[SeEnCreaTive]

Heh

They are niche players, even the best selling of them do not sell anywhere near the numbers of an iPod Classic even during the year it was discontinued. On top of that 160GB mechanical drives were much cheaper then than 256GB flash costs today, combine that with low volumes and you get massive mark up for those companies to keep profitable. So I am quite happy with the current situation of using cards really.

BTW if you are happy without top notch sound but large storage how about an iPod Touch Classic? I have a 128GB iPhone 6, could store all my music and I wouldn't come near filling it yet I still bought an iBasso DX90 horses for courses I guess.

I assume you mean iPod classic? Not touch?

Problem is that ipods aren't expansible. You'll be playing through the nose for a 128gig iPhone (I work selling phones, about $1100 if you want a 128 6 plus)

And the ipod Classic is disconiued, cost about $700 for a new one. Sound is the greatest from them, not much power, but they use a 30pin connector. Works as a line out to a good portable amp

 

[vrapan]

Heh



I assume you mean iPod classic? Not touch?

Problem is that ipods aren't expansible. You'll be playing through the nose for a 128gig iPhone (I work selling phones, about $1100 if you want a 128 6 plus)

And the ipod Classic is disconiued, cost about $700 for a new one. Sound is the greatest from them, not much power, but they use a 30pin connector. Works as a line out to a good portable amp

 
I get it, I just don't think what you are asking for can become a reality today. Maybe when 256GB flash costs a fraction of what it costs today then I am assuming someone will bother to put it in a player. As it stands you are looking for a niche product in a niche market, these kind of products either do not get made or when they get made they carry extortionate price tags.
 
Yes sorry I do not know where Touch came from.

 

[SeEnCreaTive]

I don't want to derail this thread onto other players but I'll just say that the FiiO X1 has barely greater storage capacity than my £33 Sansa Clip+ which works just fine with a 128GB micro SD card. The FiiO X1 therefore doesn't move the game on for me. It could have if it had two slots and lots of people said as much to FiiO.

Trouble is that 128GB micro SD cards are £90.

If you want a FiiO X5 with 256 GB it's £290 + £90 + £90 or £470. That's far too much!

Meanwhile 128GB SD cards are now a much more reasonable £30 so you save £120 straight away by using the bigger size cards. Plus you also have the option of 256GB and 512GB albeit at fairly eye-watering prices again.

This is why I advise Echobox to use full size SDXC cards. It's a far more attractive proposition for the customer and will really move the DAP game on. Then we need a version with less exotic electronics so that the rest of us can actually afford one.

I can see where you are coming from. And I totally agree with full sized slots.

As for exotic hardware, yes it is a niche product. But generelly the people who use that much space are people who need that hardware, and have lossless 20mb+ from some single files. You're not going to hear the difference between lossless and non-lossless on some "OK" or "average" hardware. So thngs with not crazy high quality hardware doesn't nessesarly need the space as some lossless could be in theory unnessesary. So companies keep the price down by only including space that people will realisticly use.

Idk about you but the 50,000+ ACC file capacity on my Classic is more then enough for me. I have as much music as I can as Apple lossless as I do have the hardware at home to really hear a difference. If I do run out of space, I'll take off some T-Swift or Circle Jerks or what ever else I have litterally never played a single time.

 

[SeEnCreaTive]

I get it, I just don't think what you are asking for can become a reality today. Maybe when 256GB flash costs a fraction of what it costs today then I am assuming someone will bother to put it in a player. As it stands you are looking for a niche product in a niche market, these kind of products either do not get made or when they get made they carry extortionate price tags.

Yes sorry I do not know where Touch came from.

Heh I'm not looking for more space, it was technobear

I have 60gigs free on my classic O.o if I had a portable amp I'd put more lossless music on there, but in stock form the Classic doesn't have the power nor sound quality to get the most out of lossless. Which is what you really would need the full 160 gigs for

 

[technobear]

They are niche players, even the best selling of them do not sell anywhere near the numbers of an iPod Classic even during the year it was discontinued.

No but they could sell in those numbers if they gave us what we want instead on keeping up the "more storage = price gouging" game.

