[drdiem]

   

• Your DAC is more than reasonable at this stage; however read below
• A good valve amp will fill in the warmth to varying degree depending upon amp, tubes, etc.
• Midrange has never been the HD800's forte. Some HD800s users resort to a resistor ladder DAC, i.e. Metrum, AGD M7, to improve midrange, e.g. vocals.
• The M-Stage is a good match for the HD800 in that it's a warm sounding amp which has sufficient power for the HD800 - so that the HD800 does not sound limpish, lean, edgy, nasty. Otherwise, in the overall scheme of things, the M-Stage is pretty craptastic. I owned the M-Stage many years ago.
• The good valve amps will sound more involving, more spacious, more layered. more dynamic, less compressed in terms of huge and small volume changes, than the M-Stage (and actually the majority of solid-state amps). Good valve amps have the ability to do these instantaneous swings in small volume changes which the M-Stage cannot do. Really digging into the music. The HD800 will respond to this.
• The HD800 is always going to sound like an HD800, on the dry side, analytical; however
• You can resort to something syrupy and lush like a Leben, WA2, Cary amp. But honestly, you are better off with an LCD-2 or HE-500 because amps like that take away too much from the inherent strengths of the HD800.
• Best to play to the HD800s strengths and do what we can to take off the edge and add some warmth; and live with that. Just one philosophy. I think I've mentioned this before, but I cringe when I see people put over a hundred pounds of supercharger, intercooler, piping over the front wheels of an FR-S/BRZ. Sort of defeats the point of the car.

 
Purrin you're a god-damned star! To the point, no-bull advice of the sort that's so hard to find. Thank you so much! 

 

[Wildcatsare1]

^^^ Now Purrin we need to take a little of that reviewing time of yours in the HE560 Thread on amp, DAC, wiring options, Marv, give we HiFiMan Heads a little of your unique love !

 

[purrin]

  I'm curious if there is a budget DAC that pairs well with the HD 800's like the Vali does as an amp.
 
Basically I'm asking if there is a "Vali-like" DAC in terms of price and performance.
 
I know I won't get the most out of the senns but I would like to know if there is such a DAC.
 
Thanks for any suggestions. 

 
Wyrd + Modi $200. Wyrd is there to provide better power to Modi since Modi sucks USB for power which isn't ideal and leads to all sorts of different sounds. My experience with Modi was that it sounded lean and fuzzy. Wyrd's power and data line reclocking was just the trick for Modi.
 
Loki $150 (possibly less with B stock since Schiit factory had water damage from broken sprinkler.) DSD DAC only, but I use JRiver MC19 which can convert PCM to DSD in real-time and feed DoP directly to Loki. Loki is a bit warmer sounding but with softened attacks compared to above combination. Wyrd does not seem to do as much on Loki than on Modi.

 

[preproman]

IMO different headphones will be more dependent on AMP or DAC differently. I find my HE6 highly dependent on the amp, while my HD800 is more DAC dependent, and my LCD3 isn't as sensitive to either for amp or dac. For HD800 you should gain most by upgrading your DAC. Depending on your budget there would be many choices.

 
 
I know you did the IMO - I don't that's correct to recommend a beginner.   The amp / HD800 paring is definitely more important.  Yeah - I see that's your opinion.  This is just mine I guess.

 

[purrin]

   
Purrin you're a god-damned star! To the point, no-bull advice of the sort that's so hard to find. Thank you so much! 

 
Welcome, but you are giving me way too much credit. I've read your posts. You know that you are doing.
 

^^^ Now Purrin we need to take a little of that reviewing time of yours in the HE560 Thread on amp, DAC, wiring options, Marv, give we HiFiMan Heads a little of your unique love !

 
I can handle only so much potential train-wreck HF thread at once since I'm already knee deep in the PM-1 thread (the regular non-impressions). The HE-560 thread has some people who know what they are doing; and the HE-560 is not nearly as difficult as the HD800 to deal with, especially with the Focus-A (pre-production?) pads.

 

[Wildcatsare1]

Welcome, but you are giving me way too much credit. I've read your posts. You know that you are doing.


I can handle only so much potential train-wreck HF thread at once since I'm already knee deep in the PM-1 thread (the regular non-impressions). The HE-560 thread has some people who know what they are doing; and the HE-560 is not nearly as difficult as the HD800 to deal with, especially with the Focus-A (pre-production?) pads.

that
Purrin, thanks.....my Guess is a good DAC, is a good DAC, for either HD800 or HE560's, looking at the Gungnir, love the dynamics, it as the original promise of digital. Thought I could live without the 800, but after speaking to Matt, eventually I must have one.

