The Fiio A5 thread: an upgrade of E12A, MUSES02+LME49600, 800mW, 19Vp-p, 12 hours

[Dobrescu George]

 

  This is the FR of the E12 (the blue ones refers to the bass boost).
  I do not expect the A5 one (the direct, not bass boosted ones at least) to be much different.
  See? Flat as a pool table. If you think you can hear 0.1dB differences in a 90..100dB listening session, think again.
   
 
  Now lets look at a typical headphone FR (HD 650). Notice the scale on the Y axis.
   
   
 
  The combined FR is hence the combination of an almost constant FR function, with an FR function which looks like a rollercoaster.
  Which one do you think is going to influence more the final sound?

 


I'm not going to be able to get into all that, but I found that a 2db treble boost via the Rockbox option menu on my DAP brought the treble back to where it sounded like I'm used to, based on hearing live music all the time, from my previous Xin amp with 627 opamps, and from my home system.

And with that, I'm out. I've said my bit. You can either agree or disagree. It's subjective, so we're all right and we're all wrong.

 
Most of my headphones ask for a bump of 8 DB in treble to sound natural, with a neutral and flat source 

 

[ceemsc]

Most of my headphones ask for a bump of 8 DB in treble to sound natural, with a neutral and flat source 

FYI, I currently EQ boost @16khz +2dB for the Denon AH-D600 & +5dB for the Sennheiser HD700 using the FiiO E12.

However as previously mentioned that is more to correct the headphones frequency response rather than the amp assuming neither the E12 or A5 roll-off at those frequencies...

 

[Dobrescu George]

FYI, I currently EQ boost @16khz +2dB for the Denon AH-D600 & +5dB for the Sennheiser HD700 using the FiiO E12.

However as previously mentioned that is more to correct the headphones frequency response rather than the amp assuming neither the E12 or A5 roll-off at those frequencies...

 
 
Most headphones aren't flat, and we will need to use EQ with every headphone out there more or less. 
 
Only headphone so far that works without is ie800... Brilliant one. 

 

[fish1050]

   
 
Most headphones aren't flat, and we will need to use EQ with every headphone out there more or less. 
 
Only headphone so far that works without is ie800... Brilliant one

Headphones shouldn't be flat as they need to compensate for the fact that recordings are mastered for speaker playback.  Headphones need to be designed to compensate for this.  Flat sounding headphones like the KEF 500's sounded dead and lifeless to me.  I use my B&W P5 S2's without eq and they sound amazing to me.  I find trying to eq them deadens the sound.  
 
The same can be said for my AKG K240's and AKG K451's which I never eq.  I trust the headphone designers to know more about sound quality than I do.  I buy my DAP and headphones and when necessary portable amp as a set to make sure I get the best combination possible.

 

[Dobrescu George]

  Headphones shouldn't be flat as they need to compensate for the fact that recordings are mastered for speaker playback.  Headphones need to be designed to compensate for this.  Flat sounding headphones like the KEF 500's sounded dead and lifeless to me.  I use my B&W P5 S2's without eq and they sound amazing to me.  I find trying to eq them deadens the sound.  
 
The same can be said for my AKG K240's and AKG K451's which I never eq.  I trust the headphone designers to know more about sound quality than I do.  I buy my DAP and headphones and when necessary portable amp as a set to make sure I get the best combination possible.

 
No headphone designer will ever know more about your tastes and preferences than you do 

 
Tried those KEF, they were nowhere near neutral, waaaay not enough bass and waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay not enough treble. They were mid centric with a dry sound (which is good), but felt rolled off at both ends. 
 
As for the other thing, it depends on the album, some of them are mastered for speakers and some for headphones, using headphones. Depends on who the master is and how he works. Music is listened in 70% to headphones nowadays (arguably), so let's assume that some studios use headphones to master.
 
But yeah, headphones should have more bass and more treble than flat, and they should have some tonality things and acoustic properties to allow them to sound good. The correct way for me to phrase it would have been that no headphones so far besides ie800 actually fit with my tastes without heavy EQ. I admit that I don't EQ based on what would be neutral or natural but based on what the ear feels the best (which is after all, the best) 

 

[Vergil]

Thank God I haven't listened to you guys and upgraded from the E12A. Here's my short comparison between the E12A and The A5 after 2 days of use:
 

Mini Review

Equipment: FiiO X5II → FiiO L16 → FiiO A5 → Beyerdynamic T90
 

Highs

The E12A was a bit rolled off which helped with my T90s' piercing treble. The A5 brought back some of the sharpness but without the unpleasant piercing feel to it. So it's sharper, brighter with better detail retrieval, but still under control. Albeit not a day and night difference, it's a noticeable improvement.
 

Mids

About the same quality, however the A5 has a little more base and treble so there's less focus on mids now. I wouldn't say the mids are recessed, it's just that they don't stand out either.
 

Lows

Given the size and price range I wasn't expecting this, but damn, this thing is powerful. I'm not only talking about the lows here, the whole thing just feels more robust and solid.
 

