The long-delayed ATH-A1000, ATH-W1000, ATH-W2002 and MDR-CD3000 comparison

Apr 24, 2003 at 1:11 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 41

bangraman

Headphoneus Supremus
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[size=medium]PART 1: SOUND[/size]

In addition to retail CD’s, I’ve mixed in a couple of typical bitrate MP3’s on some high-energy / bass-heavy tracks (burned as an audio CD) so that I know how poorer-quality music sounds on the phones. I didn’t think it was worth it trying it with music that would immediately point out the failings of MP3.
This isn't, despite the longness, that detailed a review. It focuses on the relative differences and doesn't try and review each phone in-depth. The general idea is to go and read one of those reviews elsewhere then come here to compare.


WHAT I USED
Really, I had my doubts about this review because there are so many factors that depend on the source driving the phones. So I’m going to tell you about my sources.


Sony CDP-X3000 CD player
By all accounts one of the best redbook-only players that Sony have produced, and still very sought after on the secondhand market in Japan. It uses a fixed pickup which is unusual. The theory is I suppose that a gyroscopically stabilised mass is less likely to wobble under constant small movement than a lightweight pickup. For an English review, go here. http://www.hifichoice.co.uk/archive/...rintreview.htm

World Audio HD83 amp with rebuild/revision (still with OT, but not the originals, design now fixed for low-impedance phones). I can’t really tell you much about how the original HD83 would have sounded, by all accounts it’s very good for the kit price. This particular amp was wired wrong when I got it, no wonder I thought something was amiss… So with the help of a friend who’s much better at this, it was duly completely rebuilt, with new rather more expensive bits than what was present. Valves have remained the same though, a change didn’t seem to affect the sound that much compared to the other changes.

Atlas Navigator All Cu interconnect
A new brand in the UK, their cheaper cables have gained 5-star reviews in the UK Hi-Fi press. My favourite acceptably priced (£180 / $280) cable, clean sounding.

This is all running off a mains distribution block I was given, which I understand retails for about $300. The cable on the Sony is captive, but a LAT power cable is used on the WAD amp. Nothing outrageous, but stuff that simply does the job. There’s clean power already in this portion of the house so it’s a slight case of belt and braces.


Backup
[size=xx-small]As a backup, I also listened on an alternative setup, which is the same CD player going to a Cambridge Audio S700 DAC via coaxial, and a META42. Although it was much noisier and considerably less well resolved, I actually enjoyed this combo more on the rock-ish tracks due to the fatter (but bloatier) bass and the much warmer feel. So bear that in mind. These results haven’t been included in what you’ll read here but I just did it to be sure I was getting results I could publish without embarrassment later
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If anything, the results from the backup is an indication that results on your systems may vary. Many people remark when I mention the WAD amp that I must like ‘tube magic’. I don’t really. I wanted a very cool, very tight, extremely clean sound out of my setup, and I have it. When I was fiddling with the amp I realised it had potential to resolve better and be cooler, so that’s what I and my friend, also an audio nut but regrettably with no interest in phones, did. It is rather perverse to meet the coolness requirement with a tube amp, but I have. If your system veers towards comparatively warm and bloated or excessively bassy for example, my assessment of the phones may not quite agree with you. For the whole time of the review the X3000 sat on the S700 DAC (which is also an isolation platform). [/size]


[size=medium]THE MUSIC[/size]

Tool – Laetalus (192K MP3)
Overall winner: CD3000. Rest: W2002, A1000, W1000
Tool. Yes. A, well, Toolish track. What more can you say.

The CD3000 wins due to it’s wider soundstage and all-round response. The A1000 throws in a very good kick to the bass, superior to anything here, but the layers in the mix are compressed together so separation and placing is not as good. The W2002 easily takes resolution to the max like the CD3000 but a closer soundstage robbing it of the slightly ‘stadium feel’ that both the CD3000 and the W1000 provides. The W1000 trails here, although it does pretty well mainly because of the wide wide feel, made even airier by the comparative absence of bass and excellent placing. The best compromise goes to the CD3000.


