The Ethernet cables, Switches and Network related sound thread. Share your listening experience only.

Apr 12, 2024 at 4:58 AM Post #2,101 of 2,516
Request acknowledged 🙂. UIP is a couple of weeks old. 1000 hours is 6 weeks of 24/7.
I am not committing to this btw, that is a long period of time, just acknowledging the request.

The owner of the Phoenix who has very kindly loaned it to me for a few weeks would be better placed to do any longer term comparisons in due course should he wish to do so. Thanks again!

For the time being I’m just going to enjoy having a good listen but will start a new thread on the UIP in coming days.
 
Apr 12, 2024 at 5:12 AM Post #2,102 of 2,516
I am not committing to this btw, that is a long period of time, just acknowledging the request.

The owner of the Phoenix who has very kindly loaned it to me for a few weeks would be better placed to do any longer term comparisons in due course should he wish to do so. Thanks again!

For the time being I’m just going to enjoy having a good listen but will start a new thread on the UIP in coming days.
I read that the Shunyata Omega USB cable eliminates the Innous Reclocker. Maybe the owner should look into this cable so you can burrow it longer?😅🤣👍
 
Apr 12, 2024 at 5:36 AM Post #2,103 of 2,516
Lol. Anywaay… back slightly on topic, just switched my Finisar AOCs which came well recommend in their own right on several forums for the Finisar 1318 SFPs + Corning single mode cable. Goodness, a non-subtle uptick in dynamics, resolution and soundstage precision if perhaps a touch less fluidity and warmth than the AOCs. Do SFPs burn in? Do androids dream of electric sheep? My hifi over the last week or so with the UIP, Afterdark Rosanna, Phoenix USB and now these SFPs has gone into hyperdrive… listening to Bluetech’s Elementary Particles it’s like Chewie has punched it and I’m flying through a field of elongated stars. Only had a couple of APAs in case you’re wondering.
 
Apr 12, 2024 at 6:15 AM Post #2,104 of 2,516
@Jake2
So based on your experimentations is it more cost effective having these tweaks rather than a new upgraded DAC having comparable SQ?
To what degree would say in (%) will you be saving if ever?

Just a thought...
 
Apr 12, 2024 at 10:20 AM Post #2,105 of 2,516
Do SFPs burn in?
Yes, SFPs do require break-in. It's a miniature circuit board, with traces, surface mount resistors, capacitors, and more.
 
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Apr 12, 2024 at 10:17 PM Post #2,106 of 2,516
Yes, SFPs do require break-in. It's a miniature circuit board, with traces, surface mount resistors, capacitors, and more.
Cheers, good to know.

Not sure if the cables you bought came with this, but it's pretty cool how my three ~$10 fibre patch cables came with measurements of return loss and insertion loss. And credit to @OCC7N it seems there is a measurably better - if very slight - average return loss for 3m vs shorter lengths, although this is a mostly obscured by the cable to cable and cable-end to cable-end variation.

Here’s the average return loss across the 4 terminations of each cable pair:
Screenshot_20240413_140001_Microsoft 365 (Office).jpg


Return loss - for those who don't know - is a measure of internal reflectivity, the difference in dB between the strength of the signal (incident) wave to the wave that is reflected back when the incident wave hits the end of the cable assembly (reflected wave). You want it as high as possible so the bounces/reflections from the teminations are negligible relative to the signal. This is a general rule for RF and optical comms/data, not audio specific. Insertion loss is negligible at these lengths, of less interest than return loss.

If I recall correctly when I looked at Minicircuits terminated RF cable range for use with master clocks a year back a mid-late 40s dB return loss at 10MHz was top end performance for BNC cables with >50dB only achieved by the very best - and expensive - SMA terminated test cables for lab use. So >50dB here (albeit at THz range for optical rather than 10MHz for clock signals) seems a pretty solid minimum beyond which any audible delta may be negligible. Not least as we're talking clocking of asynchronous network packet data rather than a master clock controlling a DAC or streamer's synchronous digital audio data timing. Though I guess with one directional RF clock signals one can double the measured RL as it takes a bounce at each end before the reflected wave heads back to hit the clock receiver, whereas network data is bi-directional so reflected waves impact at both ends so effective RL is the value measured at one end?

I admit I read the comments upthread re longer lengths being/sounding better with scepticism, I was thinking optical transmission, tiny wavelength of light relative to cable length etc - and that any differences in transmission or reflectivity would be negligible at lengths less than say 100s of metres or longer. And I’d expect the audibility of the tiny <1dB variance across my three cable pairs on top of a base of an excellent >50dB return loss would be subtle at best. But maybe the difference widens with longer lengths and/or different cable manufacturers/assemblers.

