[cloud_c]

On a bass note, I've been listening to organ music for the last couple hours in audio bliss.
I personally have 20Hz at +16db and the Z1R is handling it quite well with bass detail.
In particular, on the CD Johann Sebastian Bach; E. Power Biggs, tracks 1 and 3 stood out as great.
Track 1 has a wonderful play on notes across the range from sub-bass to treble.
To my ears, the volume of the notes matches the graphic analyzer that I have going at the same time.
Track 3 has a continuous sub bass note that plays for 1minute and 6 seconds(roughly).
It is a telling test of the bass capacity of any earphone.
By comparison on the SZ2K, I have 20Hz up 12db... hmm I thought it was more, but I guess that is because the whole fr range is a mess and 864Hz is -9db.
This would mean that if one can accept the fr of a stock SZ2K that the sub bass would have more presence/power, but I can't accept any headphone at stock performance.
Clearly the Z1R is not the king of sub bass, but it is good.
I don't have a TH900 to compare to, but the fr range didn't appeal.
It is quite possible that the TH900 has a stronger sub-bass presence stock.
If one compares the fr graphs it is easy to see that the TH900 has a big bass peak at 40Hz.
The thing is, it drops off 3db by 20Hz whereas the Z1R drops 1Hz from its peak at 50Hz down to 20Hz.
This doesn't sound like a lot, but if you look at the curve it is easy to see that the Z1R is practically a straight line from 50 to 20 whereas the TH900mk2 is a curve down that is only accelerating downward at 20Hz.
That is a big deal to me. The SZ2K is flat in the sub bass too and down many db more than it should be.
Personally I find it too bad that the Z1R drops 3db in its response from 100 to 70Hz, but oh well, whatever, its sub-bass ability details that I'm looking for.
With literally two times the surface area of a 50mm driver, it is no surprise that the Z1R can hit the low notes.
Now if I could get them permanently tuned with a +16db boost at 20Hz with a 12db slope I would be in heaven from any device, not just my computer.

 

[TSAVJason]

I'm not interested in your level of expertise, alleged or otherwise, only your reasoning for your claims regarding the TH900/Z1R bass. Months before the Z1R had measurements posted by several sites, I heard the Z1R bass as lacking the tightness, cleanliness and impact expected in sub-bass regions from a closed flagship headphone priced over £1500. Since then, measurements posted have corroborated my view on the Z1R bass. I have offered examples songs where this is clearly audible to me in my earlier post.

Still waiting to read a reasoned counter to my assertions.

Well now isn't that dandy. Being that the consensus is contrary to your awesome opinion what do you have that supports your antagonistic claim.. There is no measurement of sloppy bass in the Z1R as you say and I've never seen anything to support the 900 being better at sub-bass other than opinion. I support your need to like the 900 but I don't support your verbal behavior. You haven't provided any material that demonstrates your issue nor have you offered up your listening level. As far as I know your material or system may be in total disarray

 

[TSAVJason]

My expertise? I have a Costco membership, take THAT Jason *drops the mic* 

Hahaha good one

 

[Sonic Defender]

I think he has decided to cut his losses and get out. Shame, now I suspect there will be posts in the TH900 thread about how the Z1R owners are all babies and can't take the constructive criticism offered. I like constructive conversation, I just don't like somebody being condescending toward me when they do differ in opinion. 

 

[ross1974]

I think he has decided to cut his losses and get out. Shame, now I suspect there will be posts in the TH900 thread about how the Z1R owners are all babies and can't take the constructive criticism offered. I like constructive conversation, I just don't like somebody being condescending toward me when they do differ in opinion. 

508 pages and we forgot to notice the messy bass.

 

[Sonic Defender]

508 pages and we forgot to notice the messy bass.

Well if you remember, we are all deaf so that isn't a surprise.

.

 

[zolkis]

I think the Z1R is too fresh for strong statements. It's good the first impressions are overwhelmingly positive. Time and new products will put things in context anyway.
However, past context is valuable too, so if someone says the cheaper TH900 plays at least in the same league at least in the bass, that's a valuable input for prospective buyers.
I for one won't order the Z1R before directly comparing it with the TH900, even though the first impression of the Z1R was good.
 
Let's not turn the discussion to analogies with cars, though .

 

[TSAVJason]

Well if you remember, we are all deaf so that isn't a surprise. .

Anyone that disagrees with him has been identified as their ears just being painted on. We'll just have to admit we'll never be good listeners and people like me that are trained to hear and identify issues will never be able to provide a relative impression because I have no expertise.

 

[BunnyNamedCraig]

Anyone that disagrees with him has been identified as their ears just being painted on. We'll just have to admit we'll never be good listeners and people like me that are trained to hear and identify issues will never be able to provide a relative impression because I have no expertise.

