[shyamwanne]

Thats a great explanation Big Pappa! Great seeing you at the Seattle meet too!

If your piece of gear sounds dull, get the furutech, it will help bring it back to life. If it sounds artificial, maybe a little irritating get the synergistic Research Black. It will bring a more organic tone. Keep in mind my gear has black fuses also.

 

[shyamwanne]

Thanks for you reply JJ, and now you got me really wondering about cable cooking. I've been curious for some time if cooking the cables makes a bigger improvement than just playing music for 150 hours or so. What cooker do you use, and have you found it to improve your listening experience?

my cable cooker is getting an upgrade of sorts as I'm adding the ability to cook ethernet cables, and perhaps more significantly, be able to cook my power cables ground connections instead of just the hot and neutral circuits.

 

[johnjen]

I use the AudioDharma CableCooker.
It's an industrial strength device that has proven itself to me over the years.
https://www.thecablecooker.com/

It makes an obvious and immediate difference to every cable I have ever cooked.
Yeah they are spendy and can take from a single day to several days to cook cables depending upon the wire gauge, but the improvements are compelling, at least for me in my system and it would seem many others as well.

I'm about due to recook all my cables rather than wait until the SQ falls off.
But I'll wait until I get my Jggy back and it has settled in so I have a good handle on the net effect of the upgrade, THEN cook my cables, for the icing on the cake…

And it still takes several hundred hours after cooking for the cables to fully settle in.
But the net changes are quite remarkable.

JJ

 

[BIG POPPA]

IMHO, to get the most out of the cable you have now. Send it to get Cryo'd first then think about cooking it. If you cook it first, Cryo'ing it will undo that process. Most of my cable's are already Cryo'd. Prefer that sound.

 

[johnjen]

I just posted this over in the Jggy thread
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-yggdrasil-impressions-thread.766347/page-546#post-14254433
It might come in handy for someone.

Also, my system is now capable of delivering an IVBR experience, upon demand.
IVBR?
(In-Voluntary Blink Response) is where the acoustic presentation is so powerful and fast and sudden, and that what triggers it happens so fast, the eyes blink autonomically.

Usually it's a percussive 'voice' like a cannon or gun of some sort, but thunder and even dropped large heavy metal objects (chains, blocks etc.) are also fast enough to start and stop before you even know they happened.

It's an interesting experience to catch yourself blinking, but knowing it wasn't a voluntary choice, due to listening to tunes.

JJ

 

[HerrXRDS]

I have a hybrid IEM, 2DD+1BA. The wiring is all messed up. Not even the same on both sides so I'll have to redo it. I can see on the DD which pole is positive and which negative so that's good, I'll also have to switch the resistor for the BA on the positive wire. One problem I have though, I have no idea what's the correct polarity on the BA. Does it matter if the BA wires are reversed? From my understanding it doesn't really matter for higher frequencies. Is this correct?

 

[johnjen]

As long as both drivers are wired for the same polarity then for the mids and up there shouldn't be much, if any, audible difference.
And depending upon what player you are using, some of them will let you reverse the absolute polarity for both channels to determine if one absolute polarity is 'better' than the other.
I hear these differences mostly in the very low bass.

I hope this helps

JJ

 

[johnjen]

Late the night before (5/24 at 4am) I finished adding the Gen-5 mod to my 800's.
At first I was thinking, 'is there any difference?, is this 'better'?, because it didn't sound like it'.

Then after about 10-15 minutes I thought "wait what was that?" I don't remember hearing that before.
Then after about 35-45 minutes I heard the acoustic presentation become a bit more Cohesive and Coherent.
Then the I5 (Intelligibility) stepped up a notch as I could hear the words sung more distinctly and clearly.

