[TRHH]

from which cable manufacturer of Belden Catsnake 6A did you purchase?

ghentaudio have some great Belden Catsnake 6A

 

[audiobomber]

My experience with ethernet cables:

I found a couple of generic cables that sound quite good, and I still use in my lower-tier systems: Yauhody CAT8 from Amazon is very nice for a system that leans too bright. If your system is on the darker side, try Tera Grand CAT7. I like these better than all the generic CAT5e, CAT6, CAT6a and CAT7 cables I tried, from Amazon Basics, UGreen, Monoprice, included freebies, etc. I've collected and trialled a shopping bag full of them in the six years that I've used network audio. I have several network audio systems, so I do need a lot of cables.

More costly options:
Audioquest Pearl - Boring sound, lacks dynamics and detail. Not shield-tied, and not recommended.
Blue Jeans Cable CAT6a - Musically good, but bass is a bit loose, soundstage is constricted and transients are softened slightly. Not shield-tied, which can be an advantage, depending on the grounding situation.
Supra CAT8 - Tight bass and revealing treble but the bass range is shelved down, causing a bright and uninvolving sound. I am not a fan.
Audio Sensibility Supra Super - Same downsides as Supra CAT8, but more dynamic transient performance.
Melco C100 - Sounds very much like Supra CAT8, but a bit messy. May outperform Supra where there is a shield-tie grounding issue, but I was disappointed in this cable, I expected more.
Furutech LAN-8 NCF - Beats all of the above cables. Good detail, soundstage and musicality, leans slightly warm, bass is a bit loose.
Audio Sensibility Signature - Excellent detail, bass is very tight and present, treble is very revealing and well balanced. Overall sound is cool, detailed and fast, which may or may not suit a particular system. Note, the AS Signature cable is 100mbps, not gigabit.
Sablon 2020 - Superb detail, instrument separation and soundstage. Rich and warm sound, which may or may not suit your system. Not shield-tied.

The chain feeding my main system:
QNAP NAS > Furutech LAN-8 NCF > Silent Angel Bonn N8 > Furutech LAN-8 NCF > opticalModule Deluxe v2 > Corning single-mode fiber > etherREGEN > exaSound PlayPoint > exaSound e32 Mk-II
Power conditioning by iFi Audio and Furutech. All devices excepting the NAS have linear power supplies and Ghent Audio StarQuad DC cables. SFP's are Finisar FTLF1318P3BTL. My Furutech cables are modified; both use Telegartner connectors, one has the shield-tie lifted at one end.
(See my follow-up post regarding shield-tied grounds.)

Every ethernet cable in the system matters, even the ones upstream of the fiber conversion. I was using Furutech LAN8 NCF in all three positions. Replacing the cable nearest the DAC with the AS Signature brought greater instrument separation and perfected the tonality. I tried the Sablon in last position in the chain, but it was too dark, especially compared to the AS Signature.
Initially I was wowed by the extra heft to the sound, but in the end the Sablon was too dark for my system.

I intend to stay with modified Furutechs and Audio Sensibility and will not look any look further. I am extremely pleased with this combo, especially since adding the Supanova power cable to my Furman Elite-15 PFI conditioner, which feeds the ER, streamer, DAC and subwoofer crossover.

 

[TheR0v3r]

Thank you for clarifying where you placed the Inakustik Premium cable.

Aha, when comparing my setup I do see a few similarities to yours [Belden & iSilencer], as well as a number of differences.

My path is ...
Asus Modem > Belden Catsnake 5e -> iFi LAN iSilencer -> Firewall/Router -> iFi LAN iSilencer -> Belden Catsnake 5e -> MikroTik Switch -> Corning MultiMode Fibre with Finisar SFP modules -> UpTone Audio EtherREGEN -> Belden Catsnake 5e -> Naim Atom HE -> Focal Utopia 2022



It happens , I have gone down this path sometimes too .



Too true, more expensive is not always better.
For my switch I purchased some new optical SFP modules $80 each ... and I actually like my 2nd hand Finisar SFP modules which only cost $8 each a whole lot better!
Fully agree with your thoughts above regarding your process, sounds wise.

The other thing I liked was the range of music you selected to test.
Some people review using tracks which are esoteric, yet you used a range of music from which I believe a lot of people would have familiarity with at least 1 or 2 tracks at a minimum.

The only makers that I know of who make ethernet cables with Belden Catsnake 6A, are Designacable in the UK, and also Ghent Audio.
I already have the Belden Catsnake Cat 5e version by Designacable, while I am happy with the Belden cable, not that much of a fan of the sentinel connectors that are used [I have freebie cables that are less fussy and seem to make a more solid connection and that "clink" sound when attached correctly. When attached/removed a couple of dozen times, the sentinel connectors seem to experience a bit of wear].

