[pocahontas]

I currently have two sets of headphones I use for gaming:

Sennheiser HD650 - for most games where audio isn't super important, I like the sound of these the best (big fan of the "Sennheiser" sound.

AKG K7XX - for games like CSGO where the audio has an impact on performance, the more neutral sound and larger soundstage makes it easier to distinguish subtle sounds and positional information.

I'm running both with a Grace Design M9XX amp/dac, which is a bit overkill for gaming but was purchased for all-around use including music (obviously). I do not run any kind of virtual surround and crossfeed is turned off on my unit.

Hello and thanks you for your response. Concerning the price "500dollars", yes i do think so. But i do have a question since you are a gamer, how to you compare the lastest (3y or less) motherboard audio part ?  alc1150? the capacity of running audiophile headphone like akg k702 701 712.... ?
Thx you.

 

[Aithos]

 
Hello and thanks you for your response. Concerning the price "500dollars", yes i do think so. But i do have a question since you are a gamer, how to you compare the lastest (3y or less) motherboard audio part ?  alc1150? the capacity of running audiophile headphone like akg k702 701 712.... ?
Thx you.

 
To be honest I don't know anything about that chip for on-board sound.  The only one I've used in the last 3 years is the SupremeFX that came on my Asus Maximus VI Formula (ROG) motherboard.  It sounded pretty decent but I have to qualify that statement with a "for onboard", most motherboards don't handle 300ohm or higher headphones very well so it's definitely an exception.  
 
With that being said... compared to an actual amp/dac it's night and day, the Grace Design sounds so much better it's almost like I was wearing a cheap headset before.  If you can't afford a separate amp/dac I would look at getting a decent sound-card instead.  Also, iirc I think I remember people saying that the AKG headphones are pretty picky about amplification so I wouldn't use them with onboard.
 
If you wanted a decent amp/dac for less than what I'm using I'd look at the Schiit Magni/Modi stack, the normal version is $200 (for both) and the uber versions are $300.  Although for $300 I'd get a JDSlabs o2+odac instead.  Those are both VERY good units for music and gaming and aren't quite as pricey as the Grace Design.

 

[pocahontas]

   
To be honest I don't know anything about that chip for on-board sound.  The only one I've used in the last 3 years is the SupremeFX that came on my Asus Maximus VI Formula (ROG) motherboard.  It sounded pretty decent but I have to qualify that statement with a "for onboard", most motherboards don't handle 300ohm or higher headphones very well so it's definitely an exception.  
 
With that being said... compared to an actual amp/dac it's night and day, the Grace Design sounds so much better it's almost like I was wearing a cheap headset before.  If you can't afford a separate amp/dac I would look at getting a decent sound-card instead.  Also, iirc I think I remember people saying that the AKG headphones are pretty picky about amplification so I wouldn't use them with onboard.
 
If you wanted a decent amp/dac for less than what I'm using I'd look at the Schiit Magni/Modi stack, the normal version is $200 (for both) and the uber versions are $300.  Although for $300 I'd get a JDSlabs o2+odac instead.  Those are both VERY good units for music and gaming and aren't quite as pricey as the Grace Design.

Hi, so for you it would be a night and day upgrade? concerning the o2 and the odac versus what you had for exemple on your motherboard( ASUS Maximus VI Formula C2)?
Because technicaly the sound quality was very cared of if i read here:
https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/MAXIMUS_VI_FORMULA/
 
Because for exemple, if you look at an high end mother board right now like the Gigabyte Z170X-Gaming G1 or the MSI Z170A GAMING M9 ACK, it look good and i would only buy it for the audio (80% of my criteria)

 

[Corundum]

Hello everyone.  I'm currently searching for an upgrade to my current setup, which is an ATH-AD700 played from my onboard Realtek HD audio.  I primarily use it for gaming, and sometimes passively listen to music on it while doing other things.
 
After looking through both this thread and Mad Lust Envy's thread, I think I'm going to go with the DT990 Pro 250 Ohm, as I highly value clarity in the treble range, and would like something with more bass without sacrificing a huge amount of soundstage and positioning.  My other top choices were the K612 Pro, X2, and K712 Pro.  The DT990 and K612 could be found for roughly $150, and the X2 and K712 were nearly double that, and I found it hard to justify the more expensive options given the amount of recommendations for the DT990.
 