Then after ≈1hr it became rather obvious that I had achieved Gen-5 performance, and that's when SDSG (SuperDuperSuperGlue) kicked in big time as did Coupling which also enhanced all the C3 (Coherence, Cohesion, Coupling) factors along with,
T3 (Toe Tapping Time)
HB&W (Head Bobbing & Weaving)
S/S Spooky/Scary
REALNESS
HMMAIAA (Hearing My Music As If Anew Again)
HE (Hearing Everything)
LEDI (Leading Edge Dynamic Impact)
It was 6am when I went to bed.

And listening this morning, ≈8hrs later, these changes have settled in nicely and become a bit more pronounced, which if the patterns of the past hold up, they should remain for the rest of the day.
Then the settling in process should continue it's usual pattern.

And no I haven't measured this gen-5 mod yet, but will do so in due course.
But next up is to fully mod my 'B' set of 800's up to this Gen-5 level.
And this latest iteration is less tedious which makes it even easier to implement than the previous generations.

Which means that once I measure this Gen-5 mod and finish my write up, I'll post the specifics of this quest to more fully dial in my 800's.

JJ

 

[HerrXRDS]

Does this look right or is the wiring all messed up? Should I remove the 12 ohm resistor to bring mids forward?

 

[johnjen]

I'm not even sure what I'm looking at to be able to comment.
Could you label all of the parts shown in the diagram, and let us know what this circuit is?

I could make a bunch of assumptions, but I've learned that course of action usually leads to even more confusion.

JJ

 

[HerrXRDS]

It's a chinese 2DD + 1BA ZS6 copy. It's the second pair I got, first one had the wiring so messed up and the contacts melted so bad, it wasn't even worth trying to fix so I returned it. This one has good looking soldering work, but I don't think the wiring is quite right. It's diffrent from the first pair, and why would they put the resistor on the negative? I keep trying cause it sounds very good as is, was wondering if it can be improved even more, like bring the vocals up even more. Bass very responsive, highs perfect, but the mids are a little recessed, not by much. The diagram shows a 10mm dynamic driver, a 6mm dynamic and a balanced armature plus two resistors. Not sure if there's a cap on the ba though cause I don't have full access.

 

[johnjen]

Ah, so it's a pair of headphones with 3 drivers, (I don't know what "2DD + 1BA ZS6" is).
They are all running full range and use fixed resistors to match the output levels to each other.
And you want to increase the mid range driver's output with respect to the bass and 'tweeter'.

Removing the resistor in series with the 6mm driver would probably be WAY to much of a change, but the only way to tell would be to try it.
My guess would be to reduce it by 1/4 or 1/3 or 1/2 (use a 9Ω or 8Ω or 6Ω resistor) instead, or perhaps an even a smaller value resistor would work in order to achieve your desired outcome.

But keep in mind that you'll also probably have to fuss with the resistor in series with the 'tweeter' (balanced armature driver) as well, in order to keep them in relative balance with each other.

And it doesn't really matter if the resistors in series with the drivers, are on the positive or negative side of the driver, since it's their combined load that determines their relative output level with respect to the 2 other drivers.

IOW you'll just have to try different values of resistors to see if you can better match their respective output levels to meet your expectations.

And be prepared to have unexpected consequences arise as you fuss with trying to achieve a better balance.

JJ

 

[HerrXRDS]

Thank you. You are right, took it out and is way much of a change, now the 6mm sounds too harsh. I'll have to order a bunch resistors, bypass the wiring to some type of socket connector and play around with different values till I find the one I like.

 

[johnjen]

The HD-800 a headphone ahead of its time.
And the ‘need’ for modifications, common assumptions, and my different approach and results.

When the 800’s were first released it was a love/hate relationship with many users.
Some couldn’t stand them as they were to ‘bright’ or had a ‘hard edge’ or the top end was ‘strident’ etc.

And at the time the 6.5KHz spike in FR was pointed out as the culprit for these problems.
And so those who figured they could ‘tame’ these problems went about devising several generations of modifications to address these issues.