Haha

 

[drbobbybones]

  When you can't afford the Nissan Gtr... And you start to bad mouth it. All because you think you're Nissan 370z is the better car because you own it. So you make you're mind believe it's a reality. 

 
2015 GT-R Black Edition owner here.  I'm used to people talking about how it's a videogame car and it has no driving feel or emotion, mostly because of things that they have read on the internet.  I've had a few people drive my car and then instantly their tune changes.  No way does my 545 HP car lack in feel or emotion.  It can be docile like a house cat or as aggressive as a tiger, depending on how you drive it. 
 
@Kyle 491, you are entitled to your own opinion on the Z1R, as we are as well.  I love the sound signature of the Z1R.  When paired with the right source, I think the sound is impactful, detailed, and emotive.  The TH900 are prettier, but I always thought they sounded much worse than they looked.  Great sub-bass and bass texture, but awful mids and sometimes painful treble. 
 
To each their own.  I'll take my GT-R, and you can have your Hellcat.  Just because you (and others) love your Hellcat does not mean that I (and others) can't love our GT-Rs. 

 

[Kukua]

I'm not interested in your level of expertise, alleged or otherwise, only your reasoning for your claims regarding the TH900/Z1R bass. Months before the Z1R had measurements posted by several sites, I heard the Z1R bass as lacking the tightness, cleanliness and impact expected in sub-bass regions from a closed flagship headphone priced over £1500. Since then, measurements posted have corroborated my view on the Z1R bass. I have offered examples songs where this is clearly audible to me in my earlier post.

Still waiting to read a reasoned counter to my assertions.

smiles....here come the English..breath of fresh air mate

 

[fullranger]

Ooh, the Black Edition. Did it need to get any better? Enjoy that ride, brother/sister!
I hope that the other thread distraction goes to Farcebook, where that kind of wailing is the norm.

 

[drbobbybones]

Ooh, the Black Edition. Did it need to get any better? Enjoy that ride, brother/sister!
I hope that the other thread distraction goes to Farcebook, where that kind of wailing is the norm.

 
Thanks!  It's actually my second one.  I had a 2012 GT-R Black Edition that I traded in for the 2015.  The 2012 drove more like a race car, but the 2015 is much more livable day to day.  Not sure if I'm gonna get one of the 2018's or move on to a Tesla P100D.  Hard to resist a zero to sixty in 2.27 seconds

 
Anyway, the Z1R to me is kind of like the GT-R.  Both the Z1R and the GT-R have healthy doses of technical ability mixed with fun.  So much of it is painstakingly made by hand, and only by very senior trained technicians.  Tsunemi Ooyama built my engine by hand, and his signature is on my engine block.  I wish the Z1R did something similar...

 

[beowulf]

Ah interesting night. I found myself comparing the Z1R to some alternatives (like our bio-cellulose friend MDR-CD3000) and was just thinking "Man, that's some punchy, strong bass but it's amazing how it is tight and doesn't bleed over the high frequencies in any way, all detail is there" - then I get here and see everything is on fire regarding bass quality.

 
I don't notice any sub-bass issues myself... just listened to Why So Serious on the Dark Knight OST and it's one of the nicest sub-bass presentations I've heard, definitely something that A LOT of cans cannot reproduce with such visceral impact, at least not without making a woolly muddy mess of much of the rest. And I'm a big fan of bright, grainy bio-cellulose signatures, so I'm used to a leaner body, which can be nice sometimes too, but not always.
 
For some tracks/albums you simply want the bass impact that the Z1R gets you, and it's not easy to have it in quality (it's easy in quantity tho). It's definitely a bass-dominant headphone, something that is extremely obvious if you A/B compare it to something like the HD800 or other treble cannons like the 900 or CD3K. Still, to my ears all the detail, separation and positioning are there, layering is perfect, but a direct comparison will make you initially feel as if there's a warm bassy veil over the whole signature. This opinion is premature and after some time with the cans you realize it's quite the opposite.
 
You can EQ the brightness and grain into the Z1R (anyone with the iDSD Micro BL knows it's as simple as flipping a switch), but it's not really possible to EQ that tight, quality visceral bass into models that simply cannot present it.
Each to his own. Kyle agrees with Nomax and his famous early first impression, and it should be fine to us. Or, as I usually put it when my girlfriend says that lobster and shrimp are disgusting... "Cool...MORE FOR ME!"

 

[Sarnia]

smiles....here come the English..breath of fresh air mate

 
The way he came across was about the exact opposite of a typical English person, if there is such a thing. Rude, offensive, condescending and in your face isn't the normal English style I'm glad to say.