[AmanGeorge]

Correction, it will be a >$3k total experience if you want the perfect setup that's "worthy" of the $1k asking price. I can't imagine that it would sound bad, however, out of a mid-fi setup. Just because it's expensive, doesn't mean it's necessarily harder to drive than every other dynamic headphone out there, all of which can be driven competently by equipment costing less than $2k.

 

[ting.mike]

Saw this posted at the grado HF-2 thread:

When I joined, the DT770 was a huge stretch for me. Somehow within 6 months of that I'd owned PS1s, RS1s, HF1s, a dynahi, um2s, and er4ps, plus several portable amps.

it's more than i want to spend on a headphone and i still ordered it. lol.
the hf2 will be the most expensive headphone so far in my collection.

Get the picture now? we all love expensive, exotic stuff.

 

[zotjen]

Regardless of how much it costs to make and how much Sennheiser spent on R&D, we'd be hearing the same thing if they announced an initial price of $600 (Why is it so expensive? Does it really cost that much to make? I'll wait until the prices come down. Etc.) I'm sure Senn based the $1400 on numerous things including the cost of R&D and what the market will bear. This is not your run-of-the-mill headphone and I'm sure it has cost Senn significantly more to get it to the market than say the HD650. Maybe they could have charged $600 but doing so means it would take longer to recoup costs and turn a profit even if they could sell more units. Given how the headphone market is still advancing and technology is still improving, Senn may not be willing to wait (or risk) making a profit.

 

[recephasan]

It's not about how expensive the HD800 is. And even though it's ridiculous, they will have little trouble finding buyers.

But if you set your flagship product's price at $1400, then dishing out $600 for the next best thing does not seem all that excessive.

I remember back in 2001 when I paid $500 for my RS-1 (new, and yes, a rare deal), it was ridiculously expensive.
Not so anymore.

Same with Grado and their new additions, which make the $700 RS-1 which is almost as good a bargain!



This has worked for ages. Get the $250k car out to the autoshows and watch people feel good paying $80k for the "similar" feel.

 

[linuxworks]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yikes /img/forum/go_quote.gif Plus a high retail price will help keep the Riff Raff out.

yeah, that's always a GOAL when SELLING things.

(rolls eyes)

 

[zotjen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pabbi1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif All that aside, even if the hd800 does ever sell below $1k, you'll still need a $1k (or better) amp to match it, or, likely to be epic fail, or worse, a meh experience, oh, and source, cables, ad nauseum.

While I doubt a Cmoy will be able to properly amp the HD800, I don't think we've had enough info or reviews yet to determine how "high-end" the gear really needs to be. For example, iirc Jude had mentioned that the Gilmore Lite was able to handle the HD800 nicely. This is why I've been waiting for additional reviews before making a decision on ordering.

 

[ting.mike]

oh well... don't you all want an Apache, GS-X or a B52 someday?

 

[Edwood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by achristilaw /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sennheiser has spent Millions on development of the HD800 and they have yet to put one in our hot little hands. Is anyone a Machinist....I am, and at one time made molds. Do you see any parts hanging on the HD800 that are used on any other phone? NO! Think of the two years or more of Research and Development. Then molds need to be designed using a program, then machined (programmers make great money also). Then programs had to be made to machine the Mold's of ALL the other various pieces. And Mold makers make premium money for their designs....... You need machines to inject material into the molds and machines that do stamping and cutting operations. And the custom portion is Hand Work for assembly. Sennheiser has spent millions so far! Thats an all to brief sweep through the life of the phone. What about the PS-1000. It is using many parts that already exist on various other phones. Why would it cost even more than the HD800? Because artistically it sounds as if it should.. That's Why! Sennheiser will not break even for their Flagship when doing Handwork. Flagships are meant to forge new technologies, then those technologies trickle down to find them in more cost effective products later in time.

QFT

All these price speculations are pure wishful thinking.

 

[linuxworks]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmanGeorge /img/forum/go_quote.gif ^agreed. I'm sure Sennheiser has thought this through.

its gambling, not thinking. marketing is only part science; don't forget that its also part guess work and trial/error.

my take is that they gambled too high on price and they will lose (relatively). closer to a more magical $499 point and they'd have won more mind-share.

time will tell. but they are clearly guessing and gambling. you can't 'know' what the best price point will be - you can only take guesses and then measure the reality to validate or correct your model for the next go-round.