Along the way I tried them all and after much playing around and trying various different materials and techniques I was sorta satisfied with the results.

That is until I found SAA (Stephan Audio Arts) and subsequently had my 800’s modified and hardwired.
This whole approach opened my eyes to what was and wasn’t going on.
That isn’t to say it became completely clear what was going on, but it is to say, at least for me, it was obvious that the single issue of that 6.5KHz ’spike’ wasn’t the real source of the problem.
Because the results were so far superior to any of the other attempts I had made, there was no turning back.

And along the way I discovered that listener fatigue (I call it tLFF or theListenerFatigueFactor) WAS a contributor to all of this.
And in addition, how important the upstream gear was, and how well setup it was, were also key elements, in not just taming the 800’s, but in allowing them to ‘sing’ as it were.
They are after all only going to create the signal based upon what is fed to them.
And with the tweaks I am using, the upstream system is even more critical in achieving my goal of just listening to music and for ‘the system’ itself to disappear, or as I like to put it, “get the system out of its own way”.

But there were a couple of issues that 800’s have, that could be addressed based upon all of the work I had performed from those previous generations of mods that were, at the time, the mainstay of the available solutions to the 800.
And a significant contributor learned from those previous mods, to improving the 800’s, was dealing with the ‘trapazoid’ and it’s surrounding ‘wings’.

But the SAA mods also showed me a few other related physical modifications that were also very helpful.
Such as removing the ‘protective screen’ that is on the outside of the ear cups that covers the drivers.

And then there are those ‘special’ connectors Sennheiser uses.
Ever since I first examined my 800’s and saw those tiny pins that were used in the connectors for each driver, I knew I was going to hardwire them, which also made a significant improvement as well.
Of course choosing a suitable replacement cable was another contributor to getting the most out of my 800’s.

In short, in my experiments and research, the much maligned 6.5KHz spike wasn’t the real problem after all.

Because you see, the SAA mods had NO dampening material in the earcups and the degree of listener fatigue was reduced WAY down, all based upon how the drivers were secured to the ear cup assemblies, along with the removal of the external protective screen, and being hardwired.

This got me to wondering if these changes would be revealed using any of the available testing procedures.

So I contacted Tyll at InnerFidelity to see if he would measure them, and he agreed.
This stared my investigations in earnest as I now had measurements of the changes from stock with which to compare to my modded pair of 800’s.

And indeed I did find one specific test that connected up the dots I was looking at, and
that was related to listener fatigue, and,
that ‘opened up’ the 800’s, as was revealed by the SAA mods.

That test was the 20 or 30Hz square wave test.
I could have used the impulse test, but the square wave test was more revealing and useful, since it showed the Initial Leading Edge Response (ILER), that was of particular interest to me.

What I began to realize was,
the overshoot of that leading edge WAS the primary source of the listener fatigue,
and the LEDI Leading Edge Dynamic Impact, was the source of the improvement that the SAA mod made, that was so compelling.

So as I continued to experiment and make other modifications to my 800’s, I began to zero in on optimizing that ILER, because I realized that the use of leading edge overshoot, which is very common, was not optimal.

And as I further refined my approach to dialing in my mod, the better my 800’s sounded, and,
the closer to ideal that was to the original signal, and,
the more I didn’t want nor need to make any further changes.

All I wanted to do was to just listen to music.

To me, this was a VERY good sign, that I was on the right track.
Not to mention a major step in achieving my goal of listening to music and not ‘the system’ itself.
And this pattern was repeated several times and the ‘need’ to further modify (other than by sheer curiosity) grew weaker after each new generation was achieved.
I took this as an even better sign, that I’m on the right track, and I’m further dialing in my approach.

So my conclusion is the ‘solution’ to the maximizing the 800’s involves the entire system that drives them, which isn’t exactly a new idea by itself.
But tweaking the ILER waveform to more closely match the step response input, helps optimize these tweaks to the 800’s with wonderful and surprising results.