On top of that 160GB mechanical drives were much cheaper then than 256GB flash costs today, combine that with low volumes and you get massive mark up for those companies to keep profitable. So I am quite happy with the current situation of using cards really.

So what's stopping Sony? They are not a small niche low volume company.

256GB of flash can be had right now in the form of 2 x 128GB SDXC cards for £60 in the UK.

The Sony A15 with 16GB costs £150 in the UK.

Add the two together and you have a 256GB player for £210.

Sony however want to offer us only 64GB (in the A17) for around £240 (or would if it were even available).

The problem here isn't lack of parts or price of parts. It's simple short-sighted greed and for that reason there will be no great Walkman renaissance. Shame. This might have helped rescue Sony.

As for the ZX2 , don't make me laugh. Most of the seriously wealthy people who would consider such a device have surely already bought an A&K. That market will mature very fast. The ZX1 was already too expensive for the mass market.

Sony, like many others, seems to be heading for the high-end in order to maintain its business as normal people run out of cash. Trouble is with everyone doing it, there aren't enough wealthy customers to keep them all going.

Then there is Sandisk. They had a winning formula with the Clip+. All they had to do was release a 16GB Clip+. Then a 32GB, 64GB, 128GB... They would be selling them as fast as they could make them. Instead they gave us the Clip Zip which nobody asked for and which is pants. They followed that with the Clip Sport which is also pants. The goal mouth couldn't be any wider and they missed it completely.

Apple seems to have abandoned the high capacity yet still affordable DAP market. Who is going to take their place? The company that does so will make a killing. Seems it won't be Sony or FiiO or iBasso or iRiver. Might it be Echobox?

 

[Savant]

I think two full size SD slots are pretty much mandatory for this new device. Otherwise what is its unique selling proposition?

The one thing that comes out of threads on Head-Fi concerning DAPs is that a healthy majority want MORE STORAGE.

The one thing you notice in the marketplace, even at the top end, is a lack of storage.

If this device had 256GB and two full size SDXC slots, it would OWN the market for several years while everyone else plays catch up.

Basically we're all looking for something to move the game on and it isn't this or that high-end DAC chip.

How many years now have I been able to buy a 160GB iPod Classic for £160? Five? Six? Maybe more.

And yet here we are in 2015 and far from being able to buy a 256GB player for £200, there aren't any on the market at any price - not even at $2500, you still have to shell out extra for the cards ***!!!

Come on DAP manufacturers! Up your game. We are waiting for LARGE STORAGE at real world prices. We are not waiting for high-end sound at eye-watering prices. I don't care if it only sounds as good as a Clip+ if it has 256GB of storage built in and costs £200.

I don't need a $450 player with 64GB - with or without slots. It's too much money for a personal portable player. Up the storage and cut the price.

Agreed on all counts!

 

[vrapan]

Heh I'm not looking for more space, it was technobear

I have 60gigs free on my classic O.o if I had a portable amp I'd put more lossless music on there, but in stock form the Classic doesn't have the power nor sound quality to get the most out of lossless. Which is what you really would need the full 160 gigs for

I knew I should never reply that late after having a full day working... again my apologies for quoting you yes it was technobear my replies were for, 

 

[vrapan]

No but they could sell in those numbers if they gave us what we want instead on keeping up the "more storage = price gouging" game.
So what's stopping Sony? They are not a small niche low volume company.

256GB of flash can be had right now in the form of 2 x 128GB SDXC cards for £60 in the UK.

The Sony A15 with 16GB costs £150 in the UK.

Add the two together and you have a 256GB player for £210.

Sony however want to offer us only 64GB (in the A17) for around £240 (or would if it were even available).

The problem here isn't lack of parts or price of parts. It's simple short-sighted greed and for that reason there will be no great Walkman renaissance. Shame. This might have helped rescue Sony.

As for the ZX2 , don't make me laugh. Most of the seriously wealthy people who would consider such a device have surely already bought an A&K. That market will mature very fast. The ZX1 was already too expensive for the mass market.

Sony, like many others, seems to be heading for the high-end in order to maintain its business as normal people run out of cash. Trouble is with everyone doing it, there aren't enough wealthy customers to keep them all going.