You’re Worth The Whole World – Hood (Cold House)
Overall winner: None.
They’re a great group now, but no doubt embarrassingly past-it in 10 years time. You don’t listen to them for a soothing time or their ability to sing. However the way they splice up their vocals and instrumentals in ways that demands a listen. It’s especially to the fore in this track. Interesting, rather than entertaining or thought-provoking.

I couldn’t really gauge a clear ‘winner’, only different renditions. The CD3K had a much better separation between the voices at centre, left and right, as well as a clearly discernible superior depth to the soundstage. However the bass was unnecessarily bloated, feeding in much more bass than necessary and obscuring parts of the track. The ATH-A1000 was a lot better at communicating exactly what was going on down there, but had a compressed feel to the soundstage… which didn’t necessarily do the track any harm. The W1000 had a flatter oval-shaped soundstage with the same width as the CD3K but with less depth. The bass was well resolved and in the context of this track, didn’t feel thin. But the whole performance did feel noticeably wide 2-D compared to the others, which were compacted or wide but all fairly 3-D in depth.
The W2002 had a good separation, good depth, good bass and It didn’t particularly stand out in any of the categories I’d mentioned above except resolution, which was superior. Once again, as acceptable a performance as the rest.


Isoldes Liebestod – Richard Wagner (Tristan & Isolde, DG 423 613-2)
Overall winner: CD3000. Rest: W2002, W1000, A1000
Jessye Norman flexes her considerable lungs on this track, while Karajan does the stick-swinging. The whole Wagner thing has been totally ruined for me as a result of watching the Bugs Bunny / Elmer Fudd Wagner special. Every time I listen to Wagner, instead of majestic Valkyries I now get a mental image of Bugs in a dress and pigtails. Thanks a bunch, Chuck…

The CD3000 provides the boomy bass and the concert-hall wide soundstage. I felt it was the best compromise for this recording, because although the W2002 turned in a much better resolved performance all around with noticeably better detail, with the W2002 you felt as you were in the orchestra mosh pit, as opposed to the CD3000 feel, quietly snoozing in the stalls and being woken up with a start when the loud bits come on
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The W1000 valiantly tried and it also had the nearly the same sense of space as the CD3K, but those drumrolls just didn’t have the meat to boom, and Norman’s voice lacked overall weight. The A1000 turned in a very listenable performance with a nicely balanced sound, but once again, just didn’t have the resolving capability or the soundstage for the real Headphone Wagner Experience.


Keep Hope Alive – The Crystal Method (128kbps MP3)
Overall winner: ATH-W2002. Rest: A1000, CD3K, W1000
This forms the backdrop of the obligatory John Woo “pirouettes with guns in slow motion” opening scene of the cool movie Replacement Killers. It was also a UK Armed Forces recruitment advertisement soundtrack. It is, of course, also a reasonably classic dance tune.

The W2002 wins by preserving the balance of the mix best. Thundering lows, keeping the cymbals clear which didn’t rise like a sore thumb out of the mix like the CD3K and the W1000. Soundstage was comparatively collapsed on this material due to the bitrate/MP3 so this superior aspect of the CD3K and the W1000 were effectively negated. The CD3K went ahead of the W1000 once again due to the latter’s lack of bass. The A1000 came second with a slightly tauter bass than the W2002, but an inability to reach as low, as well as a comparatively 2D-placed rendition.


I Love Being Here With You – Diana Krall (A Night In Paris)
Overall winner: ATH-W2002. Rest: W1000-CD3K tied, A1000
The lady can play and the lady can sing. For a short time, I was seduced by smooth Norah Jones, but the CD now gathers dust, whereas I have stacks of Krall CD's that I listen to on a regular basis. This is a live album and therefore should feature a concert hall ambience. So am I there with Diana?

