The GrubDAC
Mar 27, 2010 at 8:33 PM Post #256 of 1,079
hrm, since the pictures on the grubdac on the website weren't up to date, somehow I assumed that the layouts and schematics wouldn't be either.. but it seems they very much are >_< I guess I'm 0 for 2.


I don't have to redo the board layout, because the change I want to make can simply be added to the current layout. Nothing needs to be moved around.
EDIT: I've used photoshop to add the additions I want to the layout. With cobaltmute's permission, I'll post them.
It really is a few simple changes.
 
Mar 27, 2010 at 9:46 PM Post #257 of 1,079
I may be wrong here, but I don't think the reticence to supply layout files is for economic reasons. Personally I wouldn't do it because it introduces an ambiguity between something that is (presumably) well tested and carefully designed and another very similar looking board that may or may not be.

If there are 10 different boards out there that look nearly identical with slight variations that makes things confusing for DIYers who may not know much about circuitry. To me it's about quality control.
Imagine the headaches for the designer who has to try to assess whether variations on her/his board have compromised the performance.

There is one other thing: when you spend a large number of hours designing and laying out a PCB you may not feel good about having other people modify it.
 
Mar 28, 2010 at 2:12 AM Post #258 of 1,079
As I did read the original request earlier, but did not have time to respond and there is much other information brought forth since, I'm going to comment here.

There is three large parts to a project such as the grubDAC: the schematic capture, the BOM and the PCB.

The schematic tells you what is going on. Tells you what parts are connected to what. In the case of the grubDAC, I was able to start from an existing schematic, so it was fairly easy to do this portion.

The PCB is really where the real work is. You're trying to fit parts to the PCB size. This process of doing the PCB also drives the BOM as you are trying to get certain size parts to fit in certain areas. You may have to tweak the value of a part to get the footprints you want.

Compare the two following pictures:



There was a lot of work to get from the one board to the next - I have about 15 iterations in my files. That is why it took about three months of working with tomb to get the board into production at Beezar. Doing things like making sure it will fit in all the cases that we want it to, that every external corner of the board is curved, moving vias a mil at a time to ensure that they are placed in exactly the right spot, adjusting thermal reliefs to ensure that currents are going the best path, etc.

Now about releasing information to the community:

Schematics are released as they are important for builder to build and troubleshoot the boards that they are working on. amb also notes that they are great source of information to learn how a circuit works. I have learned tons by looking at the schematics of others. Take a look at a PCM2707. There really is a limited number of ways that you can implement it as a USB to I2S converter. So many peoples designs will look similar. The onus is for the designer however to understand the chip. You can carbon copy someone else's design or you can read the datasheet and figure it out yourself.

PCBs are again something that is "released". A designer lays out a board and then releases it to the community as a finished PCB. You see it for yourself. You can see how the traces are laid out and the footprints of the parts that were chosen.

I initially built the grubDAC for my use as a present to my dad. Turns out that some of you like the extra boards I had run. I can honestly say that if tomb hadn't offered to carry the boards at Beezar, I'd have likely killed the project after the protoboards as I'd move onto the next thing that I'd want to build. That has nothing to say about how I feel about the grubDAC (which is that it amazing DAC for its simplicity), but more to say about the fact that I personally don't want to have to do the work of selling PCBs day to day.

rds is right as well. I'm willing to support a board that is designed by me and provided by me. I've built them and I know they work. If someone takes a board of my design, does slight mods to it that do not work and passes it off as a grubDAC, that is not good for me or my boards.

As an illustration of that last point, you may want to read this (especially point 3 of the first post): DIYHiFi.org &bull; View topic - "What's all this IP stuff about, anyway?"

There are those that will take a posted design/schematic/board and try and make money of it and leave the support to others. I'm not really cool with that.

There is another thing as well. Beezar is setting up to make kits and ensure availability of parts for the grubDAC. This take money and not a small sum of it. While this really is not my expense, I'd like to continue dealing with Beezar and am not going to do anything to jeopardize that relationship.

Every designer has his own reason for doing things in a certain way. I highly doubt that you will get a board file out of any designer for any active design. There are a number of designs that have been "given" to the community (see Headwize), but you still have to do your own PCB for most of them.