Since I'm considering the 250 Ohm version of the DT990, my onboard audio would no longer be sufficient to drive my headphones, so I am looking for opinions regarding external DACs, amps, or DAC/amp combos.
 
There is a slight audible hiss at all times (3-5 dB) when I have my headphones plugged in to the onboard audio, which I assume is either EMI or power supply jitter.  Would an external DAC have an audible hiss like this as well?
 
The options I am currently considering are as follows:
 

• Sound Blaster Z + SBX Pro Studio Surround >> DT990
• Sound Blaster X-Fi MB3 + SBX Pro Studio Surround >> Schiit Fulla >> DT990
• Sound Blaster X-Fi MB3 + SBX Pro Studio Surround >> Schiit Modi 2 >> Schiit Magni 2 >> DT990

 
Would the internal SBZ card also experience the same hiss as the onboard audio?  With the DT990, would there be a SQ difference between the SBZ, Fulla, and Modi/Magni?  What about the Uber versions of the Modi/Magni stack?  My wallet would prefer options 1 and 2, as they are much cheaper than 3.
 
I don't know about the SBZ amp, but the Fulla amp should be sufficient as I rarely listen to anything over 90 dB.  Can anyone render any experiences, opinions, or recommendations regarding my options?

 

[pocahontas]

  Hello everyone.  I'm currently searching for an upgrade to my current setup, which is an ATH-AD700 played from my onboard Realtek HD audio.  I primarily use it for gaming, and sometimes passively listen to music on it while doing other things.
 
After looking through both this thread and Mad Lust Envy's thread, I think I'm going to go with the DT990 Pro 250 Ohm, as I highly value clarity in the treble range, and would like something with more bass without sacrificing a huge amount of soundstage and positioning.  My other top choices were the K612 Pro, X2, and K712 Pro.  The DT990 and K612 could be found for roughly $150, and the X2 and K712 were nearly double that, and I found it hard to justify the more expensive options given the amount of recommendations for the DT990.
 
Since I'm considering the 250 Ohm version of the DT990, my onboard audio would no longer be sufficient to drive my headphones, so I am looking for opinions regarding external DACs, amps, or DAC/amp combos.
 
There is a slight audible hiss at all times (3-5 dB) when I have my headphones plugged in to the onboard audio, which I assume is either EMI or power supply jitter.  Would an external DAC have an audible hiss like this as well?
 
The options I am currently considering are as follows:
 

• Sound Blaster Z + SBX Pro Studio Surround >> DT990
• Sound Blaster X-Fi MB3 + SBX Pro Studio Surround >> Schiit Fulla >> DT990
• Sound Blaster X-Fi MB3 + SBX Pro Studio Surround >> Schiit Modi 2 >> Schiit Magni 2 >> DT990

 
Would the internal SBZ card also experience the same hiss as the onboard audio?  With the DT990, would there be a SQ difference between the SBZ, Fulla, and Modi/Magni?  What about the Uber versions of the Modi/Magni stack?  My wallet would prefer options 1 and 2, as they are much cheaper than 3.
 
I don't know about the SBZ amp, but the Fulla amp should be sufficient as I rarely listen to anything over 90 dB.  Can anyone render any experiences, opinions, or recommendations regarding my options?

Hi, i heard that your headphone is already the best regarding "soundstage". I don't think you will have better if we speak only about gaming. Maybe some one could suggest you some thing equivalent with a more overall performance..

 

[Fegefeuer]

Did you check out the K7XX at Massdrop? 199 Dollars.Would always prefer that over the DT990 Pro 250 Ohm. 
 
No need to pay up for the K712 Pro für 300. K7XX will do just fine. 

 

[pocahontas]

  Did you check out the K7XX at Massdrop? 199 Dollars.Would always prefer that over the DT990 Pro 250 Ohm. 
 
No need to pay up for the K712 Pro für 300. K7XX will do just fine. 