Then there is Sandisk. They had a winning formula with the Clip+. All they had to do was release a 16GB Clip+. Then a 32GB, 64GB, 128GB... They would be selling them as fast as they could make them. Instead they gave us the Clip Zip which nobody asked for and which is pants. They followed that with the Clip Sport which is also pants. The goal mouth couldn't be any wider and they missed it completely.

Apple seems to have abandoned the high capacity yet still affordable DAP market. Who is going to take their place? The company that does so will make a killing. Seems it won't be Sony or FiiO or iBasso or iRiver. Might it be Echobox?

 
I am not suggesting that it is not possible just that the market is not there for it. Even if Sony wanted to do what you are suggesting (btw they are already losing money hand over fist in most of their divisions so doubt they would be willing to gamble with a market that is seemingly dead) what makes you think that there are enough people that are willing to part with the convenience of one device, good interface, fast paced improvements? The vast majority of people seem to have settled for MP3/AACs and some sort of streaming service through their smartphones, so no need for 128GB let alone 256GB of storage for music. Smartphones move so fast that they will only make the case for high capacity dedicated DAPs even harder, more storage better SQ. Exactly as they have for low end cameras, handheld gaming consoles,portable video players and so on...
 
Somehow I very much doubt that echobox will break that particular mould. For my part I am happy that they are pushing the streaming case with some internal storage for half the price of the ZX2. I will be even happier if SQ for IEMs pushes past what I get from my iPhone, in the end for me with streaming the importance of internal storage/cards diminishes dramatically anyway.

 

[technobear]

I'm going to shut up now. I think I've rattled enough cages for one day

Good night!

 

[SeEnCreaTive]

No but they could sell in those numbers if they gave us what we want instead on keeping up the "more storage = price gouging" game.
So what's stopping Sony? They are not a small niche low volume company.

256GB of flash can be had right now in the form of 2 x 128GB SDXC cards for £60 in the UK.

The Sony A15 with 16GB costs £150 in the UK.

Add the two together and you have a 256GB player for £210.

Sony however want to offer us only 64GB (in the A17) for around £240 (or would if it were even available).

The problem here isn't lack of parts or price of parts. It's simple short-sighted greed and for that reason there will be no great Walkman renaissance. Shame. This might have helped rescue Sony.

As for the ZX2 , don't make me laugh

Apple seems to have abandoned the high capacity yet still affordable DAP market. Who is going to take their place? The company that does so will make a killing. Seems it won't be Sony or FiiO or iBasso or iRiver. Might it be Echobox?

We'll see, DAPs went out of fashion when do-all smart phones came about. Let's hope that this year will be the year of the DAP comeback

 

[SeEnCreaTive]

I'm going to shut up now. I think I've rattled enough cages for one day

Good night!

Haha alright, we should probably let the thread get back on topic xD

 

[Gilly87]

@zzffnn I asked them to test for a whole list of specs a few pages back and they are going to get back to me after the weekend.

Good catch, tomscy2000. I remember the output impedance issue of that TPA chip as well. Its 10 ohm of output impedance may interact with many BA IEMs.

Gilly87, please kindly ask your engineers - what is the output impedance of the Echobox? Thanks!

Not a huge deal breaker for me even if OI is 10 ohms (as I only have one pair of BA CIEMs which I use portably and Echobox won't be in my portable rig due to its thickness), as long as I can get 2 full sized SD slots.

 

[Gilly87]

Re:storage you guys are relentless!

We are doing the R&D; we are going to add as much potential for external memory as we possibly can without taking the cost up another $50 or compromising the sound. Don't worry so much!!!

I can say the one thing we won't be doing is replacing the iPod classic. We want to make storage accessible, but our player is emphasizing streaming, versatility, and audio quality above all.

 

[Mython]

Touch crowd, huh? 

 

[Gilly87]

Heheh. Well I made the thread to take feedback so I do appreciate it! Nothing wrong with wanting to be heard; that's what this is all about.

But we done heard already!

Any ideas other than storage?

Touch crowd, huh?