too bass-heavy too, or bass-light.

Now now now, don't get all up in a tizzy just because someone disagrees with you. In fact the Z1R does have significant bass lift by comparison to many headphones. I've said that since the launch here in the US. With that said it's not as dominant as the 900 by a pretty sizable difference. Clearly your listening preference is different than mine .....so don't take my opinion as a personal attack. I never make comments in that way.

 

[PeteSTRADAMUS]

Now now now, don't get all up in a tizzy just because someone disagrees with you. In fact the Z1R does have significant bass lift by comparison to many headphones. I've said that since the launch here in the US. With that said it's not as dominant as the 900 by a pretty sizable difference. Clearly your listening preference is different than mine .....so don't take my opinion as a personal attack. I never make comments in that way.

Them words here in NJ are some fighting words right there lol. I anticipate no hitting below the belt. No 3 knockdown rule. And if someone is losing really bad i will intervene and stop the fight hahah. In the left corner Jason with the Z1R, In the right corner... A newcomer with the puny TH900. Hmm interesting bout. 

 

[TSAVJason]

Them words here in NJ are some fighting words right there lol. I anticipate no hitting below the belt. No 3 knockdown rule. And if someone is losing really bad i will intervene and stop the fight hahah. In the left corner Jason with the Z1R, In the right corner... A newcomer with the puny TH900. Hmm interesting bout. 

Hahahaha damn! Easy on that, I'm not trying to get all up in the guys koolaide

 

[Kyle 491]

Now now now, don't get all up in a tizzy just because someone disagrees with you. In fact the Z1R does have significant bass lift by comparison to many headphones. I've said that since the launch here in the US. With that said it's not as dominant as the 900 by a pretty sizable difference. Clearly your listening preference is different than mine .....so don't take my opinion as a personal attack. I never make comments in that way.

 
You've said little of substance, aside from your assertion that the Z1R bass is not as dominant as the TH900 bass "by a pretty sizable difference", whats your reasoning or evidence for this?. There's no need to spare my feelings, I didn't join this thread posting sentiments that are clearly not shared by the majority of the posters expecting everyone to agree with me.  However, I'd like the Z1R fans to challenge my assertions with a little more substance, rather than the "self-evident truths" being bandied around the Z1R's alleged superiority in bass and other aspects of sound quality.

 

[Sonic Defender]

   
The Sony Z1R is a bass-dominant headphone also, please don't pretend otherwise. Also, being a bassist doesn't mean that you aren't deaf. Don't take this for an insult, I like a lively debate and am not averse to being proven wrong, but shallow appeals to authority aren't going to win you this argument so easily. TH900 sub-bass is audibly and measurably cleaner, tighter and has more impact. It is more amenable to EQ than the Z1R if you find it too bass-heavy too, or bass-light.

You seem rather inclined to assume the rightness of your preferences. Use your illusions as they say, but insulting other people simply to justify your gear choice is not really part of being a good member of a community. You can enter into a discussion with us and have differing opinions without being condescending and frankly insulting. And this is refernece to everything you said, not specifically what I quoted. And yes, I agree, the Z1R is indeed a bass-dominat headphone which I love about it. I personally find classical music rather boring so the lack of performance there with the Z1R has no impact on me.