Contrast this with quoted return loss of >30/35dB for multi-mode cables, a big 15-20dB delta. No wonder the recommendation for single-mode in a hifi context. Maybe this has been discussed upthread - if so apologies.

I'd be interested to see how a 10m, 20m or 30m single mode cable would measure and perform. Or even 100m. Go on someone, take one for the team.😄

20240413_122010.jpg
 
Apr 13, 2024 at 12:12 AM Post #2,109 of 2,516
@TRHH Do you mind providing a link to the specific model /product page? I asked upthread for specific recommendations but just got general guidance re Corning single-mode, then ordered some of the only ones I get could delivered here.
 
Apr 13, 2024 at 12:16 AM Post #2,110 of 2,516
Apr 13, 2024 at 12:26 AM Post #2,111 of 2,516
Thanks Torben.

I actually did see your ref upthread to ~75dB RL but it was so much higher than the typical >50dB spec I assumed it was just the fibre's internal scatterback not the whole assembly's RL. That's very impressive they manage 20dB more.. maybe precision and quality of terminators used and terminations.
 
Apr 13, 2024 at 12:37 AM Post #2,112 of 2,516
Thanks Torben.

I actually did see your ref upthread to ~75dB RL but it was so much higher than the typical >50dB spec I assumed it was just the fibre's internal scatterback not the whole assembly's RL. That's very impressive they manage 20dB more.. maybe precision and quality of terminators used and terminations.

It is a Grade B cable 👍

Torben
 
Apr 13, 2024 at 12:42 AM Post #2,113 of 2,516
It is a Grade B cable 👍

Torben
Thanks. I noted the 'Grade B' but didn't know what it meant in this context.. normally B means cheaper/not as good as grade A.

Edit - found deets here:
https://img-en.fs.com/file/datasheet/grade-b-bif-fiber-patch-cables-datasheet.pdf

I see you contributed to this interesting thread in the topic: https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/fiber-vs-ethernet-sonic-differences.35196/page-9

Did you ever try/compare the Cisco AOC against a Finisar SFP + Grade B fibre combo?
 
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Apr 13, 2024 at 5:46 AM Post #2,114 of 2,516
I'd be interested to see how a 10m, 20m or 30m single mode cable would measure and perform. Or even 100m. Go on someone, take one for the team.😄
10 is the lucky number. Let it be rolled like it is in the package when you receive it. Just connects the ends to the units.

No wonder the recommendation for single-mode in a hifi context. Maybe this has been discussed upthread - if so apologies.

Numbers means nothing. If you like the sound you like it because you like it. Numbers has no influence of judgement to the objective ear....MUSIC.
There is only one place where numbers matters or have the theoritcal effect in fiber. Distance = The reason for inventing fiber in the first place.
 
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Apr 13, 2024 at 8:33 PM Post #2,115 of 2,516
10 is the lucky number. Let it be rolled like it is in the package when you receive it. Just connects the ends to the units.



Numbers means nothing. If you like the sound you like it because you like it. Numbers has no influence of judgement to the objective ear....MUSIC.
There is only one place where numbers matters or have the theoritcal effect in fiber. Distance = The reason for inventing fiber in the first place.
Not quite sure I agree that specs - especially these specs - can mean nothing, but agree there’s often poor or nil correlation between a ‘better’ measurement and perceived sound quality, musical enjoyment. Case in point the Mini-circuits clock cable I ordered based on specs (very high RL and shielding attenuation, both in dB) a year back was a distant fourth best sounding, dry and edgy, incl behind a super cheap AliX LMR400 style cable. For me measurements are just another data point, albeit a lowly weighted one vs other folks’ or better yet my first hand impressions of an item’s sound. In the case of clock cables the most valuable input by far, short of first hand listening, was other users experiences and recommendations.

Anyway.. back to the item being discussed - optical cables - given the significant difference in measured RL performance, which is at least theoretically potentially beneficial - and the negligible additional cost (another $10 per cable), it’s absolutely worth it to me to give em a go to hear for myself if there is an audible benefit in my system. If not, no dramas, the cost of these cables are rounding errors vs my/our other cables let alone the overall cost of our systems. It’s clear from my experimentation to date that FMCs and SFPs can vary a lot in their effect on a system’s sound. Btw I swapped the order of the Afterdark Rosanna (still moonlighting as an FMC with its streamer board switched off) and Teradak FMC around a few times again last night (with Finisar 1318 + Corning cable in between) and boy does my system sound better with the Rosanna downstream - closer to the DAC. More refined (less grain in the treble and midrange) and resolving with a touch more body too.

Those high RL cables @TRHH linked to are back-ordered to May. If/when I get some I’ll update this thread with my impressions.
 

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