[Bloodflame]

For those who despise Apple and/or iTunes (myself included), I recommend checking out MusicBee. You're welcome

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

 

[ProtegeManiac]

  Sorry if this is repetitive to other replies, I haven't gotten the chance to read the whole thread and I'm new here.
 
But if I'm not mistaken, you guys are trying to market this to "newbies" who want an inexpensive DAP that's apart from their phone. Someone who has an android or iPhone and is making the switch over, not the average Head-Fi user. Because of that, I think you're gonna have to focus as much on software as on hardware.
 
I saw it mentioned on the X5 thread, and I think it's worth repeating. Create a software, somewhat like iTunes that can at least transfer music over to the X1. I know drag and drop is easy enough, but I know tons of people who have an android phone but still carry around an iPod because of the convenience of the whole experience that Apple has set up.
What would be great would be something that transfers over everything from your iTunes library (Song names, artists, playlists, play counts, etc) and vice versa.

 
In addition to preceding replies...you must have also missed out on reading how many people rant about how much easier it is for some audiophiles to drag their audio files (sorry, couldn't resist), already arranged in Artist>Album>track_xx.flac folders and tagged with album art and info by opening Windows Explorer than screw around with a "manager" software which in a lot of ways works a lot more like bureaucratic red tape than actual "management."
 
For example, my dragged and dropped audio library works well using Media Monkey for Android and Windows (as well as every other player I install in either - PowerAmp, Foobar, etc); I can get up and shower while it copies. Install iTunes, and I either make a separate folder of 320kbps files for iTunes to easily sync, or I use 3rd party FLAC apps. Here's the catch - not only do I have to select the tracks by album batch and art if I'm using 3rd Party apps, but if I put too many in the que, iTunes crashes. Now, even if I go through that just so I don't clog my HDD with a bunch of compressed audio files just to baby iTunes, iTunes 11 is back with a vengeance with the problem that they did away with in iTunes9 - whether or not I assign it a folder of 320kbps files, or even an empty folder, it trolls through the rest of my friggin' HDD and HOGS all audio files - including FLACs - like a psychotic overly-attached girlfriend! FLAC files would start disappearing from MediaMonkey even while playing, iTunes still can't play them either ("but they're music, so they're mine and I'm the only music player you'll ever need!"), then after uninstalling iTunes everything goes back to normal. Kind of like if you knew you should put Glenn Close in Davey Jones' locker instead of just breaking up with with that creepy witch (if you can't tell which movie I've been referencing I might just be too old, but to rub in how horrible it was, she boiled the pet bunny in that movie).
 
Honestly, I still cannot understand why "convenience" and "iTunes" have to be in the same sentence when I can highlight one folder, hold shift or CTRL, click another folder, right click, click "Copy," go to another folder, right click, then click "Paste." That sounds longer as an instruction vs "click Sync" but in practice it works. I have an Android phone and an iPad (as I wrote above) and the allergic to microSD iDevice can't even display album art properly, even after FLACPlayer updated for iOS7 compatibility.
 
Basically, not all "newbies" are stuck with iTunes. They could be experiencing the same kind of difficulties, and as for some of us, we don't need to be newbies to be interested in a tiny high-res player, especially if you're coming from one of those tiny form factor+nice SQ+sucky interface players (I forgot what they were called, mostly because I wasn't interested in a player worth several hundred dollars but functioned like an iPod Shuffle).
 

  But if I'm not mistaken, you guys are trying to market this to "newbies" who want an inexpensive DAP that's apart from their phone. Someone who has an android or iPhone and is making the switch over, not the average Head-Fi user.
 
I know drag and drop is easy enough, but I know tons of people who have an android phone but still carry around an iPod because of the convenience of the whole experience that Apple has set up.
 
What would be great would be something that transfers over everything from your iTunes library (Song names, artists, playlists, play counts, etc) and vice versa.