So I kept diving deeper and deeper down this rabbit hole and when I purchased a set of ears (3dio head simulator) my efforts sped up considerably as I didn’t have to wait for measurements, I could make a change and then run those mods and see how the variables I was juggling told me whether what I did brought me closer in achieving my goal of dialing in that ILER, or not.

So the full VMC mod (Vibration Management Control) involves the 3 aforementioned tweaks (hardwired cable, external screen removal, trapazoid treatment), plus what I have come up with as my tweak (VMC), which together all make up this mod.

And in principle it’s amazingly easy to describe what my VMC tweak involves, at least in general terms.

Take the metal inner mounting 'clamp ring' (my terminology) off, coat the metal side with dampening material, then mount it in reverse, with the new dampening material ‘down’ into the driver and it’s mounting structure.

Put it all back together and then listen.
Give them at least 1 hour of operation to settle in before any critical evaluation, after all you just disassembled the entire driver mounting assembly and then changed it.
And depending upon the state of tweak of your system, as mentioned above, this initial period of improvement may only last for several hours before morphing, only to return as they continue to settle in.

And as the saying goes, ‘the devil is in the details’, and this project has plenty of them buried in the many many small little details in the actual implementation of this tweak.
But those details are the very same ones it has taken so long to ferret out, coupled with learning what aspects of re-assembly are important etc.
Not to mention the various types of dampening material etc.

Like I said, in principle it’s easy to describe, but the doing and achieving of optimal results, is much more involved.
That isn’t to say an experienced DIY’r can’t implement all 4 of these tweaks in this mod, its not rocket science.
And let me add, this change to the 'clamp ring', can be easily reverted back to stock by simply reversing the 'clamp ring' again, as in a before and after test of sorts.

And as I posted, this final tweak to my 800’s, the Gen-5 level of performance, is settling in nicely.
So in Part 2 of this report I am going to release more of the details I use to achieve my results, along with the measurements and a few pics of the tweaks themselves.

It will take a bit of time, because 1st I want to fully mod my 2nd pair of 800’s, my ‘B’ set, so I will have 2 fully modded pairs of 800’s to measure and compare to each other.


JJ

 

[johnjen]

So now I've completed the task of implementing a full VMC mod to my secondary 'B' set of 800's, and I'm listening to them as I type this.
I have ≈ 8hrs on them and they are morphing quite rapidly (comparatively speaking) but still continue to surprise me with the amount of the SQ step up.

I'm already hearing nuances and harmonic structure changes specifically to acoustic based instruments (guitars, horns, drums etc.) that sound more like an acoustic resonator 'box' with vibrating strings exciting it, or a metal horn moving air thru it, or the thwack of the impact of being struck.
To me this means the resonant structure I'm hearing is of a wooden box with tuned strings, harmonically energetically exciting it all, is more true to its origins.
It is more evident that the sharp edge and the sound of air moving thru a metal horn, is closer to sounding exactly like that.
That the visceral hit that any percussive impact actually delivers is being felt as much as being heard.
Thru headphones.

And all this on my PWD dac.
And I figure when my JggyB settles in, the level of inner detail etc, will be off the charts, as in the previous 100% will be handily eclipsed.

Because it is at these levels of performance where the signal source has the greatest degree of impact upon the delivered acoustic presentation.
Because when the entire system allows as much as possible, of ALL of the original signal to be presented, to be heard, AND minimizes adding/smearing any 'extra' acoustic energy where it doesn't belong, THEN essentially the 'system' disappears, and all that remains is the music.

And now with my 800's about as dialed in as I can get them, along with the rest of the system all tweaked, I figure I'm in for some REALLY long nights as SDSG glues me into my listening chair.

Oh and my cable cooker can now cook the ground circuit (along with hot and neutral) in my power cables, which is in the process of being tested as I type this.

The fun just never stops.
Just like I like.

JJ