Hoo Boy…
Part Deux
Hoo Boy is back for a 2nd test of the differences between these 2 Schiit DACS.
And they are even smaller than I thought, while running in SE mode.
During our preceding exploration of these 2 dacs using the Sunrise amp and HD650, the differences were so slight that it was hard to pick one over the other in terms of SQ alone.
In my research I have found that when the differences are ≈10% or less, the ability to reliably differentiate such differences, as slight as these, is essentially naught.
IOW I couldn’t tell one from the other in terms of which was ‘better’.
And as I stated, “Yes there were barely perceptible differences, but they were so slight, I lack the vocabulary to enunciate them with any real degree of elucidation…
”, and this evaluation still holds true.
So for this next stage of evaluation we substituted for the ‘lowly’ Project Sunrise III, for the brand new, hot off of the production line, Cavalli Crimson amp, which some consider THE hot item right now.
I figured the Crimson’s ‘superior’ resolution, power, SoTA design and tighter tolerances in manufacturing would reveal more of the differences between these 2 dacs.
And so I figured it would be ‘easy(er)’ to pick which dac was ‘better’.
That was my bias heading into this round of tests.
And this time we had a truly hardware matched evaluation setup.
ALL the wires for the Bimby were identical to those used with the Gumby, right down to the power cables, and up to the bel canto SPDIF converter.
This included their lengths, type of wire used, the connectors etc.
The A/B selector switch and stepped attenuator was the same as before (
Goldpoint SA2 passive attenuation with switch for A/B selection), but this time the wiring was ‘hidden’ so neither of us
victims volunteers knew which dac was assigned to which switch position.
I utterly failed, again, to clearly tell which dac was which.
I knew that there was a 0.5dB gain difference between the dacs but that was the extent of’ my foreknowledge.
Only atomicBob knew which dac was ‘hotter’, so Big Poppa and I were left to figure which dac was which.
Yeah the ever so slight differences remained and we both detected and correctly identified the 0.5dB gain difference using the A/B switch, and we both identified an ever so slight change of nuance in tonality as well.
That we could tell an improvement in SQ of the lowered output Gumby attests to the SQ of these 2 dacs and our ability to peer into the music and counter the difference (albeit 0.5dB) in gain.
And we (at least I) assumed/guessed this was the Gumby, but it was FAR to close to make a definitive assessment.
Both dacs presented a lovely sonic image with detail and resolution and precise image position and outline definition.
I simply couldn’t definitively tell, they were that close.
And when Big Poppa picked out the Gumby he said, “it was splitting frog hairs”.
He figured there was like a 1-2% difference between these 2 dacs, which made it really hard for him to tell them apart.
And he was unfamiliar with the music we were using, whereas I was familiar, so along with hearing the 0.5dB difference in gain, his ability to hear which was ‘better’ is all the more impressive.
And speaking of familiarity of the music…
We have one track that we use to help us with delineating ultra fine inner details and focus.
Have you ever heard a track with the sound of rain falling that actually sounds like rain?
Not a swishing nor a phisssing sound but of actual rain drops falling on the ground and you can actually sense the ‘wetness’ of the rain and hear it change as it rains harder?
This is a real true test of any system’s ability to recreate and present the acoustical signature of rain, such that it is unmistakable, ie. you KNOW its rain and not a facsimile nor some sound effect that sorta sounds like rain.
This is no small task as this sound resembles the sound of masking (white or pink noise), such that only a highly resolving system will be able to differentiate the sound of rain from ‘noise’.
The Bimby can and does fulfill this task, even on the $1500 system we tested before the Crimson amp was put to the test.
But wait, there’s more…
This test track has the rain in the background, which means the foreground instruments are playing over the top of the rain.
This additional foreground layer makes it even moar difficult to hear the rain as rain.
Yet the Bimby and the Gumby deliver enough of the presence and subtle intonation of rain such that rain IS what is heard and not some semblance of rain.
I swear I can hear the moisture in the air change as it rains harder.
And of course living up here in the PNW, where we KNOW rain, certainly helps keep us familiarized with its sound, all to often…
Bonus points for those who recognize this obscure quotation…
“And now we return you to the further adventures of Nick Danger 3rd eye…”
So our collective sets of ears and experience were stymied by these two sets of tests.