 
The target market is only roughly referred to as "Newbies" and they aren't necessarily always just literally people totally new to audio, but just not necessarily "pros" in hanging out on Head-Fi. I know people who carry iPods for convenience too, but there are other details to that "convenience" for the ones I know:

1) Left-over, usually high-cap (80gb 5.5g, 160gb Classic) from before they had smartphones
2) They still have iPod compatible car audio receivers using ALAC, including the Alpine receivers that use the iPod as a storage device and stream digital audio to their car audio processor (or they have a Classic and a CMOY in their drawer at work)
3) Just because they think 160gb is convenient does not mean that they think iTunes is convenient compared to drag and drop (I belong to this group circa 5.5g 80gb)
4) Some (not all) who have difficulties with non-mainstream players tend to be the ones who aren't OC enough to tag properly and put each album in each folder, and those who aren't like this aren't all hanging out on Head-Fi. The ones I know have accounts in headphone forums because I (or others) egged them to (we know each other offline), but they don't hang out here (they hang out more in home speaker audio and car audio forums)

So basically there actually are people outside of Head-Fi who use portables, don't hang out here (and other headphone forums) as much, are OC enough about their libraries, and likely can be thrilled about a $100 player that has the same calibre DAC chip as his CDP at home (and reasonably well implemented in this circuit) that can power that IEM recommended by a friend who does hang out more on Head-Fi.

 

[Roboturner913]

For those who despise Apple and/or iTunes (myself included), I recommend checking out MusicBee. You're welcome

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

MusicBee is a fantastic program. I've tried just about every music management software there is and its easily the best.

 

[BillsonChang007]

Can't agree more with ProtegeManiac! Here's the thing, we want things to be done simple these days. Nothing fancy, if X1 or FiiO's future DAP requires me to install a progrMm for it, I would rather buy walkman for drag and drop. + adding a program to sync file is just way too bulky, my PC (I am sure some others as well) only have less than 500GB of space, I would rather use it more on music than sync programm xD

 

[LegitMaggit]

   
In addition to preceding replies...you must have also missed out on reading how many people rant about how much easier it is for some audiophiles to drag their audio files (sorry, couldn't resist), already arranged in Artist>Album>track_xx.flac folders and tagged with album art and info by opening Windows Explorer than screw around with a "manager" software which in a lot of ways works a lot more like bureaucratic red tape than actual "management."
 
For example, my dragged and dropped audio library works well using Media Monkey for Android and Windows (as well as every other player I install in either - PowerAmp, Foobar, etc); I can get up and shower while it copies. Install iTunes, and I either make a separate folder of 320kbps files for iTunes to easily sync, or I use 3rd party FLAC apps. Here's the catch - not only do I have to select the tracks by album batch and art if I'm using 3rd Party apps, but if I put too many in the que, iTunes crashes. Now, even if I go through that just so I don't clog my HDD with a bunch of compressed audio files just to baby iTunes, iTunes 11 is back with a vengeance with the problem that they did away with in iTunes9 - whether or not I assign it a folder of 320kbps files, or even an empty folder, it trolls through the rest of my friggin' HDD and HOGS all audio files - including FLACs - like a psychotic overly-attached girlfriend! FLAC files would start disappearing from MediaMonkey even while playing, iTunes still can't play them either ("but they're music, so they're mine and I'm the only music player you'll ever need!"), then after uninstalling iTunes everything goes back to normal. Kind of like if you knew you should put Glenn Close in Davey Jones' locker instead of just breaking up with with that creepy witch (if you can't tell which movie I've been referencing I might just be too old, but to rub in how horrible it was, she boiled the pet bunny in that movie).
 
Honestly, I still cannot understand why "convenience" and "iTunes" have to be in the same sentence when I can highlight one folder, hold shift or CTRL, click another folder, right click, click "Copy," go to another folder, right click, then click "Paste." That sounds longer as an instruction vs "click Sync" but in practice it works. I have an Android phone and an iPad (as I wrote above) and the allergic to microSD iDevice can't even display album art properly, even after FLACPlayer updated for iOS7 compatibility.
 
