[cladane]

Noticeably in EU the Verto from Audiovalve is a better setting than the WEE.

 

[lojay]

@loljay : did you think 445 smoother than wa5 but leaner ?

 
I don't know what you mean by "smooth" and what headphone you are driving. If you mean rolled-off highs, it has more treble emphasis and is leaner, so no. WA5 is very lush. If you mean free of grain, yes I think it is smoother than the WA5 but does not completely remove the treble grain and treble glare with the HD800. I think you need a mod to get rid of that. The SR009 on the 4-45 is very smooth. That said, the 4-45 is more sophisticated and hifi sounding than the WA5. It sounds "right". WA5 even at its best sounds more sugar coated and coloured.

  I'm wondering if the Woo Wee will work with the 445.  An article in Inner Fidelity included this admonition:
Does anyone know if the 445 is a bridged/balanced amp?

 
I'm asking Craig. I think the 445 has balanced XLR outputs but I do not know if the speaker binding posts are balanced or whether the negatives have signal.

   
Very very interesting review, for 2 reasons:
 
1 - it gives me another reason to be happy to have ordered a EC 4-45 

   (can you tell which Tubes you are unsing with your 4-45 ?)
 
2 - It show that the Woo WEE ins't in fact a "poor man" Static solution !  I was always under the impression that a Speaker amp + a Woo WEE was a low cost/low perf solution compared to dedicated Electrostatic headphone Amp.  But... it seems that the WooWEE can be part of a TOL Stax solution.
 
--> Can you confirm that the EC4-45 + Woo WEE + the SR009  can be on par, SQ wise, with for example, a BHSE + the SR009 ?

 
1. I'm using vintage globe 45s and 6C45Pi as drivers. I think the 6C45Pi gives a cleaner more accurate sound than the WE 417A, which I also use when I'm tired of all the detail. It sounds more recessed in the upper mid-range and some may think it tames the HD800 even more. I like the 6C45Pi with the SR009 more for sure though.
 
2. I still think it is a poor man's solution but I have not heard the BHSE. I would not bet on using the WEE with the SR009 forever or as a TOTL solution. For a temporary solution before I get the BHSE (I'm in the 4th batch), this is very enjoyable. In fact for many genres of music, especially well recorded hifi music such as acoustic and jazz the SR009 + 4-45 is better to me than the HD800 + 4-45. The HD800 is better for modern music that are more complicated in the mix such as hiphop and electronica.
 
You might want to look into other Stax energisers as well. They might have better transformers than the Woo WEE.

 

[Rico613]

   
2 - It show that the Woo WEE ins't in fact a "poor man" Static solution !  I was always under the impression that a Speaker amp + a Woo WEE was a low cost/low perf solution compared to dedicated Electrostatic headphone Amp.  But... it seems that the WooWEE can be part of a TOL Stax solution.
 
--> Can you confirm that the EC4-45 + Woo WEE + the SR009  can be on par, SQ wise, with for example, a BHSE + the SR009 ?
 

 
Here is an interesting review of Wee, Electra, and Stax amps.  I thinking about  ordering an Electra but may want to use the Wee in the meantime.  
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/681814/amplifiers-shootout-for-stax-009-eddie-current-electra-audiovalve-rkv-wooaudio-wee-stax-srm727-srm007t2

 

[Hun7er]

@loljay : by smooth I was speaking about the lacks of hardness in the sound.
Did you keep both the WA5 and 445.
 
You might try an Eddie Current Balancing Act, it is the smoothest amp I never heard. Based on review it is more organic and thicker than the 445. 

 

[lojay]

  @loljay : by smooth I was speaking about the lacks of hardness in the sound.

 
I think I know what you mean. That's what I call "free of grain" but I do not know if there is a better way of describing it. 
 
I think in the DAC will be very important as well to give you a smooth and organic sound. 

 

[lojay]

Noticeably in EU the Verto from Audiovalve is a better setting than the WEE.

 
Might try it after I sell the WEE, but to be honest the self-proclaimed ability to drive anything perfectly is scary and to me unlikely to be received without some skepticism. I think KG was quite skeptical of the Verto too.
 