I think I am with the ATH-W2002. It’s a closer performance than the CD3000, but it’s all much more detailed and natural sounding. I can pick out all the layers of the track effortlessly and it all coagulates together for a superb performance. The CD3000 dishes up less resolution, a more disjointed feel of the whole performance and bloat for the double bass… and more unexpectedly the guitar, but compensates with a spacious concert hall like feel with excellent soundstage and placing. The W1000 does a really good inbetween job here with a wide soundstage, good placing and loses the unnecessary bloat of the CD3K for a taut performance. I’ve tied both on opposite spectrums of bass competency
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The A1000 unfortunately brings up the rear with a close sounding performance, and without the resolving capabilities of any of the other phones. But it does well to reproduce all the frequencies naturally and it’s a zingy foot-tapper if you’re listening non-critically.


Moralita d’una perla – Antonio Lotti (A. Scarlatti/A.Lotti, Madrigali – The Consort of Musicke)
Overall winner: ATH-W1000. Rest: CD3K, W2002, A1000
A madrigal, with the usual male/female voice interplay and swoopy stuff. Because the music is wholly within the range of the human voice and all the phones could reproduce that with their eyes closed, it was the recording ‘ambience’ that completely relied on the voices interacting with the recorded location and any effects applied thereafter. that was the whole crux of this test. And it had to go with my taste in the end. So this one was REALLY close.

The W1000 won out with a well-defined soundstage and a better texture to the voices, compared to the CD3K, which had a soundstage that was as wide but projected slightly more forwards (i.e. deeper soundstage), rendering the atmosphere a bit more natural and 3-D, but taking away some of the character of the voices for a slightly more ‘dead’ sound. The W2002 gave an inbetween performance and superior resolution once again, but with a closer feel to the voices, it didn’t have the sense of sitting in front of the ensemble. The A1000 didn’t have the soundstage, forward projection/depth nor the articulation to be considered above the other three. But as I said, it was REALLY close and I’ve really accentuated the differences here.


Sure Thing - St. Germain (Tourist)
Overall winner: ATH-W2002. Rest: CD3K, W1000, A1000
A slow pace beat, a fat synth bass line and a sweeping static noise pad sets the tone as well as a guy coming in with “you can bereberabeyyyy”
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and “wauwauwauwau” (But of course. St.G is French, what do you expect…) every now and then.

Both the CD3K and W1000 were guilty of letting the cymbals stick out of the top of the mix to distracting levels. The W2002, if you really, really concentrated had a smaller soundstage once again in this track but it wasn’t as noticeable. The W1K felt the airiest of all but it was too bright for this track. This may be considered higher fidelity but the W2002 provided as much detail in the cymbal shakes but prevented the scrapiness that resulted from both the CD3000 and the W1000… But the CD3000 got the overall frequency balance better. The A1000’s bigger bass became something of a distraction, although it was quite comforting to listen to on this track… But it wasn’t enough to place it above the rest.


Sonata VIII in D minor III – Corelli (Corelli Violin Sonatas, Manze/Egarr)
Overall winner: ATH-W1000. Rest: W2002, CD3K, A1000
This sounds plain wrong to me. The recording doesn’t just whiff subtly of modern violin playing, but is a sledgehammer of 20th century Look-At-Me virtuosity. However it’s technically accomplished.

This is one of those recordings where listening without heavy crossfeed will drive you around the bend… Because it seems that the single violin is coming from two distinct locations within the soundstage, and sometimes it even feels like two violins playing the same thing. The soundstage and placing advantages of the CD3K and the W1000 were negated here. However the W1000 turned in the top-ranking performance with a clean, well resolved and agile rendition, exactly what this kind of music needs. The CD3K in comparison felt leaden and lumpen, devoid of life… Something that the A1000 also shared. The W2002 turned in an good inbetween performance here, with some of the sense of agility, yet with an additional substance and texture to the overall performance over the W1000.