I am going to do a bit more research, despite my very slight misgivings regarding sentinel connectors I will probably go with Designacable again [great build & service].
My previous interaction with Designacable are very positive, though this time I will go for Belden Catsnake 6A with "floating" option for shield.

@TheR0v3r from which cable manufacturer of Belden Catsnake 6A did you purchase?

Thanks again.

Quick reply now, later a little longer because I’d like expand on your insightful comments.

The Belden Catsnake 6A is purely a coincidence. My local shop has somehow ended up with it.

 

[audiobomber]

Regarding shield-tied grounding:
All CAT8, and some CAT6a and CAT7 cables, have metal shields that are tied to ground at both ends. Ground potential current will not cause hum, as in an analog system, but can cause mushy bass, harsh treble and/or constricted soundstage.
You can check whether the cable shield is grounded by connecting a continuity meter to the metal on the connectors. If your ethernet cables have plastic connectors, they are not shield-tied. If the device you are connecting to has plastic ports with no metal, the ground will be lifted. If you aren't sure whether the ports are grounded, you can test by connecting a pair of cables that you know are shield-tied, and checking for continuity from one cable to the next. I use various methods to eliminate shield grounding issues:

I've modified STP and S/FTP cables by removing the metal wrap from one end, leaving only the non-conductive plastic. I've modified CAT8 cables by replacing one metal RJ45 connector with a generic plastic connector. I had one of my Furutech cables modified, upgrading both connectors with Telegartners and lifting the ground on one end. In some cases I use a LAN Isolator to break the ground connection, a strategy also used by SOtM.

Sometimes I use shielded and grounded cables. The EtherRegen B-side port is one situation where this is acceptable, due to its moat. I use a shield-tied cable between my switch and FMC, but both devices are electrically connected to the same ground point. Also, I only allow one cable with shield-tied grounds to be connected to any device. Other connected cables are UTP or have the shield-tie broken by one of the methods described above, which blocks shield current coming from a third device.

Some manufacturers recommend CAT6 cables, to eliminate the possibility of a shield-tied cable messing up the sound. IME, shielded cables sound best, and it is worthwhile to experiment.

 

[Tubewin]

My experience with ethernet cables:

I found a couple of generic cables that sound quite good, and I still use in my lower-tier systems: Yauhody CAT8 from Amazon is very nice for a system that leans too bright. If your system is on the darker side, try Tera Grand CAT7. I like these better than all the generic CAT5e, CAT6, CAT6a and CAT7 cables I tried, from Amazon Basics, UGreen, Monoprice, included freebies, etc. I've collected and trialled a shopping bag full of them in the six years that I've used network audio. I have several network audio systems, so I do need a lot of cables.

More costly options:
Audioquest Pearl - Boring sound, lacks dynamics and detail. Not shield-tied, and not recommended.
Blue Jeans Cable CAT6a - Musically good, but bass is a bit loose, soundstage is constricted and transients are softened slightly. Not shield-tied, which can be an advantage, depending on the grounding situation.
Supra CAT8 - Tight bass and revealing treble but the bass range is shelved down, causing a bright and uninvolving sound. I am not a fan.
Audio Sensibility Supra Super - Same downsides as Supra CAT8, but more dynamic transient performance.
Melco C100 - Sounds very much like Supra CAT8, but a bit messy. May outperform Supra where there is a shield-tie grounding issue, but I was disappointed in this cable, I expected more.
Furutech LAN-8 NCF - Beats all of the above cables. Good detail, soundstage and musicality, leans slightly warm, bass is a bit loose.
Audio Sensibility Signature - Excellent detail, bass is very tight and present, treble is very revealing and well balanced. Overall sound is cool, detailed and fast, which may or may not suit a particular system. Note, the AS Signature cable is 100mbps, not gigabit.
Sablon 2020 - Superb detail, instrument separation and soundstage. Rich and warm sound, which may or may not suit your system. Not shield-tied.

The chain feeding my main system:
QNAP NAS > Furutech LAN-8 NCF > Silent Angel Bonn N8 > Furutech LAN-8 NCF > opticalModule Deluxe v2 > Corning single-mode fiber > etherREGEN > exaSound PlayPoint > exaSound e32 Mk-II
Power conditioning by iFi Audio and Furutech. All devices excepting the NAS have linear power supplies and Ghent Audio StarQuad DC cables. SFP's are Finisar FTLF1318P3BTL. My Furutech cables are modified; both use Telegartner connectors, one has the shield-tie lifted at one end.
(See my follow-up post regarding shield-tied grounds.)

