[Jazper]

*more thoughts so figured I'd post again* (note I've used 637/627 opamps in each)

With the dtpakiller amp (as mentioned) I see the sound as clinical, I can single out an instrument and follow it through the track easily, there's lots of separation betwen the instruments, and as mentioned the nuances are easier to pick up so it's more "technical/analytical". The amp is gobsmackingly fast, and it resolves instruments as such with an edge. It's almost as if I'm listening to what someone recorded from a recording each of the instruments(and voices) seperately and then put together in a single recording with silence between them.

The M³ in contrast seems fuller, instead of having huge separation between the instruments it's harder to follow each of the individual instruments, while it is possible if the listener really tries, you don't want to. It's more like you're at a concert or at least in a studio with the performers and you just sit back and enjoy the performance.. The M³ isn't as fast as the dtpa, but that's not to say it's slow at all, just the dtpa is incredibly fast (by virtue of its tpa6120 and topology).

Different amps, different feel, I'd bet the dynahi is similar to the former also, and tube amps more like the latter. From what I see in these forums, people seem to be (overall) searching for the latter. This goes doubly true for the upper echelon of people who have huge disposable income to outlay on high quality gear.

 

[Mastergill]

As i've said many time here, i truly believe that the HD-650 which came out in the fall 2003 set a new standart about low harmonics distortion for headphones. I can guarantee you they are absolutely in the same league and maybe even better than my BBC monitors Rogers LS5/9 that i had for 10 years, that's quite an achievement for just a pair of phone if you ask me.

Tonal accuracy is more about low harmonics distortion (THD) than flat frequency response.

 

[rhythmdevils]

i have spent a lot of time searching for the most neutral headphone. most of my quest with this site revolves around neutrality. i feel it is soo much more important than any other factor. i would give up detail to get that tweeter out of my inner ear.

i would define tonal accuracy as reproducing EXACTLY what is in the recording, giving your ears the exact information that is on the cd. for me, i dont want my headphones to be neccessarily involving themselves, but rather allow the music to involve me. and for this to happen, for me, i need to hear exactly what is on the cd. i have an example of a different situation that i think describes my exact feelings on neutrality.

the example is eating tomatoes.

you can eat them plain, or you can eat them with salt, and then there are the varying amounts of salt you can put on it.

a tomato with salt tastes more exciting, or fun. but you are not tasting the tomato alone, you are enhancing it. the purist might not want to add that salt, even if it is more exhillerating. he might want to know that he is only eating what the tomato plant produced with sunlight and the nutrients in the soil.

i think this is the same process i go through with music. some headphones are definitely fun, and ultra engaging, but after a little while i get boared and wonder what the headphone is doing to the music. i want to hear "just the facts" i want to hear what the musicians produced with their instruments and creative energy, etc.

for me, if "just the facts" are not involving, then it is a problem with the music, not the headphone. a problem with the headphone comes to me when the headphone gets in the way of the music.

but often times i wonder how we could ever know that we are getting what is on the cd, and that what we think is neutrality isnt just the couloration that we prefer. because there is no way (that i know of) to plug straight into that digital or analog path and avoid the process of reproduction. what we need is a 1/4" input mounted in the back of the head...maybe

sorry if the whole tomato thing made no sense, maybe im just hungry

 

[DaHoboFest]

bose, that's why they are so popular.

 

[rsaavedra]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mastergill As i've said many time here, i truly believe that the HD-650 which came out in the fall 2003 set a new standart about low harmonics distortion for headphones. I can guarantee you they are absolutely in the same league and maybe even better than my BBC monitors Rogers LS5/9 that i had for 10 years, that's quite an achievement for just a pair of phone if you ask me. Tonal accuracy is more about low harmonics distortion (THD) than flat frequency response.

Bingo. With respect to tonal accuracy my votes also go for the HD650, as well as the Orpheus, and the HP-1000. The same three submissions I had for a thread entitled along the lines of "Top 3 favorite headphones ever".

 

[boodi]

..has anyone seen some hp1000 graph ( harmonic distortions for ex. ) ?