Which also tells us that the differences between the Sunrise III ($250) and the Crimson ($2,850) amps were not enough to help differentiate these 2 dacs either.
They truly ARE that close in SE mode.
And it should also be noted that Bob had listened to “a pile of 9 pin tubes” before settling upon a 12BH7 for the Sunrise III amp because it had;
1. no microphonics
2. minimal internal electronic noise which disappeared upon completion of powerage
3. excellent bandwidth
4. best overall sound
5. current in production and available for $22 (not unobtainum ridiculous prices)
Which points directly at the Sunrise’s versatility and tweakability as it ‘encourages’ tube rolling so easily.
And again we shared stories, and valuable information as to what we have learned, both what works and what doesn’t, which often times is much more valuable.
We listened to some good music and scratched our heads even more than in the 1st session.
And if this keeps up we may need to join the hair club for men…
So here is a picture of the setup, in which you can see the sonarworks plugin running in JRiver,
which then feeds the bel canto e.One REFlink usb to spdif DDC (digital to digital converter),
which then feeds both of the dacs,
which then are routed to the A/B switched, stepped attenuator,
with DH Labs Silver Sonic Air Matrix cables used for all RCA interconnects
which then drives the Cavalli Crimson amp,
and lastly the HD650 headphones.
So what does all of this tell us?
1st…
The family resemblance between these 2 dacs is mighty strong.
And even though there are major technical differences (dac chips used) and the change in sophistication of the support circuitry, (the power supplies and digital circuit paths that feed the actual dac chips, not to mention the analog output circuitry), are quite different between these 2 units.
And granted the Gumby delivers both balanced and single ended (SE) outputs of which we have only evaluated it’s SE outputs thus far.
But what they DO have in common is that a DSP controller is feeding the data stream to the dac chips using the “supercomboburrito” filter.
And this one single commonality seems to be the deciding factor in why they sound so similar but also do so independent of the design of the ’support’ hardware used.
This is a remarkable achievement for Mike Moffat, and his design, development and implementation team(s) that have brought to the entire field of audio, by any standard or measure.
To be able to have nearly the same degree of performance of a dac at 1/2 or even 1/4 of the price of its’ progenitors is remarkable for a variety of reasons.
I remain astonished at their technological achievements.
2nd…
Improving the ‘quality’ of the amp did not really aid in differentiating these 2 dacs.
Granted the Crimson needed more break-in time to be able to reach full resolution and focus.
Still the Crimson had some additional resolving capability and dynamics etc. but all of that didn’t help us.
These dacs are so close that if your system is SE only, there is really no reason in terms of audible SQ to spend any more $.
And it should be mentioned that these 2 amps share similar design objectives, namely they both use a dual triode tube for input voltage gain and solid state mosfets for the output current gain.
Which may account for the degree of close similarity between these 2 amps which are at near opposite ends of the $$$-$$$$ continuum.
And as atomicbob noted, the Crimson is like a highly focused race car, its performance so ‘tweaked’ that it richly rewards the listener when used with source components and headphones equally as capable.
Whereas the Sunrise is much easier to live with, and tweak/tube roll, and adapt to the specific needs of a wide range of setups.
Lastly, our aim is to pursue audio gear that is truly worthy such that it creates a special auditory experience. These amps, dacs, headphones and related gear are special in that way, and they work VERY well together to create a system that demands that you keep listening, regardless of what time it is, what else you should be doing, no matter how raised the eyebrows of SWMBO become.
These components are magical when used together.
And they deliver an immersive and addicting experience as music you once thought you knew,
is discovered anew,
all over again.
I remain astonished at these technological achievements which atomicbob has brought together which result in astonishing qualitative improvements, along with the IMPERATIVE nature (as in I MUST listen) of the experience.
I think we all are witnessing milestones in the making.
JJ
ps I just discovered that I also have that same track of the Firebird with the guy coughing. It happens about 10 seconds into the piece. And for the first time I have a sonic difference I can directly attribute to the superiority of the Bimby/Gumby dacs vs. my PWD.
And yes I can hear him cough, but it wasn’t as distinct, nor as individuated.
IOW listening to the Bimby/Gumby, his cough was distinct enough to draw attention to itself, whereas my PWD is more ‘subtle’.
But once I knew what it was and that it was there, it was easier to hear, but it’s just not as distinct.