Every ethernet cable in the system matters, even the ones upstream of the fiber conversion. I was using Furutech LAN8 NCF in all three positions. Replacing the cable nearest the DAC with the AS Signature brought greater instrument separation and perfected the tonality. I tried the Sablon last in the chain, but it was too dark, especially compared to the AS Sign. I used it between the NAS and N8 for a couple of weeks. Initially I was wowed by the extra heft to the sound, but in the end it was too dark for my system. I intend to stay with modified Furutechs and Audio Sensibility and will not look any look further. I am extremely pleased with this combo, especially since adding the Supanova power cable to my Furman Elite-15 PFI conditioner, which feeds the ER, streamer, DAC and subwoofer crossover.

Nice write up.

I actually thought that the supra cat8 was overly warm(to my tastes) when I had it connected directly to the jcat card.

 

[audiobomber]

Nice write up.

I actually thought that the supra cat8 was overly warm(to my tastes) when I had it connected directly to the jcat card.

Compared to what others?
Is it possible you had a grounding issue? What was the terminating device? Were the JCAT and terminating device plugged into the same conditioner or electrical circuit?

 

[Tubewin]

Compared to what others?
Is it possible you had a grounding issue? What was the terminating device? Were the JCAT and terminating device plugged into the same conditioner or electrical circuit?

Standard generic ethernet cat8, sotm dcbl7, neotech neet 3008, pangea premier se ethernet cable, and the jcat signature gold lan cable.

No grounding issue that I'm aware of.
Terminating device? Do you mean the device before the jcat? If so, that would be the etherregen.
The jcat and etherregen is not plugged into the same conditioner. The jcat is being powered by the jcat optimo 3 duo into the psm156 power conditioner, while the etherregen is being powered by a ferrum hypsos lps directly into a wall socket.

It's only overly warm when I have it directly connected into the jcat by the way. If I have the supra connected before the etherregen, it balances out better. Only when it's the last cable in the chain, do I feel that it's overly warm.

 

[Duke40]

Blue Jeans Cable CAT6a - Musically good, but bass is a bit loose, soundstage is constricted and transients are softened slightly. Not shield-tied, which can be an advantage, depending on the grounding situation.

This matched my experience exactly.

Furutech LAN-8 NCF - Beats all of the above cables. Good detail, soundstage and musicality, leans slightly warm, bass is a bit loose.

I will have a read up on these.

The chain feeding my main system:
QNAP NAS > Furutech LAN-8 NCF > Silent Angel Bonn N8 > Furutech LAN-8 NCF > opticalModule Deluxe v2 > Corning single-mode fiber > etherREGEN > exaSound PlayPoint > exaSound e32 Mk-II
Power conditioning by iFi Audio and Furutech. All devices excepting the NAS have linear power supplies and Ghent Audio StarQuad DC cables. SFP's are Finisar FTLF1318P3BTL.

For my network rack I too went with power conditioning by iFi Audio [PowerStation, GroundHog+ connecting switch to PowerStation, 3 x AC iPurifiers].
All devices except Amplifi Alien WiFi router have LPS [modem, router, switch, Nucleus].
I then run 2 multi-mode fiber to my AV rack, which is powered by a 3000W balanced power supply, so I have a good base for isolation and minimising ground loops between the racks.

I think I have some of the those same single mode Finisar SFP's, your post has prompted me to give single mode another go this weekend as an experiment.

The EtherRegen B-side port is one situation where this is acceptable, due to its moat.

ATM I am more focussed on replacing the LAN cables on my EtherRegen B-side port.
This is where I am thinking about the Belden Catsnake 6A, or the Furutech LAN-8 NCF that you mentioned.

Some manufacturers recommend CAT6 cables, to eliminate the possibility of a shield-tied cable messing up the sound. IME, shielded cables sound best, and it is worthwhile to experiment.

That is why [manufacturers recommendation] I have generally only used Cat 5e, 6, or 6A [no shield tied].

Most certainly is worthwhile to experiment: sometimes an improvement, sometimes not, sometimes no change at all.
Though as I stream majority of my music and movies, have gained worthwhile improvements by spending effort on the network side of things.
Previously my focus has been primarily on power and isolation/vibration aspects for improving audio/video, I now add effort for focus on the network side.
It is worth it.

@audiobomber thank you for your posts [have re-read recent ones a couple of times, a lot of good info]. I have found them very helpful.

 

[sajunky]

Also, I only allow one cable with shield-tied grounds to be connected to any device. Other connected cables are UTP or have the shield-tie broken by one of the methods described above, which blocks shield current coming from a third device.