 

[rsaavedra]

Quote:

Originally Posted by boodi ..has anyone seen some hp1000 graph ( harmonic distortions for ex. ) ?

Not that I know, that's why at some point I created this thread asking people with top-tier headphones to send them to Headroom, so that they could do their measurements on them. Canman was sending his R10's and SA5000's, but afaik HP-1000's noone has sent yet. Btw just made a bump on that thread reminding Headfiers of it.

 

[rbaulbin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhythmdevils i have spent a lot of time searching for the most neutral headphone. most of my quest with this site revolves around neutrality. i feel it is soo much more important than any other factor. i would give up detail to get that tweeter out of my inner ear. i would define tonal accuracy as reproducing EXACTLY what is in the recording, giving your ears the exact information that is on the cd. for me, i dont want my headphones to be neccessarily involving themselves, but rather allow the music to involve me. and for this to happen, for me, i need to hear exactly what is on the cd. i have an example of a different situation that i think describes my exact feelings on neutrality. the example is eating tomatoes. you can eat them plain, or you can eat them with salt, and then there are the varying amounts of salt you can put on it. a tomato with salt tastes more exciting, or fun. but you are not tasting the tomato alone, you are enhancing it. the purist might not want to add that salt, even if it is more exhillerating. he might want to know that he is only eating what the tomato plant produced with sunlight and the nutrients in the soil. i think this is the same process i go through with music. some headphones are definitely fun, and ultra engaging, but after a little while i get boared and wonder what the headphone is doing to the music. i want to hear "just the facts" i want to hear what the musicians produced with their instruments and creative energy, etc. for me, if "just the facts" are not involving, then it is a problem with the music, not the headphone. a problem with the headphone comes to me when the headphone gets in the way of the music. but often times i wonder how we could ever know that we are getting what is on the cd, and that what we think is neutrality isnt just the couloration that we prefer. because there is no way (that i know of) to plug straight into that digital or analog path and avoid the process of reproduction. what we need is a 1/4" input mounted in the back of the head...maybe sorry if the whole tomato thing made no sense, maybe im just hungry

Well said... this is especially relevant in a studio environment, where you're trying to use headphones to check a mix. So what do you recommend?

I hear everyone mentioning the HP-1000's, but they're not available.

 

[Mastergill]

Me, i would recommend the Senn HD-650, but you'll need top-notch multi-thousand $ amp to really hear a nice improvement over HD-600. I rather suggest you keep your 600 and buy an HD25-1 to complement. Both are very nice tools for the studio.

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mastergill ...you'll need top-notch multi-thousand $ amp to really hear a nice improvement over HD-600.

Please?

 

[mjg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mastergill Me, i would recommend the Senn HD-650, but you'll need top-notch multi-thousand $ amp to really hear a nice improvement over HD-600. I rather suggest you keep your 600 and buy an HD25-1 to complement. Both are very nice tools for the studio.

Take his comment with a grain of salt, obviously some people know a particular sound and believe it best, but counting the dollars to find the appreciation level amp is pretty silly.

An emmeline HR2 for instance, is plenty of amp in the realm of appreciating hd650>hd600 improvement.

 

[Jahn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rsaavedra Bingo. With respect to tonal accuracy my votes also go for the HD650, as well as the Orpheus, and the HP-1000. The same three submissions I had for a thread entitled along the lines of "Top 3 favorite headphones ever".

And ranking those three, my list would be Orpheus #1, HP1000 #2, and HD650 #3.

 

[wualta]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikongod akg k1000. the freq response is flat as a board, except where the crossover is.

I second the earlier huh?: Crossover? Where? Not that AKG hasn't tried putting crossovers in mics and 'phones before.

 

[some1x]

There is no crossover, since the K1000 is single driver. I think nikongod is refering to the PCB filter

I haven't owned truly tonally accurate phones yet. Tonally, HD650 is the most natural sounding, most of the time

 

[Mastergill]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaZZ Please?

It's just that i've read lot of BS about HD600 vs HD650, so sometime i wonder...Fact is the better you feed them the better they will respond.