[kitsand]

The people recognize themselves in their commodities; they find their soul in their automobile, hi-fi set, split-level home, kitchen equipment.

Herbert Marcuse
--One-Dimensional Man

 

[Masolino]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kitsand The people recognize themselves in their commodities; they find their soul in their automobile, hi-fi set, split-level home, kitchen equipment. Herbert Marcuse --One-Dimensional Man

"All we like sheep...all we like sheep have gone astray.
We have turned everyone to his own way."
(sung to the tune of Handel's in Messiah)

 

[LFC_SL]

Getting very philosophical ppl

 

[chewmanji]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicolaij R. When I said: "I refuse to believe that we MUST fall into one of these category" I intended we as all the people that buy a DAP. The whole composed by all the people that buy a DAP can be devided into: -the people that buy an iPod -the people that buy another one and if you don't fall in the first category, you surely will fall into the second one. So if you buy a DAP you're are a sheep!!

With that statement, you could argue that everyone who does ANYTHING can be labeled a sheep. Essentially what you're saying that differences between people, whether it be characteristics or DAP purchase choices, or the type of ice cream you prefer, differentiate between different types of sheep. Maybe we Head-fiers are ALL sheep because we choose to pursue higher quality sound reproduction. I would have to disagree with you on that.

In my opinion, there can be three loose distinctions between buyers of DAPs, if we must categorize:

1. the big sheep - victims of mass marketing, who buy iPods because either they know of no better, or that they have somehow evolved into a status symbol
2. the little sheep - all the iPod haters, who buy other DAPs just because everyone else has an iPod
3. finally, where I believe the majority of Head-Fi DAP users fit....the anti-sheep - research is done based on wants and needs, performance and cost, and an educated purchase is made. This could mean you buy and iPod. Or not. Whatever works and is the most practical for you.

Of course, there are no set boundaries between these distinctions. You may have had a little anti-iPod feeling influence your purchase, but hey, nobody here is completely impervious to the call of the sheep!

I went out of my way to get my iAudio M3. Was it simply because it was not an iPod? Yes and no. Yes in the sense that looking at the features and researching on users' reported problems with battery life, it did not suit my purpose. No in the sense that I was not trying to make a statement such as, "Everybody has an iPod, I'm so sick of seeing these white earbuds sticking out of people's ears, so I'm gunna buck the trend and get something else!" I would like to put myself in that third category of "anti-sheep", with a little bit of "little sheep".

I find it this observation by scrypt quite similar to differing choices in preferred genre of music. I'm not too sure about people here, but I find a lot of people I know NEVER listen to mainstream "pop" music because:

1. They don't want to be associated with the 13 year old girls who listen to it
2. They were brought up in an environment that tells them what they listen to is "good"
3. They have no musical appreciation for boy bands, etc.

Actually, what I see in this thread is quite similar to what I am reading in the "20 Years Into Future - What will be 'classic rock'? thread. Both of these threads are interesting reads.

 

[Nicolaij R.]

I'm sorry chewmanji but you make me doubt that you have read the entire thread...
I know that 5 pages aren't a short reading, but...

I've stated and in fact I DO NOT believe that every one is a sheep...
I just was answering to another post...

 

[DaKi][er]

What I want to know is why does everyone get so dam uptight and defensive over their mp3 player? There are bigger arguments on these things than there are between Windows, Linux and Mac combined. No one says a peep about peoples headphone choices (or at least in the higher end spectrum) amp choices, or anything like that and everyone seems to respect views and opinions of everyone else and you may pick up a scuffle about the cable debate (I like to think, religion vs science) but most of the time they are far less that what the DAP debates.

One little theory I have, is that these things aren’t that cheap and you pay quite a bit for your toys, and to have someone else follow your views gives you great satisfaction in your mind that you made the right choice in what you bought. Most people will recommend what they bought as they think they made the right decision and don’t want to know they could have got 'something better' otherwise they don’t 'feel' good about their own decision and tying into the DAP department, these things have become a real lifestyle choice / fashion accessory / extension of ones self (and I would have to put most of that to apple in doing that) compared to just a tool to listen to music
(I’m trying to think of the words to express my theory here and they don’t seem to be coming to me, hope you can understand from this)

 

[Hirsch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaikoten It's perfectly fine to me if it's well suited for Joe and Josephine Six-Pack who aren't listening to 10 albums a day, but I hardly think I'm a sheep for wanting some features.

Well, just call me Joe Six-Pack. I've got an iPod. I've also got a Creative Nomad Zen, and an iRiver iHP-140. I bought the Zen because it was an excellent price/performance option when I decided to try a DAP. I bought the iPod because it's got the best user interface bar none in the click wheel, and is actually sonically better than the Zen. I bought the iRiver because that digital output could theoretically give me the best sonic performance available in a portable rig (and I wanted another source besides PDVD player to pair with my MicroDAC). The iPod is the one that gets the most use.

Maybe chewmanji needs to add a fourth category: those of us who buy everything?

In any event, I would not categorize anyone who made any of these choices, or any other player for that matter. It's possible to make a choice through educated research. It's possible to make a choice by buying what's cool at the time (see Head-Fi FOTM for example, whatever it happens to be). Since the end result of either purchase methodology may be the same product, it becomes impossible to classify the owners of any given product. The product itself does not define the person who reached the decision to buy it.

(edited last sentence)

 

[elrod-tom]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaKi][er What I want to know is why does everyone get so dam uptight and defensive over their mp3 player?