Instead of leaving shield open one side, you can terminate for HF with a capacitor. It avoids negative effects of leaving shield open. Chose a value experimentally, between ceramic 100pF and 10nF. Use styroflex cap for the upper range and connect external terminal to a ground.

One of your cable is 100Mbps. It is a good idea to use a cable with 2 pairs, limiting a link speed if you do DIY cable. It can be rewarding.

 

[TheR0v3r]

If you feel it's too risky for your components because of the inflexibility, I understand if you choose not to attempt connecting the 1008. I can't put the neotech or sotm cables in many different configurations because of the inflexibility as well.

My lan chain is jcat xe -> sotm dcbl7 -> etherregen -> sfp fiber -> lhy fmc -> neotech 3008 -> router -> pangea ethernet cable -> modem
Router and modem are powered through the ps stellar 3 power plant
Etherregen powered by a ferrum hypsos directly into the wall
lhy fmc is powered through the psm156

Tonight I had a go at connecting the 1008, but pulled the plug on that project. It meant having to rearrange my setup to make room for the inflexible Neotech 1008... Why so unwieldly???

 

[Tubewin]

Tonight I had a go at connecting the 1008, but pulled the plug on that project. It meant having to rearrange my setup to make room for the inflexible Neotech 1008... Why so unwieldly???

Yeah. I can't blame you for that. The 3008 is probably just as inflexible. Thanks for trying though!

 

[TheR0v3r]

I’m so happy that you appreciated the choice of tracks

The other thing I liked was the range of music you selected to test.
Some people review using tracks which are esoteric, yet you used a range of music from which I believe a lot of people would have familiarity with at least 1 or 2 tracks at a minimum.

And the idea was exactly as you explained it: to use tracks that a lot of people hopefully have some familiarity with.

I wanted to share why I choose some of the tracks:

• ”Breed” - Nirvana:
• ”Highwomen” - The Highwomen: A wonderful song with four great singers! A good system should be able to present their individual tone and each voices unique timbre.
• ”Little Things” - Big Thief: Just a brilliant song
• ”Magma” - Yello: Superb production by Boris Blank. Good for evaluating alot of things, amongst them
• ”Poéme Symphonique for 100 Metronomes” - Francoise Terrioux: A little odd and AFAIK not a very common occurence on the ”test track” lists. It works really well to judge a systems abilty present a coherent soundstage. If the soundstage isn’t coherent the brain can’t process the sound of the metronomes and instead ”noise” becomes a major part of the sound. With my HD 600 it only works when using crossfeed…
• ”Rosanna” - Toto: the Usual Suspect, but for a good reason. It works well to get a quick feel for the tonal balance (bass-midrange-treble levels)
• ”Runaround Man” - Motörhead
• ”Soothing (Live)” - Laura Marling
• ”The Crusader Prelude” - Saxon
• ”Walking with Elephants” - Ten Walls: If the tonal balance leans bright, lacking bass or dynamics the ”beat” set by the elephants can be lost, especially when the hihats come in. Some call it PRaT.
• ”Work Me” - Octo Octa

 

[TRHH]

I use AIM NA9 for the "last mile" - From FMC to DAC:

Torben

 

[audiobomber]

It's only overly warm when I have it directly connected into the jcat by the way. If I have the supra connected before the etherregen, it balances out better. Only when it's the last cable in the chain, do I feel that it's overly warm.

Assuming you are connected to the recommended EtherREGEN B-side, there is no grounding issue. Weird though, that in three of my systems and in a friend's very expensive system, the Supra CAT8 definitely sounds lean and bright.

There's a lot still to learn about network audio, the magazines are unreliable due to inexperience, and measurements don't seem to correlate at all with sound quality.

 

[audiobomber]

Instead of leaving shield open one side, you can terminate for HF with a capacitor. It avoids negative effects of leaving shield open. Chose a value experimentally, between ceramic 100pF and 10nF. Use styroflex cap for the upper range and connect external terminal to a ground.

What negative effect do you suppose there is to lifting the shield at one end? This technique is used in Melco, Sablon and Audioquest ethernet cables, among others I'm sure.

One of your cable is 100Mbps. It is a good idea to use a cable with 2 pairs, limiting a link speed if you do DIY cable. It can be rewarding.

I have had two Audio Sensibility Signature cables in-house, one Gigabit and double the girth, and the 100Mbps that I own. The Gigabit cable sounds brighter, which pushes detail forward, but the 100Mbps sounds a smoother, warmer and a lot better to me. There are manufacturers who favour 100Mbps operation, including SOtM, Melco, Audio Sensibility and Uptone Audio.

Interesting though that Network Acoustics has moved to Gigabit for the Muon Pro and the coming revised EtherREGEN is expected to be Gigabit.