Nasty Girl – Destiny’s Child (Survivor)
Overall winner: ATH-A1000. Rest: CD3K, W2002, W1000
Levels are pretty hot on this album. It also gave me the chance to see how well the phones stayed on during that horizontal head-waving that’s mandatory in this type of music
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Go sistas! Beyonce berating ‘nasty girls put some clothes on’ while pictured in tight hotpants and blue boots…. Mmmmm drool…. Huh? Oh yes, damned hypocrites! Accursed modern pop! Burn them at the stake!

Once again, the CD3K and W1000 showed the poking out top. However the CD3000 once again scoring highly due to a quality rendition with good bass. Soundstage wasn’t so much of an issue with this track so the advantages these two phones provided didn’t score them up. The A1000 brought an extra snap to the bass and a better distributed rendition throughout the frequencies. The W2002 was… Well not entirely sure, but it had nearly the snap of the A1000 but was lacking something else, just sounded not quite there somehow.


First Approach – Vangelis (Direct)
Overall winner: ATH-W2002. Rest: CD3K, W1000, A1000
This album resulted in a change of style to a more accessible phase for Vangelis. I imagine he was having fun at the time. I was going to throw in a track from his “Invisible Connections” but I feared my typing would zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

This was definitely one of the tracks on which I can say the W2002’s blew all other comers away. This was despite a smaller soundstage than the CD3000, but I felt enveloped in the music and the Cello and flute in this track… in fact all the elements on the track, was reproduced with a noticeable extra element of beauty compared to the ultra-wide and very credible, solid performance put in by the CD3000. The W1000 lacked the weight that the CD3000 had behind the cello and as a result sounded fragile and restrained. The A1000 did the job well but without the soundstage of the CD3K/W1000 or the resolution ability of the W2002, it was a long way behind.


Moving On Up – Beverley Knight (The B-Funk)
Overall winner: CD3K. Rest: A1000, W2002, W1000
Some good, honest R&B/Funk whatever you want to call it. When I bought it straight after release, I couldn’t understand why it wasn’t a smash hit. Ah, the vagarities of marketing. It’s nice to see she’s finding some mainstream success, at last. This track is smooth and sleek, but is given an extra dimension of courtesy of Knight.

The CD3K took top honours due to the very open feel which complemented this track really nicely, and providing the clear separation of the various elements of the music. The cymbals had a habit of sticking out again but I felt that this was the best overall performance. The A1000 cruised nearly as high with a much better snap to the bass but it just didn’t have that spacious feel compared alongside the CD3K. The W2002’s resolution was a less decided advantage here, and with a slightly less snappy bass than the A1000 and without the wide open feel, it couldn’t match either the A1000 or the CD3K in track compatibility. The W1000 had comparatively little impact, relegating it do a distant fourth.



So, that’s it. What have we learned?

The CD3K has a good ability to convey detail, a wide open feel, excellent 3-D placing within the soundstage, but a tendency to hold the onion peels of music a bit too far apart, and a tendency to become bloaty. However this boominess can lend extra weight to music that needs it.

The W2002 has a more intimate feel, however with excellent 3-D placing around the more limited soundstage, and a more integrated feel to the overall performance. It’s bass is tight and the trebles are held in check, and it’s a detail fanatic.

The A1000 is comparatively compressed in soundstage, and it hasn’t got the apparent detail of any of the other phones here, which can compromise the fact that it has a fairly integrated feel… The lack of detail can compress those layers further making things seem muddled. The trebles are bright but not over-bright, and overall it seems to have more energy. A definitely big yet a tighter bass than any other phone here, which gives more snap to the music, especially pop.

The W1000’s relatively glassy and delicate feel conveys apparent detail by the bagful, and is supported by an abbreviated, lower-level but nevertheless pretty snappy and well resolved bass. Although the soundstage is as wide as the CD3000, the placing is ever so slightly flatter. However with the least bass in terms of it’s presence among these phones, it works comparatively badly for music that needs substance down below. There is some disconnection between the treble and the rest of the performance and for some music it can be over-bright.


