Weird reply though when the ether regen uses a cheap femto clock. Maybe it gets the job done, but if it is so important then I would opt for something of higher performance and quality.
The Ethernet cables, Switches and Network related sound thread. Share your listening experience only.
- Thread starter bluenight
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Weird reply though when the ether regen uses a cheap femto clock. Maybe it gets the job done, but if it is so important then I would opt for something of higher performance and quality.
audiobomber
500+ Head-Fier
ER clocking system explained:
"The EtherREGEN utilizes differential, high-speed, very low jitter isolators followed by fully differential ultra-low jitter flip-flops that reclock the data with an ultra-low jitter local clock. Since both of these are fully differential there is no noise on the EtherREGEN’s ground-plane induced by upstream clocks. Additionally, all the clocking in the EtherREGEN is run with differential lines. It may sound simple, but in fact it was quite challenging. Fully differential low-jitter isolators and flip-flops are extremely rare, and they take multiple voltages and use lots of power. But we did eventually manage to find the right parts and make them work. There are many other unique technical features incorporated into the EtherREGEN. You can read about those on our web site."
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0...enson_EtherREGEN_white_paper.pdf?v=1583429386
- EtherREGEN has two isolated data/power/clock domains. Each isolated domain is re-clocked using 10GHz-capable ultra-low-jitter (less than 0.8 picoseconds) differential flip-flops. https://uptoneaudio.com/products/etherregen
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That’s a lot of marketing jargon and wishful thinking from @Superdad!
Let’s look at the measurements.
“Words like "jitter" are used in UpTone marketing so perhaps the improvement lies there. So let's run that test but go nuts by increasing FFT length to whopping 1 million points:
You see a difference? I sure as heck don't. “
“
That no matter how deep we dig down in the waveforms coming out of the DAC, no difference exists between a cheap, generic switch and UpTone EtherRegen. Even when going down to incredible -160 dB which is equivalent to a 27 bit audio word (3 bit more than any 24 bit content), there is still no difference.
Measurements conclusively demonstrate that EtherRegen did not change jitter, noise or distortion of the DAC. It further had no impact on its clock speed, or output voltage.”
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audiobomber
500+ Head-Fier
I like to see measurements, but listening to my music, in my system, in my room, for an extended period, is the only measure I trust.That’s a lot of marketing jargon and wishful thinking from @Superdad!
Let’s look at the measurements.
“Words like "jitter" are used in UpTone marketing so perhaps the improvement lies there. So let's run that test but go nuts by increasing FFT length to whopping 1 million points:
You see a difference? I sure as heck don't. “
“
That no matter how deep we dig down in the waveforms coming out of the DAC, no difference exists between a cheap, generic switch and UpTone EtherRegen. Even when going down to incredible -160 dB which is equivalent to a 27 bit audio word (3 bit more than any 24 bit content), there is still no difference.
Measurements conclusively demonstrate that EtherRegen did not change jitter, noise or distortion of the DAC. It further had no impact on its clock speed, or output voltage.”
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And you have the ether regen as your heater to keep you warm!
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audiobomber
500+ Head-Fier
And you have the ether regen as your heater to keep you warm!
It does run hot, but that is not a concern according to Uptone. I did however mount a heat sink on the casing for extra insurance, because I use a 12V supply and an SFP, which create additional heat..
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Superdad
Member of the Trade: UpTone Audio
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No “marketing jargon“ at all! I hate such, though we see a lot of it from the marketing departments of all sorts of firms who are afraid to actually explain their circuits and offer no technical details about how/why things work or matter.
The ONLY reason jitter/phase-noise matter with packet-data interfaces (Ethernet, USB, etc.) is because of the propagation of ground-plane noise—induced by the chips themselves, the power networks, and also coming in as common-mode noise on the cables. These effects readily convert back and forth between between AM (amplitude modulation) and PM (phase modulation).
We attempt to educate about all these things in our two papers:
“Perturbations on digital signals…”
and
“Clock considerations…”
I won’t dignify Amir’s (@ ASR) weak attempts at measuring at the analog output to prove that almost nothing upstream in digital audio matters. Given the thousands of products (not just from us), and tens of thousands of people using and reporting about them (streamers, servers, switches, software, cables, power supplie, etc.), Amir has become the audio internet equivalent of a climate change denialist.
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I don’t dispute this at all.
If the Ether Regen did ANYTHING to help/reduce these noises then the measurements would show that it did.
It’s easy to call measurements “weak”. Can you supply the “strong” measurements then? Or just more words and marketing and pseudo science like the climate change hoaxers?
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bpcans
Headphoneus Supremus
Excellent thread everyone. I must be lucky in that none of the powered boxes in my listening chain become even slightly warm to the touch, other than my TT2 DAC which runs barely above room temperature, which is nice. One thing that I‘ve found out putting together stereo systems since the late 1960’s is that excessive heat coming from anywhere is a bad thing and should be avoided at all costs. So the heat coming from the EtherRegen gave me pause after hooking it up, even though several people mentioned that it shouldn’t affect overall sound quality.
There are many folks who’ve found @Superdad Uptone EtherRegen to be very helpful in their systems. But with my setup my expert sound tester couldn’t discern any appreciative improvement when we tried one. So I’m still using two relatively inexpensive and readily available network switches with a Network Acoustics ENO System Ag between my router and my server, still waiting for that one-box streaming solution that doesn’t cost as much as a Grimm MU1.
There are many folks who’ve found @Superdad Uptone EtherRegen to be very helpful in their systems. But with my setup my expert sound tester couldn’t discern any appreciative improvement when we tried one. So I’m still using two relatively inexpensive and readily available network switches with a Network Acoustics ENO System Ag between my router and my server, still waiting for that one-box streaming solution that doesn’t cost as much as a Grimm MU1.
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greenblured
100+ Head-Fier
Two new switches from Gustard available for pre order. The N18 and N18 PRO.
https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/ethernet-rj45-cables/gustard-n18-silver-p-18651.html
https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/ethernet-rj45-cables/gustard-n18-pro-silver-p-18653.html
https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/ethernet-rj45-cables/gustard-n18-silver-p-18651.html
My bud has had the N18 running for the past 2weeks to his Teradak T-S211 OCXO. Says he hears zero difference than his $50 FMC but it “looks a lot prettier” lol.Two new switches from Gustard available for pre order. The N18 and N18 PRO.
https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/ethernet-rj45-cables/gustard-n18-silver-p-18651.html
https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/ethernet-rj45-cables/gustard-n18-pro-silver-p-18653.html
I agree!
Good product but expensive however 4 output and clock input is big plus.
Which clock are they using internally. TeraDak although has only 1 output but comes with OCXO at less than half the asking price.
Which clock are they using internally. TeraDak although has only 1 output but comes with OCXO at less than half the asking price.
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kingoftown1
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Gustard's gone from early 2000s style cable-boxes to mid/late 90s....
lol yeah the black looks nicerGustard's gone from early 2000s style cable-boxes to mid/late 90s....
https://www.dela-audio.com/product/c1/
Melco C1 D20, finally a dedicated SFP cable
Melco C1 D20, finally a dedicated SFP cable
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