Boy oh boy, do I wish I knew the answer to that. Of all the forums on this site, the Portables forum is far and away the worst for flamewars and such...I'd guess that the number of incidents on this forum that require moderator intervention outnumber the next nearest forum by five times, easily.

I suspect that it's because folks who are most involved with portable gear are a little bit younger, and naturally more opinionated and outspoken (at least I was when I was younger

). Either that, or exposure to battery fumes...

 

[LFC_SL]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chewmanji [*]the big sheep - victims of mass marketing, who buy iPods because either they know of no better, or that they have somehow evolved into a status symbol[*]the little sheep - all the iPod haters, who buy other DAPs just because everyone else has an iPod[*]finally, where I believe the majority of Head-Fi DAP users fit....the anti-sheep - research is done based on wants and needs, performance and cost, and an educated purchase is made. This could mean you buy and iPod. Or not. Whatever works and is the most practical for you

Hmm I'm 1 and 3

I've never owned an iPod, but buy Nikes (not a DAP I know, but if u get me). I thought I did enough research for my HD3, but now realise I should have waited to summer, when the iaudio X5 became available in UK

 

[K2Grey]

It needs to be noted that if everyone is a "sheep", then the term "sheep" has no real meaning, because it does not really describe any quality or characteristic. So in order for "sheep" to have meaning, we must differentiate between some people being "sheep" and others being "non-sheep".

 

[Mano]

Quote:

Originally Posted by K2Grey It needs to be noted that if everyone is a "sheep", then the term "sheep" has no real meaning, because it does not really describe any quality or characteristic. So in order for "sheep" to have meaning, we must differentiate between some people being "sheep" and others being "non-sheep".

Strange logic, you are saying that a word loses its -figurative- meaning because its used to describe everybody?...

to me the group of people this word describes doesnt lose the characteristics in that description only because it describes everyone (or almost everyone)

the only way to differentiate this term would be to recognize a certain group of people HAVING the characteristics being called "sheep" and a group that DOESNT have those characteristics beign "non-sheep" or something alike; not because the word needs to have a meaning..... (hint: it already does!

)

 

[zeppelinfr34k]

I think it's implied by the title that he's referring to those people who (for whatever reason) are bitter towards iPod users. To call them "sheep" implies that they were drawn in by marketing and by aesthetics, without regard to the actual features or quality of the player. However, those who would label everyone who bought an iPod (or any other product that holds the largest market share, i.e. Windows) are almost certainly influenced by the second-level "sheepishness", since if they had made their choice solely based on the features and quality of the product they should be willing to believe that other people went through the same process and came to a different conclusion. In other words, you aren't a sheep for not owning an iPod until you apply the label to everyone who does.

 

[Shaikoten]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masolino How? In a lab or by reading tons of tech lit, second-handedly? I submit that much of the so-called tech literature in media nowadays is really advert with a guise of rationality.

Of course none of my "research" is first hand lab research, as I don't have the deepest pockets around

My "research" is comprised basically of trying out all of the players I can, and gathering lots and lots of independent reviews (from average people, not professional reviewers), looking at the specs, and taking into consideration the future of the device. So far, hands down, the Karma is the best portable music device I've seen, while the iAudio X5 and iRiver H340 are very close to each other in terms of overall features. The iPod is nice in terms of the click wheel navigation, but I still much prefer the Karma's scroll wheel.

I just NEED the features of my Karma, or a rockbox player. My H340 is currently a next to useless brick to me since so many of my albums require gapless. That could change very quickly depending on how fast the first version of H3xx rockbox firmware is released. In any event, I'm losing focus here. I work in advertising, so I know a lot of the tricks and ploys. Enough to know not to trust much of anything I see, hear, or read from a paid author or commercial.

 

[K2Grey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mano Strange logic, you are saying that a word loses its -figurative- meaning because its used to describe everybody?... to me the group of people this word describes doesnt lose the characteristics in that description only because it describes everyone (or almost everyone) the only way to differentiate this term would be to recognize a certain group of people HAVING the characteristics being called "sheep" and a group that DOESNT have those characteristics beign "non-sheep" or something alike; not because the word needs to have a meaning..... (hint: it already does! )

Well, ok, everyone can be called a "sheep" in the sense that they are influenced by marketing. But it's not a real useful word for discussions when it applies to everyone. For example, if everyone is a sheep, the topic title "The irony of calling ipod users sheep" is bizzare, because one could as easily say "the irony of calling non ipod users sheep" and it would mean just as much.

 

[Mercuttio]

This thread seems rather strange to me, and that's most likely because I've owned iPods longer than most. I got my first mac in college when they went on sale for design, and had heard about the iPod via the mac webpage. I didn't care or know much about Hi-Fi at the time, I was using a nasty little Net-MD player and that god awful Sony software for it.

iTunes worked, the iPod was head and shoulders over every single other mp3 player I'd tried, and it was a hit with me. Nobody knew what it was then, or why my headphones were white.

Then a funny thing happened when I came back to school that next fall. I saw more of them. For nearly one year, at a HUGE university, I had been the only one to posess this device. As time went by, they became quite common. At first, I was really sort of pissed that everyone had discovered my magical audio secret. The iPod had been my constant companion and was very unique... now I couldn't look 10 feet without spotting a twin. After a while though, I grew up about it. It did what I wanted, it was easy to use, and it provided perfectly adequate sound quality for traveling in noisy areas.

I still use iPods. I've got a nano now, as I was very displeased with the sound quality from the Color models.