Basically, not all "newbies" are stuck with iTunes. They could be experiencing the same kind of difficulties, and as for some of us, we don't need to be newbies to be interested in a tiny high-res player, especially if you're coming from one of those tiny form factor+nice SQ+sucky interface players (I forgot what they were called, mostly because I wasn't interested in a player worth several hundred dollars but functioned like an iPod Shuffle).
 
 
The target market is only roughly referred to as "Newbies" and they aren't necessarily always just literally people totally new to audio, but just not necessarily "pros" in hanging out on Head-Fi. I know people who carry iPods for convenience too, but there are other details to that "convenience" for the ones I know:

1) Left-over, usually high-cap (80gb 5.5g, 160gb Classic) from before they had smartphones
2) They still have iPod compatible car audio receivers using ALAC, including the Alpine receivers that use the iPod as a storage device and stream digital audio to their car audio processor (or they have a Classic and a CMOY in their drawer at work)
3) Just because they think 160gb is convenient does not mean that they think iTunes is convenient compared to drag and drop (I belong to this group circa 5.5g 80gb)
4) Some (not all) who have difficulties with non-mainstream players tend to be the ones who aren't OC enough to tag properly and put each album in each folder, and those who aren't like this aren't all hanging out on Head-Fi. The ones I know have accounts in headphone forums because I (or others) egged them to (we know each other offline), but they don't hang out here (they hang out more in home speaker audio and car audio forums)

So basically there actually are people outside of Head-Fi who use portables, don't hang out here (and other headphone forums) as much, are OC enough about their libraries, and likely can be thrilled about a $100 player that has the same calibre DAC chip as his CDP at home (and reasonably well implemented in this circuit) that can power that IEM recommended by a friend who does hang out more on Head-Fi.

As obviously evident from the other replies aimed toward me, I get that this software wouldn't be aimed to an audiophile (even a new one). I just don't think that everyone who replied to me realizes the huge impact and number of followers that iTunes has, especially to the younger market that practically grew up with all of Apple's influence and simply don't know much else.
Instead of asking users to manually organize all there follows and to learn a whole new media player, I just think it would be advantageous to James and Fiio to come up with some easy software for transferring files 

 

[ProtegeManiac]

  As obviously evident from the other replies aimed toward me, I get that this software wouldn't be aimed to an audiophile (even a new one). I just don't think that everyone who replied to me realizes the huge impact and number of followers that iTunes has, especially to the younger market that practically grew up with all of Apple's influence and simply don't know much else.

 
Oh I realize the impact - they're usually the ones who dragged and dropped iTunes-tagged files not arranged in folders that don't show up properly on a DX50 or X3, so you certainly are on to something there; kind of like how Ferrari doesn't sell cars with a third pedal anymore, except their automated clutch likely works better than iTunes in terms of not confusing new users. However, that's for the iDevice crowd - how about the rest of the world who uses Android and therefore are likely to still be aware of how drag and drop works? And work it does - no fuss on my phone vs my iTunes-dependent iPad.* These are the people more likely to buy these devices, especially when those who just copied iTunes libraries with its more exclusive tagging system (and didn't organize them in neat folders) are likely to tell other Apple fans, by this point, to stay away from those clunky Chinese gadgets because thous shalt not speak of others idols before Steve Jobs, lest they burn in beta-testing hell.
 

   
Instead of asking users to manually organize all there follows and to learn a whole new media player, I just think it would be advantageous to James and Fiio to come up with some easy software for transferring files 

 

Plus that might actually increase development costs, and has a potential to screw up file management even more on these devices if it's not done right. Fiio isn't working with Apple's funds or their software developers (and like I said, even they can't make iTunes work 100% problem free, on top of the "What?!" ways they want stuff done), nor their expected sales volume, so in all likelihood just developing an iTunes-style management software can raise the retail prices.** Remember Apple's sales volume is so huge people can buy an iPod Mini or Shuffle at an airport vending machine even before there were charging stations. I don't expect a $100 X1 to be so widely available.
 
