[rudyae86]

Does BF1 allow you to specifically set up sound to output surround channels?

I tried Windows Sonic with BF4 and there is a difference. I can't distinguish from front/back very clearly but there is definitely some HRTF going on because there is crossfeed happening (which the game by itself doesn't use at all even when you select Headphones and makes me sound deaf from one ear defending if the sound comes from the left or right).

BF1 does give you the option to output surround channels. But I have tried it and its missing the LFE signal and the position of the other speakers don't sound right.

I k ow I have my Asus Xonar DG set up right in the control panel and in windows settings, so something isnt right.

You probably have it set up wrong though....especially if Windows is only detecting 2 channel stereo in your settings when it's supposed to do 7.1.

I'm starting to think This Dolby Atmos for headphones in Windows is probably not what we expected and just adds some sort of reverb or tries to expand the sound stage of a stereo signal.

 

[Fegefeuer]

it doesn't work for games at all. Right now it just sits on top and passes 2.0 through while grabbing multichannel input streams and doing 7.1 VST for them.
 
check these tracks out with DAfHP enabled:
 
http://s1.demo-world.eu/hd_trailers.php?file=dolby_truehd_channel_check_lossless-DWEU.mkv
 
http://s1.demo-world.eu/hd_trailers.php?file=dolby_amaze_lossless-DWEU.m2ts

 

[BlueNinja0]

You probably have it set up wrong though....especially if Windows is only detecting 2 channel stereo in your settings when it's supposed to do 7.1.

 
What do you mean? The output will always be configured to be 2 channels. I'm using an ODAC, that only has 2 channels.
 
What can I have set up wrong? Windows Sonic with 7.1 virtual surround is enabled and BF4 is set up to output surround sound. There's barely anything I can set up at all.

 

[rudyae86]

What do you mean? The output will always be configured to be 2 channels. I'm using an ODAC, that only has 2 channels.

What can I have set up wrong? Windows Sonic with 7.1 virtual surround is enabled and BF4 is set up to output surround sound. There's barely anything I can set up at all.

Compared to how I have my Xonar DG set up, in Windows playback devices, it's configured with 7.1 and not 2.0. Then in Bf1 I set up Surround and Large Speakers and that is how I get my Virtual surround sound with Dolby Headphone.

So I guess maybe the set up for Sonic and Dolby Atmos is different?

 

[BlueNinja0]

Compared to how I have my Xonar DG set up, in Windows playback devices, it's configured with 7.1 and not 2.0. Then in Bf1 I set up Surround and Large Speakers and that is how I get my Virtual surround sound with Dolby Headphone.

So I guess maybe the set up for Sonic and Dolby Atmos is different?

 
Seeing as how all virtual surround implementations on Windows are kind of a hack and MS did not expect for a 7.1 surround sound to be inputted and then outputted as 2.0, and since now it is officially supported at the OS level, I believe it might be intentional for the output to be set to 2.0 for headphones, even if it's 7.1 surround processed through HRTF.
The big question is if Windows reports 7.1 or 2.0 to the games when Windows Sonic or Dolby Atmos is enabled. Anyone here knows how to query Windows on that? Or any MS documentation?

 

[rudyae86]

   
Seeing as how all virtual surround implementations on Windows are kind of a hack and MS did not expect for a 7.1 surround sound to be inputted and then outputted as 2.0, and since now it is officially supported at the OS level, I believe it might be intentional for the output to be set to 2.0 for headphones, even if it's 7.1 surround processed through HRTF.
The big question is if Windows reports 7.1 or 2.0 to the games when Windows Sonic or Dolby Atmos is enabled. Anyone here knows how to query Windows on that? Or any MS documentation?

You explained it better than I did lol but yeah that is what I am wondering as well.
 
Because even though I have enabled DA or Sonic and in BF1 I have it set up with Surround/Large Speakers, I am missing sound cues and noticed it immediately.
 
I even tested using an MKV file that shows you what speaker is being played and even used Dolby Atmos sampler files from their website and it isn't working on all speakers.
 
Here, these are the files
 
https://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/test-tones.html
 
And so far as to my experience is that the games are seeing 2.0 when both HRTFs are enabled.

 

[mindbomb]

   
Seeing as how all virtual surround implementations on Windows are kind of a hack and MS did not expect for a 7.1 surround sound to be inputted and then outputted as 2.0, and since now it is officially supported at the OS level, I believe it might be intentional for the output to be set to 2.0 for headphones, even if it's 7.1 surround processed through HRTF.
The big question is if Windows reports 7.1 or 2.0 to the games when Windows Sonic or Dolby Atmos is enabled. Anyone here knows how to query Windows on that? Or any MS documentation?

media player classic home cinema's internal audio renderer checks the default format and is very transparent about how it changes the audio to match it. It downmixes to 2.0 with windows sonic.
 
This is really the issue. The default format is all about what the dac supports. The application doesn't need to match the default format - that's the whole point of the windows mixer. Yet so many things autoconfigure themselves to do that. And then they can't be used with windows sonic.
 
The valve games (tf2, csgo) give you explicit control over output format. So you should be able to set them to 7.1 and then use it with windows sonic headphones. This isn't a microsoft problem imo, this is an application issue. More programs should give you control like this.