Heard that K7xx is not the K712 pro. The pro is better.

 

[Corundum]

Oh wow, I didn't actually realize the K7XX was one specific product. Mad Lust Envy used K7XX in his reviews to denote the entire K701/2 range. Would any of my 3 potential setups be sufficient for the K7XX?

 

[Fegefeuer]

Oh wow, I didn't actually realize the K7XX was one specific product. Mad Lust Envy used K7XX in his reviews to denote the entire K701/2 range. Would any of my 3 potential setups be sufficient for the K7XX?

 
better get the Magni 2 UBER to stay safe(r)

 

[422561]

Regarding the section "Method for using sound card as DSP to output to any audio device, including USB ones, in Windows 7"
 
Does this also work with SBX on Sound Blaster Z in Windows 10?

 

[SoAmusing777]

   
I do it with my old PCI X-Fi XtremeMusic and it works perfectly. The sound quality is exactly the same as if you were using the sound card itself, to my ears (I recommend you configure all devices involved to the same sample rate to avoid Windows having to re-sample the sound, possibly degrading quality or increasing the latency). The only slight change you might notice is a bit of latency. I don't know if it's caused by the processing or by the routing of the sound to the external DAC, but it's only a slight difference. I'm planning to do a test myself and post it on this thread when I get the time: http://forum.symthic.com/battlefield-4-technical-discussion/5855-improving-bf4-s-positional-audio-with-profsave-profile/index14.html#post308859
 
I wish I had a way for it to work without needing to attach the actual sound card in my mobo because realistically it's there doing absolutely nothing. It's just there for the Creative drivers to work, but all the processing is done in software and the card is just consuming power and gathering dust, but oh well.

So what's the point of this? To use your own personal superior dac and amp to the soundcard? just using the soundcard for it's special properties? Wish one could use a soundcard like an external gpu. 

 

[NamelessPFG]

Regarding the section "Method for using sound card as DSP to output to any audio device, including USB ones, in Windows 7"
 
Does this also work with SBX on Sound Blaster Z in Windows 10?

 
I can't test it, but even so, I wouldn't recommend it. Further testing in my experience revealed that it actually sounded terrible, all distorted and crap compared to running it straight.
 
One of these days, I need to rewrite the guide outright.
 

I do it with my old PCI X-Fi XtremeMusic and it works perfectly. The sound quality is exactly the same as if you were using the sound card itself, to my ears (I recommend you configure all devices involved to the same sample rate to avoid Windows having to re-sample the sound, possibly degrading quality or increasing the latency). The only slight change you might notice is a bit of latency. I don't know if it's caused by the processing or by the routing of the sound to the external DAC, but it's only a slight difference. I'm planning to do a test myself and post it on this thread when I get the time: http://forum.symthic.com/battlefield-4-technical-discussion/5855-improving-bf4-s-positional-audio-with-profsave-profile/index14.html#post308859
 
I wish I had a way for it to work without needing to attach the actual sound card in my mobo because realistically it's there doing absolutely nothing. It's just there for the Creative drivers to work, but all the processing is done in software and the card is just consuming power and gathering dust, but oh well.

 
Well, this is an interesting forum thread. Sure wish I knew about it earlier; I'll give it a good read and see what I can do to improve those Frostbite engine games' mixing.
 
Everyone here has also been deconstructing what game engines and their audio systems are capable of more than my own two ears can let on, which is also good. I know I've had a few rude surprises about games sounding less capable than their audio APIs suggest, particularly the original Serious Sam TFE/TSE releases. EAX was an option in-game, but the sound mixing was still pretty basic, perhaps because they didn't want to kill the weaker CPUs of the time with all that sound processing for the series trademark hordes of enemies.
 
Meanwhile, let me throw in something else for you guys to think about:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/248983394/ossic-x-the-first-3d-audio-headphones-calibrated-t
 
On one hand, someone's taking 3D audio seriously again, even pushing for native object-based audio formats in PC games like we once had. That's great!
 
On the other, it's only going to work with this one specifically-designed headphone that isn't even made yet. They'd have more of a market if they made it a DSP box like the Smyth Realiser at a fraction of the price. At least then, you could use any existing set of headphones.