   
Here is an interesting review of Wee, Electra, and Stax amps.  I thinking about  ordering an Electra but may want to use the Wee in the meantime.  
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/681814/amplifiers-shootout-for-stax-009-eddie-current-electra-audiovalve-rkv-wooaudio-wee-stax-srm727-srm007t2

 
I've read that. The French guys did a wonderfully scientific job. I completely agree with their assessment of the SRM 007TA. It is one crappy amp. Of course, ones ears may be different from another's so a rating system based on fixed criteria may not be the best communicator of the tester's preferences and the overall balance of an amp. 
 

  @loljay : by smooth I was speaking about the lacks of hardness in the sound.
Did you keep both the WA5 and 445.
 
You might try an Eddie Current Balancing Act, it is the smoothest amp I never heard. Based on review it is more organic and thicker than the 445. 

 
I'm happy with the 4-45. I have no practical use for the BA because HD800 is not my favourite headphone but the SR009 and HE6 are (tied), and they are best driven by the 4-45 and WA5 respectively. I consider myself very lucky already! 

 

[Hun7er]

@loljay : perfectly understandle if you using an HE6. BA can lacks some juice to driver it.
I'm agree about the DAC for the smoothness of the sound, not forget the transport that can reduce the last glaring.
 
If you plan to sell you pair of WE417a I'm buyer. Did you have try the JPS Abyss ?

 

[cladane]

Might try it after I sell the WEE, but to be honest the self-proclaimed ability to drive anything perfectly is scary and to me unlikely to be received without some skepticism. I think KG was quite skeptical of the Verto too.

Yes, for sure, better to try it. Not much better but a little better.
The point also is that the Verto is CE standard which the WEE is not, thus can't officialy be supported here (customer service for ex).

 

[eric65]

   
Might try it after I sell the WEE, but to be honest the self-proclaimed ability to drive anything perfectly is scary and to me unlikely to be received without some skepticism. I think KG was quite skeptical of the Verto too.
 
 
I've read that. The French guys did a wonderfully scientific job. I completely agree with their assessment of the SRM 007TA. It is one crappy amp. Of course, ones ears may be different from another's so a rating system based on fixed criteria may not be the best communicator of the tester's preferences and the overall balance of an amp. 
 
 
I'm happy with the 4-45. I have no practical use for the BA because HD800 is not my favourite headphone but the SR009 and HE6 are (tied), and they are best driven by the 4-45 and WA5 respectively. I consider myself very lucky already! 

 
Hello,
 
KG says anything about the Verto; He never listened to ... 
 
Friendly advice, read the Verto thread (on HCFR) before buying a Verto (18 pages).
http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/casques-haute-fidelite/verto-le-boitier-audiovalve-pour-casques-stax-t30052030.html
 
Another friendly advice : don't use the Verto with the 445 amp, you may not have enough gain (see also :  http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post178257879.html#p178257879)
 
Even if Wee transformers are inherently worse than the Verto, the Wee transformers have more gain than Verto (ratio of amplification voltage of the Wee transformers is 1:50 ; ratio of amplification voltage of the Verto transformers is 1:14 (with "reverse terminal mode" (8 Ohm) in input (with adapter Jack--> SPK)) or 1: 5.9 (with input "jack mode").
 
The output terminal 8 Ohm (3 Watt) of the 445 amp will give an output voltage of only 5 Volts (--> 250 Volts (5 Volts x 50) with the Wee; and only 70 volts (5 Volts x 14) or 30 Volts (5 Volts x 6) with the Verto depending on the input used (reverse terminal or Jack). It must have at least 250 volts in output voltage in output of the Wee box (or Verto box) to have a sufficient gain.
 
(NB: for reminder, the amplifier AudioValve RKV-II, even if it give only 3 Watt (at 200 Ohm), give in output 80 Volts RMS (at 2000 Ohm) (in the output jack of the RKV amp, in OTL mode) and therefore produces 80 Volt x 5.9 = 470 volts RMS in output of the Stax connector of the Verto box, which is more than enough with a Stax headphone of sensitivity of 101 dB / 100 Volt RMS at 1 KHz). 

 

[lojay]

  @loljay : perfectly understandle if you using an HE6. BA can lacks some juice to driver it.
I'm agree about the DAC for the smoothness of the sound, not forget the transport that can reduce the last glaring.
 