 

[MattTCG]

that
Purrin, thanks.....my Guess is a good DAC, is a good DAC, for either HD800 or HE560's, looking at the Gungnir, love the dynamics, it as the original promise of digital. Thought I could live without the 800, but after speaking to Matt, eventually I must have one.

 
Uh oh...converted another one. 

 

[Zoom25]

  I'm curious if there is a budget DAC that pairs well with the HD 800's like the Vali does as an amp.
 
Basically I'm asking if there is a "Vali-like" DAC in terms of price and performance.
 
I know I won't get the most out of the senns but I would like to know if there is such a DAC.
 
Thanks for any suggestions. 

Call Emotiva. Ask for a used DC-1. Goes for $399. Comes with full warranty. It seriously has end game capabilities - minus DSD.

 

[Sorrodje]

It is my belief that a DAC has less effect on the sound one hears than the amp (after all the headphone circuit is formed with the amp - the DAC is further removed along the chain) so my thinking is that so long as the DAC is reasonable (I've an HRT microStreamer) one isn't going to make a huge difference to the sound by changing it.  
Ian

 
Hi Ian.
 
As I wrote you in our MPs : When I pruchased my HD800 on year ago , i had the HRT mS. Great Little DAC/AMP ; I enjoyed it a lot with my previous headphones but... IMO the combo with HD800 is awful. The mS is wayyy too bright and agressive for HD800.  You should really consider another dac before selling your HD800 for another headphone IMO . Try an old but cheap used dacmagic or a modi which is Higly praised here or even a hifimediy which is not a so great dac but is more enjoyable with the HD800 than the HRT mS . I experienced dacmagic, Hifimediy myself and the result is far from perfect but far more bearable than Microstreamer/HD800 combo. 
 
I thought as you do that the DAC is not so important. With the HD800 i owned or tried HRT mS, Hifimediy, Dacmagic , Rega DAC, HEGEL HD10, TEAC UD501, Audio GD Ref5 , Metrum Octave , Auralic Ark Mx+ , totaldac D1 dual and some others . The DAC does make a difference IMO . I don't know if it makes more or less difference than amp but it really does. 

 

[drdiem]

   
Hi Ian.
 
As I wrote you in our MPs : When I pruchased my HD800 on year ago , i had the HRT mS. Great Little DAC/AMP ; I enjoyed it a lot with my previous headphones but... IMO the combo with HD800 is awful. The mS is wayyy too bright and agressive for HD800.  You should really consider another dac before selling your HD800 for another headphone IMO . Try an old but cheap used dacmagic or a modi which is Higly praised here or even a hifimediy which is not a so great dac but is more enjoyable with the HD800 than the HRT mS . I experienced dacmagic , Hifimediy myself and the reult is fat form perfect but far more bearable than Microstreamer/HD800 combo. 
 
I thought as you do that the DAC is not so important. With the HD800 i owned or tried HRT mS, Hifimediy, Dacmagic , Rega DAC, HEGEL HD10, TEAC UD501, Audio GD Ref5 , Metrum Octave , Auralic Ark Mx+ , totaldac D1 dual and some others . The DAC does make a difference IMO . I don't know if it makes more or less difference than amp but it really does. 

 
Hi Sorrodje,
 
So you own what my research says is _the_ midrange HD800 combination - the Metrum Octave and DNA Sonnett. Tell me, what are your impressions of the mids from the HD800 with this combination compared to other DAC/amp combos? Are the mids noticeably more forward than with lesser equipment? Do they balance out better with the treble?
 
The decision I'm trying to make you see is whether I stick with the HD800 and improve the mids through DAC/amp, or give up on the HD800 as just not being adequately warm and involving for my taste and getting a different headphone.
 
Thanks for any impressions you might have,
 
Ian

 

[Sorrodje]

   
Hi Sorrodje,
 
So you own what my research says is _the_ midrange HD800 combination - the Metrum Octave and DNA Sonnett. Tell me, what are your impressions of the mids from the HD800 with this combination compared to other DAC/amp combos? Are the mids noticeably more forward than with lesser equipment? Do they balance out better with the treble?
 
The decision I'm trying to make you see is whether I stick with the HD800 and improve the mids through DAC/amp, or give up on the HD800 as just not being adequately warm and involving for my taste and getting a different headphone.
 