Also, even non-iDevice users use sync apps, but they're third party apps not made by the manufacturer of the device - like Foobar and MediaMonkey on the iPods. So even if these guys would prefer such a software, especially for first time set-up,*** MediaMonkey and Foobar can do that, and the latest beta version of MM does it wirelessly, and they work on a lot of devices. So in all likelihood, people with Fiio (and Ibasso) players can just politely make some noise on the MM and Foobar forums and support can be added for these devices later on, although I'm still really more for the "use player to format microSD card, insert microSD card into laptop, copy-paste into appropriate folder, reinsert into player and reboot" camp.
 


*meanwhile, my aunt who can't do drag and drop on her Powershot camera because she was used to the Sony suite (that hogs memory considering she doesn't even edit exposure) also can't figure out how to put music on her iPad even after I showed her how to use iTunes for that (and I ripped all her CDs too)
**AND be an even bigger headache for users - what if the developers actually make it worse than when it was on drag and drop? DnD isn't the inherent problem as to the file management woes of these new DAPs, and developing an iTunes-style software can actually make things worse at this point, when for the most part one really needs is to 1) organize and tag their files properly as Foobar and MediaMonkey do, whereas 2) faster scanning has a lot more to do with huge microSD files (and worse with thousands more tracks at higher compression rates) a management software. Heck even iTunes freezes while stuffign tracks into my iPad, and I have to pick one album at a time - I'm guessing it took a lot of work at Apple to get it to work right on a brand new 160gb Classic, and yet here we are on a 32gb iOS device.
***it's nice to hook up a new device to iTunes, take a shower, and come back with everything set-up, as when I upgraded from a 30gb 5g to the 80gb 5.5g. And then I realized how I have to fuss around with iTunes looking for the files I want to delete and replace given at some point you don't have enough storage space, or now, that I have to delete albums on FLACPlayer then add the replacements on iTunes. $#&^#$&$^#*(&@!!!! I can go to windows explorer, highlight and right click, then delete the files I don't want, paste the new folders, then reboot when I reinsert the microSD card and it works properly!
 
 
-----------------
 

Can't agree more with ProtegeManiac! Here's the thing, we want things to be done simple these days. Nothing fancy, if X1 or FiiO's future DAP requires me to install a progrMm for it, I would rather buy walkman for drag and drop. + adding a program to sync file is just way too bulky, my PC (I am sure some others as well) only have less than 500GB of space, I would rather use it more on music than sync programm xD

 
Not to mention that media player apps with wider format compatibility were able to sync iPods before. A simpler and less exclusive software (vs iTunes and iOS) combo would be more convenient. Imagine the not-so-closed software system of these new players, with Foobar and MediaMonkey later having sync support for them.

 

[BillsonChang007]

  As obviously evident from the other replies aimed toward me, I get that this software wouldn't be aimed to an audiophile (even a new one). I just don't think that everyone who replied to me realizes the huge impact and number of followers that iTunes has, especially to the younger market that practically grew up with all of Apple's influence and simply don't know much else.
Instead of asking users to manually organize all there follows and to learn a whole new media player, I just think it would be advantageous to James and Fiio to come up with some easy software for transferring files 

Then comes the question, why spend time working on a program for the X series when users could just drag and drop the file? It should be understood that younger generation pretty much holds gadget when they were young, it's really easy for them to learn how to drag and drop without iTunes. Soon they will realize, how much iTunes slow them down vs drag and drop. For me to sync an album of about 300MB~ size, with iTunes, it takes so much longer vs drag and drop. 
 
I am pretty sure most of the younger generation has Nitendo or Sony portable gaming devices these days, they don't need any software for transferring the files; just drag and drop. I am sure quite a big number of the younger generation has done that before. 
 