Sound-only Evaluation

Having listened to all the phones, I’d have to say the general winner on compatibility with wide music styles and overall resolution is the Sony CD3000. The ATH-W2002 trails on the width of soundstage (but arguably superior positioning), but excels at delivering detail and nuances that passes the CD3000 by. These are the best ‘all-rounders’ with appropriate sources.
The A1000 and W1000 do make a pretty good go of everything, but if I had to slot them into a genre, I’d say the A1000 is the pop phone and the W1000 the classical phone.


I stress that these are my relative impressions, and my evaluation of the musical ability of each phone is influenced by my tastes. However being very relative I think the overall character of each phone has been alowed to be exposed.
 
Apr 24, 2003 at 1:35 PM Post #2 of 41
Thanks so much. This was a super morning read. Well worth the wait and "teaser" photos
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BTW...thanks for the Bugs Bunny reference...now I can't get it out of my head
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I vote for inclusion in the Reviews section with those yummy pics you took.

John
 
Apr 24, 2003 at 1:39 PM Post #3 of 41
Wow, for a guy that not that long ago didn't want to do reviews you sure came up with an excellent one this round. Great job bangraman and I'm sure many people will find it quite useful. This should make it into the featured reviews. Mods?
 
Apr 24, 2003 at 2:00 PM Post #6 of 41
great read, proves that headphone choice is really all down to the quality and type of the initial recording and the listeners preference, as opposed to "this pair is the best"... well done.
 
Apr 24, 2003 at 2:30 PM Post #7 of 41
Kudos! Nice job.
 
Apr 24, 2003 at 4:53 PM Post #8 of 41
kill the wabbit...kill the wabbit.....

Thanks Bangraman great review. Quick question where would you place the a900 generally. Obviously I am currently trying to decide between the a900 and a1000. The A1000's lack of ability to do classical well is a slight concern though I imagine it would sound great with some rock or indie tracks.

Wordsworth
 
Apr 24, 2003 at 7:33 PM Post #11 of 41
Great read! Thanks bangraman!
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If nothing else, this proves what I have really come to suspect about my W1000. System synergy is extremely important. Not long ago, I would have disagreed with your impressions of the bass, but recently I switched out my VS Power 3 power cord for a Venhaus Flavor 1. Now my system is exactly as you have described yours, very tight and clean, and unfortunately the bass is now noticeably lacking in comparison to the Power 3, which provides a warmer sound at the expense of cleanliness and tightness. Now, of course, I have a problem: I like the bass of the Power 3, but I like pretty much everything else about the Venhaus 1. I've read that the VD Audition might give me the best of both worlds, so that's my next upgrade.

Sorry to go off on a personal audio journey there, but the profound difference that a power cable has made with the W1000 has made me really come to appreciate system matching. Also, it has really made me come to appreciate reviews like yours because one can start to get a feeling of what works best with what in relation to my own preferences.
 
Apr 24, 2003 at 8:09 PM Post #13 of 41
only thing i was hoping for was the inclusion of the A900. You always talk about it having the wider soundstage, but you also always talk about it having a recessed midrange. I would love to have known how it faired against all these other high end cans.
 
Apr 24, 2003 at 8:23 PM Post #14 of 41
To be honest, sonically it was in a different league and it wasn't fair to include it because comparatively, it would have been disparaged. It's a great can to listen to and own (The understated blue made me fall in love with it again) but it can't quite hold it's head up in this company. There's significant loss of resolution, additional bloat over the CD3000 and a whole host of other issues if I was being critical.


I think others said the mids are recessed on the A900... I've always thought it was fairly flat, and that the trebles and bass is slightly boosted.
 
Apr 24, 2003 at 8:28 PM Post #15 of 41
A great, informative review. Thanks, bangraman. (So it's true, Joelongwood has the right idea - you really do need to get a separate headphone for each "type of music."
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)

Anyway, I especially like your "music is like an onion" analogy: Quote:

The CD3K has a good ability to convey detail, a wide open feel, excellent 3-D placing within the soundstage, but a tendency to hold the onion peels of music a bit too far apart


 

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