If you plan to sell you pair of WE417a I'm buyer. Did you have try the JPS Abyss ?

 
Nope, I haven't even heard the Abyss yet but I do not have plans to buy it yet. It is too bulky for my small room (and I have three headphones already!)
 
My pair of WE 417A is used not NOS. I was looking on eBay for an NOS pair but gave up after I decided I like the 6C45Pi much better. Sometimes the WE brand sells more than the quality of the tubes.

 

[Hun7er]

Don't matter if your WE417A are used Shoot me a PM if you want to sell them
 
Concerning the Woo WEE I tried it with WA5 and 2A3MKIV and combinaison wasn't good as KGSSHV. 
The KGSSHV are smoother on the entire frequency and less bright.

 

[lojay]

  I'm wondering if the Woo Wee will work with the 445.  An article in Inner Fidelity included this admonition:
 
 
Does anyone know if the 445 is a bridged/balanced amp?

 
Craig confirmed that the outputs are balanced, but the negative wires can be grounded to make it single ended. I will try that tomorrow when I get back to my rig in office.

 

[cladane]

   
Hello,
 
KG says anything on the Verto; He never listened to ... 
 
Friendly advice, read the Verto thread (on HCFR) before buying a Verto (18 pages).
http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/casques-haute-fidelite/verto-le-boitier-audiovalve-pour-casques-stax-t30052030.html
 
Another friendly advice : don't use the Verto with the 445 amp, you may not have enough gain (see also :  http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post178257879.html#p178257879)
Even if Wee transformers are inherently worse than the Verto, the Wee transformers has more gain than Verto (ratio of amplification voltage of the Wee transformers is 1:50 ; ratio of amplification voltage of the Verto transformers is 1:14 (with reverse terminal mode (8 Ohm) enter (with adapter )) or 1: 5.9 (with Jack mode enter).

The output terminal 8 Ohm (3 Watt) of the 445 amp will not give an output voltage of only 5 Volts (--> 250 Volts (5 Volts x 50) with the Wee; and only 70 volts (5 Volts x 14) or 30 Volts (5 Volts x 6) with the Verto depending on the input used (reverse terminal or Jack). It must have at least 250 volts in output voltage of the Wee box (or Verto box) for proper gain. 

(NB: for the record, the amplifier AudioValve RKV-II, even if it output only 3 Watt (at 200 Ohm), output 80 Volts RMS (at 2000 Ohm) (in output jack, mode OTL) and therefore produces 80 Volt x 5.9 = 470 volts RMS output of Stax Verto, which is more than enough with a Stax headphone of sensitivity of 101 dB / 100 Volt RMS at 1 KHz. 

True that the Verto is a device originaly asked from Audiovalve customers and as such developped by Audiovalve thus explaining why it pairs so well with their stuff... But not only. Look at hybrid amps like the Pathos Aurium or why not EC MKIV ??

 

[bmichels]

   
 
 
1. I'm using vintage globe 45s and 6C45Pi as drivers. I think the 6C45Pi gives a cleaner more accurate sound than the WE 417A, which I also use when I'm tired of all the detail. It sounds more recessed in the upper mid-range and some may think it tames the HD800 even more. I like the 6C45Pi with the SR009 more for sure though.
 
2. I still think it is a poor man's solution but I have not heard the BHSE. I would not bet on using the WEE with the SR009 forever or as a TOTL solution. For a temporary solution before I get the BHSE (I'm in the 4th batch), this is very enjoyable. In fact for many genres of music, especially well recorded hifi music such as acoustic and jazz the SR009 + 4-45 is better to me than the HD800 + 4-45. The HD800 is better for modern music that are more complicated in the mix such as hiphop and electronica.
 
You might want to look into other Stax energisers as well. They might have better transformers than the Woo WEE.

 
Thank you for your replies.

 

[lojay]

Further update - did the Anax 2.0 mod to the HD800. The treble is much smoother, without a hint of the annoying glare (unless it exists in the recording itself). Starting to enjoy the HD800 + 445 combo a bit more than the SR009 + 445 combo.
 
Love it!
 
My final adjustment would be the EML 45 solid plates which are arriving this week.