 

[Uncle Erik]

You can justify the $1,400 if you want, but you also have to look at the reality of the market. Sales of big ticket items are way off - what would have sold well in 2007 won't today.

Credit is tighter and people are saving money. Anecdotally, a cousin is an amateur race car driver. I always go to his local races and have for several years. That's a fairly big ticket hobby - at least $30k for the car, but associated costs, repairs, mechanics, fees, etc. push a season's budget to anywhere from $100k to over $250k.

At the races this year, attendance and participation are off 50% or more. I saw a similar slump at the big Fountain Pen show I went to this year. There were very few sales of the big ticket item and the 25-30 dealers I chatted with were very disappointed.

The upshot is, that no matter how well justified the $1,400 pricetag is, that big ticket luxury sales are in the toilet.

Now, if you've put millions into R&D, tooling, machining, marketing, etc., and the productb doesn't meet sales goals, what do you do?

You can spend more on marketing, hoping to sell more at the asking price. You can lower prices, hoping that increased sales will cover the difference, or you can shut down production. What's going to happen is anyone's guess.

The other problem is that the sinking economy is going to push down on used gear. If you've been laid off and need to keep a roof over your head and food in the cupboard, unloading audio gear is a good option. The subprime storm has mostly passed, but option ARMs and Alt-A loans are set to meltdown shortly. There should be a flood of audio and other collectibles and hobby gear on the market.

Those who have $1,400 disposable will (and already can) be able to get into speaker-fi for bargain prices.

So no matter how justified the $1,400 is, people aren't spending like they did three years ago. Further, those who can spend will have extremely attractive, less costly options. Sennheiser completely misjudged the market.

I think the HD-800 is a good product and one that I would enjoy. But I'm voting with my feet (and wallet) and headed for speaker-fi instead.

 

[Cankin]

I'm pretty confident that Sennheiser will have something more affordable coming in near future.

 

[ting.mike]

Yes, I certainly respect and understand your views as well..

Of course $1,400 is a lot of money, and as much as the figure is beneficial in building an image of "the best headphone of any kind" (as was stated by jude), it certainly won't have too many friends in this economy.

I wonder what will happen to the US economy if GM really finally file for bankruptcy.

 

[odigg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ting.mike /img/forum/go_quote.gif All this talk about the Senn Hd800 being too highly priced. Don't we realize that the audiophile market has always been in love with "expensive, exotic stuff"? A lot of the appeal of high end gear is tied very closely to the high-end price. Even before you hear the gear, you think it must be exceptional because the price is so high.

Yes! And I think the price can also color the reviews/comparisons a bit because few people want to say some other headphone at a much cheaper price sounds 90% the same as the $1400 they just spent.

But my experience with "high-end" headphones that there is usually some other headphone that sounds a lot like it for a half (or less) the the price. Some of the gap *might* then be filled in with EQing.

It's only a matter of time till we get some "sounds like" comparisons. If nothing else, I bet the HD800 will drive up the sales of some other headphones.

There is an interesting gap in Senns model numbers (HD650<->HD800) and pricing ($600<->$1400). I wonder that gap was created because of some future plans. We might have to wait a few years though.

The HD800 is showing the dividing line between people though. I'm with Uncle Erik in that $1400 can get me WAY too much other nice stuff for me to spend it on a headphone. Some people think it's worth it. That's fine. At least if a few people buy it there's a chance I will be able to hear it without flying to Headroom.

 

[AlanY]

Quote:

Originally Posted by odigg /img/forum/go_quote.gif There is an interesting gap in Senns model numbers (HD650<->HD800) and pricing ($600<->$1400). I wonder that gap was created because of some future plans. We might have to wait a few years though.

I think this is almost a given. The pricing and model numbers strongly suggest a "trickle-down" headphone will come someday.

 

[pabbi1]

While other media might be a bargain, it does not mean I have any more space, nor less barriers (like my wife HATING speakers), so, that is a red herring for some part of the buying population. The demand may be down for a year, or two, but Senn is a long haul player, noting the hd600 was released OVER 9 years ago, and still sells well today.