General

Similar soundstage, not enough listening to tell the difference. The A5 is lush and transparent, the E12A in comparison sounds more grainy. The bass boost on the new FiiO feels more bloated but that might be because it already has more body. The E12A sounds better with the T90s on high gain while the A5 sounds better on low gain (though I need more listening to evaluate on this, so take this with a pinch of salt). On most tracks the A5 sounds noticeable cleaner and with some tracks the resolution seems to be higher (might have to do with the treble).

 

Conclusion

Overall it's an obvious upgrade from the E12A and I'm happy I made the decision. However I understand that you need to get the synergy right in order to appreciate the sound quality of the A5. I wouldn't be surprised if - for example - with a warm, laid back setup it sounded really off. The "compressed soundstage" criticism is something I do not understand. The E12A was one of the best amps for the price and in my opinion the A5 is the same, but better (and even cheaper). If you get the synergy right, there's no way you spent your money on the wrong product.

 

[Dobrescu George]

  Thank God I haven't listened to you guys and upgraded from the E12A. Here's my short comparison between the E12A and The A5 after 2 days of use:
 

Mini Review

Equipment: FiiO X5II → FiiO L16 → FiiO A5 → Beyerdynamic T90
 

Highs

The E12A was a bit rolled off which helped with my T90s' piercing treble. The A5 brought back some of the sharpness but without the unpleasant piercing feel to it. So it's sharper, brighter with better detail retrieval, but still under control. Albeit not a day and night difference, it's a noticeable improvement.
 

Mids

About the same quality, however the A5 has a little more base and treble so there's less focus on mids now. I wouldn't say the mids are recessed, it's just that they don't stand out either.
 

Lows

Given the size and price range I wasn't expecting this, but damn, this thing is powerful. I'm not only talking about the lows here, the whole thing just feels more robust and solid.
 

General

Similar soundstage, not enough listening to tell the difference. The A5 is lush and transparent, the E12A in comparison sounds more grainy. The bass boost on the new FiiO feels more bloated but that might be because it already has more body. The E12A sounds better with the T90s on high gain while the A5 sounds better on low gain (though I need more listening to evaluate on this, so take this with a pinch of salt). On most tracks the A5 sounds noticeable cleaner and with some tracks the resolution seems to be higher (might have to do with the treble).

 

Conclusion

Overall it's an obvious upgrade from the E12A and I'm happy I made the decision. However I understand that you need to get the synergy right in order to appreciate the sound quality of the A5. I wouldn't be surprised if - for example - with a warm, laid back setup it sounded really off. The "compressed soundstage" criticism is something I do not understand. The E12A was one of the best amps for the price and in my opinion the A5 is the same, but better (and even cheaper). If you get the synergy right, there's no way you spent your money on the wrong product.

 
 
This is exactly how it was supposed to sound as an upgrade from E12A 

 
Now for the bad side, some people want a bright setup, you see, that smooth top end won't cut it. 
 
As for the soundstage, there are two types of people: Those who want an airy one with lots of holographic effects, and those who want a dark soundstage that only lets the sound come true. A5 and E12A have a black background which in return will make the soundstage very large, but not airy at all, which based on ear shape and psychoacoustics will make the sound feel compressed. It should give a HD800 type of soundstage flavor to headphones, if this makes sense

 

[Light - Man]

Quote:Originally Posted by Vergil /img/forum/go_quote.gif
  Thank God I haven't listened to you guys and upgraded from the E12A. Here's my short comparison between the E12A and The A5 after 2 days of use:
 

Mini Review

Equipment: FiiO X5II → FiiO L16 → FiiO A5 → Beyerdynamic T90
 

Highs

The E12A was a bit rolled off which helped with my T90s' piercing treble. The A5 brought back some of the sharpness but without the unpleasant piercing feel to it. So it's sharper, brighter with better detail retrieval, but still under control. Albeit not a day and night difference, it's a noticeable improvement.
 

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
 
No offence taken Bro, many of us won't be listening to you either! 

 
BTW, I am not a fan of the Fiio L16 cable as I find it a bit bright and thins out the sound (IMO) - I prefer the older Fiio L2 (straight) which I still have and the Fiio L8 (angled)
 
I am surprised that the X5II on its own is not enough to drive the T90.
 
I am able to drive the Beyer T1 Gen 2 with my Hidizs AP100.
 
I agree that pairings makes a big difference to our perception of SQ - but at the moment I will keep well away from external amps and stick with a DAP and suitable head gear. 

 

[blackmondy]

E12 and not E12A?... 



It's not exceptional with soundstage, but it's the best I heard in it's price range, and an extremely good amp nonetheless. 

The brighter treble of E12 makes sound much more holographic to my ears (?) 

To me the E12 sounds dark and muddy.