You mentioned that "...huge impact and numbers of followers that iTunes has, especially to the younger market that practically grew up with all of Apple's influence and simply don't know much else." If that is true[which I don't quite agree], do you expect them to install "an easy software for transferring files" themselves? Last but not least, imagine this, if all the gadget company in the world, all have their own software to transfer files into their device, does it mean we, the user/consumer, need to download lots of software for each and every gadget [from different company] we own? Won't our desktop will be loaded with tons of syncing software? "Oh, I need to transfer some files into my xxxxxxx, which software to use again?" 
 
Conclusion; Please don't design a specific transferring software for any of FiiO's X series DAP, including the X1! xD It would be a hassle for the users.

 

[sardar17]

  Then comes the question, why spend time working on a program for the X series when users could just drag and drop the file? It should be understood that younger generation pretty much holds gadget when they were young, it's really easy for them to learn how to drag and drop without iTunes. Soon they will realize, how much iTunes slow them down vs drag and drop. For me to sync an album of about 300MB~ size, with iTunes, it takes so much longer vs drag and drop. 
 
I am pretty sure most of the younger generation has Nitendo or Sony portable gaming devices these days, they don't need any software for transferring the files; just drag and drop. I am sure quite a big number of the younger generation has done that before. 
 
You mentioned that "...huge impact and numbers of followers that iTunes has, especially to the younger market that practically grew up with all of Apple's influence and simply don't know much else." If that is true[which I don't quite agree], do you expect them to install "an easy software for transferring files" themselves? Last but not least, imagine this, if all the gadget company in the world, all have their own software to transfer files into their device, does it mean we, the user/consumer, need to download lots of software for each and every gadget [from different company] we own? Won't our desktop will be loaded with tons of syncing software? "Oh, I need to transfer some files into my xxxxxxx, which software to use again?" 
 
Conclusion; Please don't design a specific transferring software for any of FiiO's X series DAP, including the X1! xD It would be a hassle for the users.

+1 MATE.
 
I had older sony walkmans with that useless sonic stage software which made any transfer a pain in the ass.
 
same goes for itunes,,,its just not convenient!!
 
drag and drop is the best method,period.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Originally Posted by BillsonChang007 /img/forum/go_quote.gif

...imagine this, if all the gadget company in the world, all have their own software to transfer files into their device, does it mean we, the user/consumer, need to download lots of software for each and every gadget [from different company] we own? Won't our desktop will be loaded with tons of syncing software? "Oh, I need to transfer some files into my xxxxxxx, which software to use again?"

 
Imagine when I had my first iPod at the time I had my last MiniDisc and a Sony-Ericsson phone. Three sync programmes on one dang notebook computer. With a little prodding, and given Fiio (and Ibasso) DAPs use OS simpler than iOS, Foobar and MediaMonkey could develop a syncing plug-in for those who prefer to use them that way, when they already can do that with Android.
 

Originally Posted by BillsonChang007 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Conclusion; Please don't design a specific transferring software for any of FiiO's X series DAP, including the X1! xD It would be a hassle for the users.

 
People seem to think that it's the lack of iTunes that makes for the file management issues on these DAPs, when the real problem for some users is iTunes - either its tags can't be read correctly or users too used to automated stuff don't organize their files well enough. Even MediaMonkey does near-perfect organization but I still have to double-check tags (mostly for multi-disc albums, so I can have Disc 2 starting off where Disc 1 left off on the track numbers) and album art. Why people think doing so is such a hassle is beyond me - that would only be the case if you're only about to rip your CD collection. If you've already done this right by now, then you only take an additional 5mins every time you rip or download a new album.

If Apple got anything "right," a device that uses only its own memory and goes to sleep instead of full shutdown sure knows where its files are a lot faster. Of course, for a lot of us, clamoring for an SD slot went hand-in-hand with "no iTunes!/drag-n-drop please!" given some people used to have multiple iPods to accomodate their entire collection (especially the 5g fans who thought the Classic absolutely sucked) or you'd have to get one of those wireless HDDs that don't work with the player app you actually like to use. In other words, a lot of people who want these DAPs tend to want other sorts of compromises, and who's to say the others who aren't keenly watching these developments would like the old compromises better?