 

[robwiel]

Hi,

Looking for gear recommendation for headphone immersive gaming 3d/2d and music. Would greatly appreciate help.
Would love to keep decent positioning and better music experience when switching to nongaming headset.

Currently my PC:
X-Fi titanium pcie >> amp: C&C BH (temporary) analogue 3.5mm >> Bayerdynamic custom one plus (16 Ohms) 
+ V-moda boompro mic when arrives
Win10, danielk drivers
 
Recommendations for my PC:
X-Fi titanium pcie needs changing into anything more modern? Should I just get SB X7 for those headphones without any amps to gain quality and keep virtual surround?
Amp or no amp? O2, shiit magni/asgaard2/bifrost seem to be most common
Using TOSLink from X-Fi or keep analogue?
Any other closed headphones compatible with v-moda mic? (Alpha Dog seems overkill)
Do I need anything else?
 
My current impressions and budget
Sound on my headphones seems better with my AMP, I am looking for alternative though (noise while charging):
I have another 500 usd to complete setup, I can return bayerdynamic headphones but couldn't find closed headphone option out of linked choices.

For reference my portable listening:
I have c&c bh amp
And IEM 'custom art music one' which are amazing but hard to remove and for gaming would prefer closed cans.
This amp though is noisy when charging and not sure if good fit for computer setup and virtual 5.1/7.1 as described in guide

So far what I found out by digging through 160 pages of this would suggest that amp in SB X-Fi PCIE would be enough for 16 Ohms headphones.
 
regards,
Any help would be appreciated.

 

[BlueNinja0]

  So what's the point of this? To use your own personal superior dac and amp to the soundcard? just using the soundcard for it's special properties? Wish one could use a soundcard like an external gpu. 

 
The point is to be able to have virtual surround sound through a superior DAC.
 

   
Meanwhile, let me throw in something else for you guys to think about:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/248983394/ossic-x-the-first-3d-audio-headphones-calibrated-t
 
On one hand, someone's taking 3D audio seriously again, even pushing for native object-based audio formats in PC games like we once had. That's great!
 
On the other, it's only going to work with this one specifically-designed headphone that isn't even made yet. They'd have more of a market if they made it a DSP box like the Smyth Realiser at a fraction of the price. At least then, you could use any existing set of headphones.

 
Now this is very interesting! I also think there's a bit of a resurgence of 3D audio technology in part thanks to the impending VR headsets, which is a good thing. About time!
 

  Recommendations for my PC:
X-Fi titanium pcie needs changing into anything more modern? Should I just get SB X7 for those headphones without any amps to gain quality and keep virtual surround?
Amp or no amp? O2, shiit magni/asgaard2/bifrost seem to be most common
Using TOSLink from X-Fi or keep analogue?

 
This post I made previously might be of interest to you:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/593050/the-nameless-guide-to-pc-gaming-audio-with-binaural-headphone-surround-sound/3480#post_12251782
 
I do it with a super old PCI (not PCI-E) X-Fi. And you don't need to use TOSLink or analogue. Just USB from your PC to your DAC.

 

[robwiel]

Thansk

The point is to be able to have virtual surround sound through a superior DAC.


Now this is very interesting! I also think there's a bit of a resurgence of 3D audio technology in part thanks to the impending VR headsets, which is a good thing. About time!


This post I made previously might be of interest to you:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/593050/the-nameless-guide-to-pc-gaming-audio-with-binaural-headphone-surround-sound/3480#post_12251782

I do it with a super old PCI (not PCI-E) X-Fi. And you don't need to use TOSLink or analogue. Just USB from your PC to your DAC.

Thanks, seen your post before. Believe it or not I went throught 235 pages of Nameless gaming thread.

I just finished listening ath msr7 vs COP+ comparison at store.

Unsuprisingly I can confirm ath being more analytical/less fun. Bass is more responsive and precise than cop+ albeit missing at moments.

For competitive gaming much better than cop I imagine.

All in all, only 1 issue which disqualificates them for me - not comfortable earphones idk

Thx for all help will look for dac/amp now for cop+