So my take is that while a design is active with me, I'm going to keep the files private for many of the reasons noted above. I'll support, help develop it and make it better. If I take a design and consider it dead, I might just give all the files out to the community. Why not? Let others get into the details and learn from what I have done. But if I "dead" a project, it will be dead to me - no support, no involvement for some of the same reasons noted above.

At this point, the grubDAC is not dead, so the files stay with me. Doesn't mean I won't work with others for interesting ends.
 
Mar 28, 2010 at 2:23 AM Post #259 of 1,079
+++

Thanks for a great design!
 
Apr 7, 2010 at 10:33 AM Post #261 of 1,079
Two more live, thanks to a heads up from a friend. One was from scratch and one was a repair where the 2707 went bad... Boy these thing make good music!

Cobaltmute it was the 2720 that went bad, if you recall my cry for help a few months back, just thought I would let you all know.
 
Apr 7, 2010 at 1:22 PM Post #262 of 1,079
Are there any plans at Beezar to offer the hard-to-find GrubDAC parts a la carte in addition to the kits. For those who might want to add one to another build like the Max, but not need case, cable etc. Of course, I just realized that having those laying around as extras for other DIY might not be a big deal anyway. Still, just curious.

Thanks!
1,2
red-blue
 
Apr 7, 2010 at 1:36 PM Post #263 of 1,079
My understanding at this point is that Beezar has plans to take care of all builders
wink.gif
 
Apr 7, 2010 at 2:56 PM Post #264 of 1,079
Yes, cobaltmute and I worked out two options for kits that Beezar will be offering -
1) Kit to populate the basic PCB with a mini-USB connector, no outputs, no case. This will work out best for those of you building a grubDAC for the MAX V1.2 and the Carrie.
2) Kit with full parts, including wire, heat shrink, RCA plugs, USB pigtail, and case, for a grubCableDAC. IMHO, this would be the preferred stand-alone source option.
smily_headphones1.gif
 
Apr 7, 2010 at 3:26 PM Post #265 of 1,079
Quote:

Originally Posted by tomb /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Yes, cobaltmute and I worked out two options for kits that Beezar will be offering -
1) Kit to populate the basic PCB with a mini-USB connector, no outputs, no case. This will work out best for those of you building a grubDAC for the MAX V1.2 and the Carrie.
2) Kit with full parts, including wire, heat shrink, RCA plugs, USB pigtail, and case, for a grubCableDAC. IMHO, this would be the preferred stand-alone source option.
smily_headphones1.gif



Rad.
jecklinsmile.gif


Thanks! This makes an already outstanding project plan even better!
 
Apr 7, 2010 at 6:41 PM Post #266 of 1,079
Quote:

Originally Posted by tomb /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Yes, cobaltmute and I worked out two options for kits that Beezar will be offering -
1) Kit to populate the basic PCB with a mini-USB connector, no outputs, no case. This will work out best for those of you building a grubDAC for the MAX V1.2 and the Carrie.
2) Kit with full parts, including wire, heat shrink, RCA plugs, USB pigtail, and case, for a grubCableDAC. IMHO, this would be the preferred stand-alone source option.
smily_headphones1.gif



Great Idea
wink.gif
atsmile.gif
 
Apr 7, 2010 at 10:04 PM Post #267 of 1,079
Should this little DAC sound so good? I have to say I'm really impressed!

My reference source is a Pioneer PD-91 and the Grub holds its own at a different level.

I find the Grub's SQ is very transparent, detailed, airy, clean, and clear sounding. I'm noticing many more flaws in recording material. I'd say it's doing it's job very well so far.

Any other impressions guys?
 
Apr 7, 2010 at 11:38 PM Post #269 of 1,079
Quote:

Originally Posted by ziplock
Any other impressions guys?


I agree with your assessment. This is a mighty widget, a giant killer if you will. Not quite as musical as some, but that is a totally subjective opinion, and that some are all a LOT more $$$.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juaquin
I'm guessing the key factor is the PCM's availability?


I know Mouser is expecting a shipment in June... I have 5 on order.
 

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