Personally, there are two sorts of people who are really stuck on iTunes enough that some people think these DAPs need their own iTunes. The first sort is ranting about the file systems in the other threads, and if the iTunes-ish system screws up in any way, they would still say it sucks, iTunes rocks, and they'll say they were better off getting a CLAS or something. The second sort is the kind who hears a song, and wants it downloaded right away after Carson Daly or that other guy says you can download it after that last performance. Guess what - these devices have no WiFi, so they'd still just download that song on their iPhone or iPad and listen to it on their earbuds. Chances are about half of this sort, the younger generation LegitMaggit are referring to, are also tone-deaf teenagers screaming their heads off thinking One Direction is sooooo cool and don't have any idea how an electric guitar even works.

 

[BillsonChang007]

 tone-deaf teenagers screaming their heads off thinking One Direction is sooooo cool and don't have any idea how an electric guitar even works.

Another like for your comments  
 
that link above... wow.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

  Another like for your comments  
 
that link above... wow.

 
Saw it last night; my pre-pass out tired habit is to browse 9Gag and Cheezburger on my tablet, except anything funny enough wakes me the heck up

 
In any case that's why I'm not too positive about the wider understanding of the target market for the X1 - those sorts of people will never get anything that isn't the cool gadget, regardless of how it works. People really concerned about SQ will either buy a CLAS or so for their iDevice or just switch over to these devices smoothly enough (or not, then go back to an iPod+DAC+amp stack), the same way compact cams will lose to smartphones but hobbyists will still take to serious cameras, especially with compact ILC's, with realistic expectations that it either won't fit in their pockets or the ergos will be different. Even high performance compacts are back  thanks to the success of the X100 and X10, which by the way also take a pounding in the forums, but look at all the high-perfomance, non-ILC cams that came out or are still around.

 

[ZV3]

My opinion is that the X1 should focus on SQ, EQ, LOD and ease of use in that order. The more crap they try to stuff into this player, the more I think it may affect the SQ and obviously the price will balloon. Not sure why guys are asking for all these frills on this player, if you want all that get the X3, X5, DX50 or 100 or 1/2 dozen other players that have that stuff! The market for the X1 should be for people on the go that don't want frills, just the best SQ in a portable!
 
That's why the Fuze/Clip are so popular and STILL sell for about $100.00 USED on Ebay, ease of use and SQ.(The Fuze sells for that, I just sold one) I personally don't need tons of storage, just something upgradeable so the internal storage can be something like 16GB, long as it's expandable. Don't need album art, fancy sorting nor ANYTHING that is not SQ related. I don't even use 1/2 the crap on my Fuze and it's already the simplest, bare-bones UI on the planet!
 
The relative failure of most daps to me is lack of a decent user-selectable EQ. Shame on Ipod and Zunes and the others who refuse to do this. And LOD, I need that for my portable amp to get the best sound. Anyway Fiio, please keep it simple and ignore the push to stuff the "kitchen sink" into the X1, if you keep it simple you wont cannibalize the rest or your line and people can buy the X3's or 5's that will have all the bells and whistles if they so choose. I have not been excited as much with the X3 or X5, but I will buy the X1 the day it comes out! 

 

[JamesFiiO]

sure, the SQ is the most important thing. will update some newest information later.

 

[DrunkenTiger]

Awesome, can't wait for more news. I'm really pumped on getting one after the guinea pigs get their hands on theirs, and if it holds up I will be repping it like crazy to everyone I know who remotely likes music. Can't wait for something simpler to use when I just want to listen to some music at night or whatever without having to be blinded by my smartphone screen, be harassed with notifications, and just want to be able to hit a physical button to switch songs etc.

 

[BillsonChang007]

Everything seem positive so far. Is it possible to have coxial out for X1? Hehe