 

[BlueNinja0]

  You explained it better than I did lol but yeah that is what I am wondering as well.
 
Because even though I have enabled DA or Sonic and in BF1 I have it set up with Surround/Large Speakers, I am missing sound cues and noticed it immediately.
 
I even tested using an MKV file that shows you what speaker is being played and even used Dolby Atmos sampler files from their website and it isn't working on all speakers.
 
Here, these are the files
 
https://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/test-tones.html
 
And so far as to my experience is that the games are seeing 2.0 when both HRTFs are enabled.

 
Indeed I can't get any positioning from those files and Sonic is turned on. But the funny thing is: With all kinds of HRTF turned off, shouldn't the front and back speakers sound exactly the same when downmixed? Why do I always hear them different?
I did this little test on Foobar some months ago in which I was listening to music normally (a standard 2.0 channels file) on my headphones and then I used the "Move stereo to rear channels" DSP to send the music to the rear channels and the music sounded different... why?
 
 

  media player classic home cinema's internal audio renderer checks the default format and is very transparent about how it changes the audio to match it. It downmixes to 2.0 with windows sonic.
 
This is really the issue. The default format is all about what the dac supports. The application doesn't need to match the default format - that's the whole point of the windows mixer. Yet so many things autoconfigure themselves to do that. And then they can't be used with windows sonic.
 
The valve games (tf2, csgo) give you explicit control over output format. So you should be able to set them to 7.1 and then use it with windows sonic headphones.

 
This is a real problem MS must solve. They were the ones that encouraged developers to use the number of channels reported by Windows and now develop a feature incompatible with it?
By the way, where do you check that on MPC?

 

[mindbomb]

By the way, where do you check that on MPC?

When you use the internal audio renderer (options>output>audio renderer), then it will match the default format. Then you can right click in the window, go to filters> internal audio and see what processing is being done.
 
 
By default, it will just output all the channels that exist in the file. You can also set the mixer to 7.1 (internal filters>audio decoder>mixing) and always output 7.1 with the default renderer.

 

[BlueNinja0]

  When you use the internal audio renderer (options>output>audio renderer), then it will match the default format. Then you can right click in the window, go to filters> internal audio and see what processing is being done.
 
 
By default, it will just output all the channels that exist in the file. You can also set the mixer to 7.1 (internal filters>audio decoder>mixing) and always output 7.1 with the default renderer.

 
So, by forcing it to output 7.1, can you check if Windows Sonic is working?

 

[rudyae86]

Ugh, this is getting confusing lol.

 

[youareme7]

  When you use the internal audio renderer (options>output>audio renderer), then it will match the default format. Then you can right click in the window, go to filters> internal audio and see what processing is being done.
 
 
By default, it will just output all the channels that exist in the file. You can also set the mixer to 7.1 (internal filters>audio decoder>mixing) and always output 7.1 with the default renderer.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around all this but if you set up MPC to use an internal renderer wouldn't that completely eliminate the dolby headphone virtualization step in the process? Like:
 
(8ch decoded out) > Dolby headphone process > headphones
vs.
(8ch decoded out) > Internal renderer (downmix) > headphones

 

[mindbomb]

   
So, by forcing it to output 7.1, can you check if Windows Sonic is working?

 
setting the mixer to 7.1 and leaving the audio renderer on default directsound device will have windows sonic always on for anything you play.

 

[BlueNinja0]

  I'm still trying to wrap my head around all this but if you set up MPC to use an internal renderer wouldn't that completely eliminate the dolby headphone virtualization step in the process? Like:
 
(8ch decoded out) > Dolby headphone process > headphones
vs.
(8ch decoded out) > Internal renderer (downmix) > headphones

 
Why should the internal renderer downmix if everything were working correctly? If Windows Sonic worked correctly, Windows would report to MPC that it wants 7.1 sound (even if in reality it's just outputting 2.0), and then the Windows Sonic mixer would downmix to 2.0 with the HRTF effects.
 

   
setting the mixer to 7.1 and leaving the audio renderer on default directsound device will have windows sonic always on for anything you play.

 
Yes, I understand it's not a desirable option. It was just to test if Windows Sonic is indeed applying any HRTF effect when MPC is set to output 7.1

 

[Brushy]

I've been fiddling with Dolby Atmos Headphone (in Win 10)all night and nothing sounds good on it. I'm using AKG K712, Sennheiser Game One, and some Pioneer AE1000 for testing. My SB E5 with Virtual 7.1 sounds much better. Everything is cleaner. On the other hand, if I set everything to pure Stereo and run the game OVerwatch and change the in-game audio to Dolby Atmos, that game itself sounds better than running it in surround on my SB E5. So I'm starting to think it's a Windows issue. But then if I run the little Atmos Headphone Demo vids, (in win Dolby Access), They even sound better with my Soundb blaster E5's surround on instead of Win's Dolby Atmos. I'm about to check the Dolby tes tones rudy linked earlier. This is definitely a let down so far.


Edit: Just tested the Tone Tests and am also missing the Sub sounds. If you run Dolby Access from Win 10, you can click the little "Info" button on the bottom right side. That will pop up a menu where you can select to leave Feedback. I have left a pretty verbose message about this, already. I suggest you people leave a little feedback yourselves.