 

[Erik_C]

Thank God I haven't listened to you guys and upgraded from the E12A. Here's my short comparison between the E12A and The A5 after 2 days of use:


 

Mini Review

Equipment: FiiO X5II → FiiO L16 → FiiO A5 → Beyerdynamic T90


 

Highs

The E12A was a bit rolled off which helped with my T90s' piercing treble. The A5 brought back some of the sharpness but without the unpleasant piercing feel to it. So it's sharper, brighter with better detail retrieval, but still under control. Albeit not a day and night difference, it's a noticeable improvement.


 

Mids

About the same quality, however the A5 has a little more base and treble so there's less focus on mids now. I wouldn't say the mids are recessed, it's just that they don't stand out either.


 

Lows

Given the size and price range I wasn't expecting this, but damn, this thing is powerful. I'm not only talking about the lows here, the whole thing just feels more robust and solid.


 

General

Similar soundstage, not enough listening to tell the difference. The A5 is lush and transparent, the E12A in comparison sounds more grainy. The bass boost on the new FiiO feels more bloated but that might be because it already has more body. The E12A sounds better with the T90s on high gain while the A5 sounds better on low gain (though I need more listening to evaluate on this, so take this with a pinch of salt). On most tracks the A5 sounds noticeable cleaner and with some tracks the resolution seems to be higher (might have to do with the treble).

 

Conclusion

Overall it's an obvious upgrade from the E12A and I'm happy I made the decision. However I understand that you need to get the synergy right in order to appreciate the sound quality of the A5. I wouldn't be surprised if - for example - with a warm, laid back setup it sounded really off. The "compressed soundstage" criticism is something I do not understand. The E12A was one of the best amps for the price and in my opinion the A5 is the same, but better (and even cheaper). If you get the synergy right, there's no way you spent your money on the wrong product.

 


Interesting findings. Who else with T90s loves the A5? And who else with ER4Ss doesn't love it so much?

 

[Brooko]

My review of the A5 - http://www.head-fi.org/products/fiio-a5-portable-headphone-amplifier/reviews/17530.
 
For the price - its a bargain.

 

[Badsam]

I'm currently using a Fiio L9 connected to a Fiio A5 which is connected to my decade old iPod video 5th generation and outputting to some Sennheiser HD650's. Using high gain with bass boost turned on.

I bought the headphones and the amp a week ago after probably a 7 year break from this site. Heard the E12 was a good cheap amp and the E12a was an improvement but designed for IEM's mainly - the A5 is apparently both amps combined into one.

Can't say if this is regarded as a good setup or not, but it definitely sounds better than when I used a Fiio L9 connected to a Fiio A3, connected to the same 5th gen iPod and playing out of Sennheiser HD600's a few years back.

 

[FiiO]

  My review of the A5 - http://www.head-fi.org/products/fiio-a5-portable-headphone-amplifier/reviews/17530.
 
For the price - its a bargain.

Dear Brooko
Thank you for sharing with us.

 

[fish1050]

   
No headphone designer will ever know more about your tastes and preferences than you do 

 
Tried those KEF, they were nowhere near neutral, waaaay not enough bass and waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay not enough treble. They were mid centric with a dry sound (which is good), but felt rolled off at both ends. 
 
As for the other thing, it depends on the album, some of them are mastered for speakers and some for headphones, using headphones. Depends on who the master is and how he works. Music is listened in 70% to headphones nowadays (arguably), so let's assume that some studios use headphones to master.
 
But yeah, headphones should have more bass and more treble than flat, and they should have some tonality things and acoustic properties to allow them to sound good. The correct way for me to phrase it would have been that no headphones so far besides ie800 actually fit with my tastes without heavy EQ. I admit that I don't EQ based on what would be neutral or natural but based on what the ear feels the best (which is after all, the best) 

I have to disagree with you on the KEF's as I owned them for a couple of weeks before returning them.  The lack of bass was because they have a flat response (no bass emphasis) and the same can be said for the treble.  Yes they were rolled off but the frequencies that were present were quite flat.  As for needing to eq to match tastes as I said I prefer to match headphones and DAP as a pair to make sure they meet my taste prior to purchase without needing equeing.  
 
I use to sell very high end audio products and never sold an equalizer as it ruined the purity of the sound.  The goal was always to eliminate anything extra from the signal path to get the purist sound and I have always followed that philosophy.  Living in Canada my access to DAP's is somewhat limited but I can audition most brands of headphones and do to get the best match.  

 

[NonXtreme]

Hi I'm planning to buy and use A5 amp mostly with E10K dac(line out) and most of the time with my ATH E40 IEM which is a bit sensitive IEM.
So there're two things that worry me and I wanna ask from you guy.
 
First is the channel imbalance at low volume knob. How bad is it?
 
Second is hiss/noise floor/hum. Honestly on E10K with headphone out it's good enough and there's no noticeable hum. But on my dragonfly 1.2, the hum is quite noticeable.
So how much is the noise on A5 with sensitive IEM? Is it a better than E10K? This worry me a lot since this amp is quite powerful.