Thanks for any impressions you might have,
 
Ian

 
I think I will follow Purrin's footsteps here. I don"t think the HD800 is the best headphone for gorgeous mids. the HD650/600 or Audeze is the way to go for everyone looks for this kind of coloration.
 
I differ form him for the Metrum. I don't think the metrum is king for mids.  this dac sounds full , bottomed , detailed and somewhat "real" without any ounce of "digittus" . maybe a slight bit too laidback for my tastes but IMO , it doesn't bring up the mids. My previous Rega dac was more "mids happy" with a lovely coloration , very good and involving combo with the HD800 despite the fact the rega is obviously not in the same league than the Metrum Octave . Rega dac has what we call in France this "english sound" refined, smooth with gorgeous mids.
 
It 's hard for me to qualify my own rig. The sonett is not very coloured to my ears . it brings something special for dynamics , low level information ( think background of the soundstage and "feeling" of the studio or the concert hall) and sounsstage homogeneity at every volume level. The sound personality comes mostly of the Metrum octave . This dac is IMO perfectly oriented to modern musics I listen to : Electronic music, contemporary jazz,  well recorded Indie Music . the metrum is impactful , with great bass , overally very real tone with a perfect reproduction of drums & other percussions. In my experience , the metrum is not too forgiving and bad recorded/mastered sound bad. but the slightly laid back nature allow us to listen to everything without real displeasure.
 
For the mids, the fact is I listen a lot of vocal music since I had the HD800. Another fact is that since I have the Metrum & sonett, I don't complain about excessive sibilance anymore ( with HD800... with the T1 it's another story 

) and mids are perfect for my tastes. but I'm sensitive to 2/3 khz area and I dislike headphones with boosted 2-3 khz range.
 
That been said , this combo matches perfectly my musical tastes and I listen hours of music each day without avoiding the half of my music library which would be unlistenable with an inappropriate HD800 combo.   Everyone here should understand what i'm talking about

 

 

[Sorrodje]

.

 

[purrin]

Just to clarify on the Metrum. No, it isn't a mid-centric DAC in that emphasizes the mids. (I'm not sure I would like such a DAC.) But what it does have is a satisfying timbre which renders voices most naturally and pleasantly. People talk about digititus with DACs, and often this most directly relates to the treble. But a huge aspect for me is also how digititus affects voices, especially the harmonics of overtones of such. We are probably most sensitive to how voices are rendered more than anything else, and for good reason.
 
HD800 mids with resolving amp from Metrum > HD800 mids with resolving amp from a hypothetical $799 Chinese SABRE DAC (or almost any SABRE DAC.)
 
@Sorrodje: all the things you describe about the Sonnett 2 are even further realized with the Stratus. I couldn't go back to Sonnett after hearing Stratus.

 

[Sorrodje]

   
@Sorrodje: all the things you describe about the Sonnett 2 are even further realized with the Stratus. I couldn't go back to Sonnett after hearing Stratus.

 
 
Shut up .. or give me your wallet

.
 
Now i know what is my upgrade but i'll consider it in a few years. For now, I'm done with my HD800 rig. It's time to discover seriously other headphones . I've the T1 currently and I'm making my review for the french website I write for before selling it. I'll consider HE-500 and/or HD650 next.
 
 
PS : I see what you mean with mids/trebles & vocals and their overtones. indeed, the Metrum Sound is maybe the more "real" aka "natural" sound I've heard after the Totaldac. I'm done with DAC technology : R2R forever

 

[James-uk]

It seems logic and reason has taken a back seat in this thread. If I was a noob I would imagine the HD800 as some wild beast that needs putting in a cage. The truth is that it's voiced in a way that is amazing or frustrating depending on the recording. No amount of tweaking in the last 5 years has changed that fact so shouldn't we just accept that it's the nature of the HD800 'beast' ? ( basically what I'm saying is if we can't agree that analaxus mod plus (insert expensive tube amp) makes the HD800 into something it's not then surely it's time look at other options? I personally think the HD800 is a remarkable headphone but it can't polish a turd. A schiit recording is a schiit recording! For them recordings I reach for something to hide the truth. Heck somedays I prefer my car stereo to any of my gear. It is what it is. I'm not saying we shouldn't crave for more ( this is headfi) but sometimes it's good just to appreciate and enjoy how lucky we all are to be able to hear music in such privileged way instead of looking for faults that can't be fixed. Not many people can say that. Sorry for the rant but I just felt the urge for some perspective. Love you all! James