[rnros]

  RN3 progress report.
 
@ ≈100hrs since the last major mod was made and the SQ is rising and already I'm hearing more and more gud stuff.
 
I heard the air handling system kick in during a quiet passage of a Grieg piano concerto and immediately identified it for what it was.
And during this settling time, to step up so early, is an especially good sign.

Great for the RN3, not so great for the recording venue, assuming it was a studio or adapted space, not a concert hall! But I've heard similar on recordings, worst has been starting and stopping traffic.
 

And on a different topic… So is anyone seeing anything 'useful' in the data I've presented thus far?

Haven't read the thread, yet, but I will. Looks interesting on first scan. Thanks.

 

[atomicbob]

 
Now that the Modi MB is out, and some compare it favorably with (i.e. not ludicrously behind) Yggdrasil, does this have any implications for the budget-minded Synergy System? This would allow swapping the most expensive component in that system (Bifrost MB) for something more in line with the other components...

Will be looking at this over the next several weeks as time permits. First impressions of MoMB: spatial cues, immersion are similar to the other Schiit MB but there are trade-offs to achieve this price point and resolution is one of them. For most music the slightly lower resolution won't be audible. Some of my more dynamic jazz and classical recordings achieve better focus as one moves up the product line. 

 

[atomicbob]

  RN3 progress report.
 
@ ≈100hrs since the last major mod was made and the SQ is rising and already I'm hearing more and more gud stuff.
 
I heard the air handling system kick in during a quiet passage of a Grieg piano concerto and immediately identified it for what it was.
And during this settling time, to step up so early, is an especially good sign.
 
 
And on a different topic…
So is anyone seeing anything 'useful' in the data I've presented thus far?
 
Just curious is all.
 
JJ

There is a lot of data here which takes time to distill.
RN D16 + MC-3+ is providing an excellent 3-D spatial immersion even with the MoMB.
-AB

 

[johnjen]

Hopefully some of the insights in the data will be more apparent in the next part of the mini-series.
 
JJ

 

[johnjen]

What and how do we know what IS ‘Better’?
or
It’s all in our heads, or is it?
 
Part 23-E             ASCC test results, My take away of all of this data…
 
So what do I make of all this fussing with cables and analyzing these ASCC results?
 
Well some of the obvious conclusions are the shorter the cables the better and larger gauge wires can pass BIG current IF, a Big IF, the branch circuit is ‘healthy’.
So if you really want to see big gains with ‘monster gauge’ cables, just to feed our measly couple of hundred watts of power draw, you need a ‘healthy’ branch circuit.
Well D’uh… 

 
And in my case the power draw is ≈150watts and it used to be roughly half that.
So the question arises in my mind anyway, why does this even make any difference at all?
But answering that question will have to wait, because there are additional factors in play to examine, which is coming up in the next part.
 
So I have noted that these results, where better ASCC numbers and ‘Better’ sound show correlation and this tells me there is some sort of link here.
Just what it is, is still a bit unclear although it would be all to easy to ‘jump to conclusions’.
But really all that matters is, once again, is it ‘Better’, or not.
 
I guess you could say for me the answer is obvious, I mean I went to the trouble and expense of testing all this stuff just to see what I could see, so I did feel there was something of worthwhile value to pursue.
And perhaps a secret to reveal, buried somewhere in all of this.
 
And really the insights I have gained are helpful to my understanding of what and why any of this makes any difference, at all.
 
Now for a few more particular observations.
 
The ASCC results from my ‘standard’ house wiring has been bested by a factor of 3-4 times more current dumping capability and this increase was noticed at every step of the way as improvements were introduced.
Even the lowly AppCord can dump 3 times more current when fed by a more robust branch circuit.
 
But the ‘jump’ from my bathroom GFCI source to the ‘extension cord’ that runs my computer, to the 1st Splice, without exception, showed large increases and improvements in all aspects that were measured.
 
And being able to dump 1000 Amps in a short time frame vs ≈ 300 Amps is a significant increase.
 
And the marked difference in the measurements between the 1st Splice location and the end of the run with 15’ of added romex is also telling.
 
And that Stubby 12” ref cable gave, consistently, the best ASCC readings.
And that all of the other cables are 5-6’ long is another telling piece to this puzzle.
 
And that by including the Ground wire into the ASCC test always (with again, 1 exception) gave increased current dump capability.
 
All of these observations point at further areas for study.
Except that the true benefit is ‘Better’ SQ from the system, in many many ways.
 
So additionally when testing a ‘poor’ branch circuit, the cable itself being used to test that circuit will only have minimal beneficial effects, at most.
IOW the limiting factor is the branch circuit itself and not the cable being tested/used.
This in and of itself may help to explain why for some, they hear no improvement by using a ‘better’ AC cable on their gear.
And in these cases the branch circuit itself is The CP and a ‘better’ AC cable won’t fix that.
 
 

 
 

 
 
The next bit of analysis centers upon using the Ref Cable and comparing it’s measurements, specifically the Impedance and Voltage Drop generated numbers, from the GFCI outlet to the end of the branch circuit that feeds my audio system.
Here we see a 3 to 4 fold decrease in resistance of the hot and neutral circuits, and similar decreases in the Voltage Drop numbers for those same hot and neutral circuits.
IOW again as the branch circuit improves there is less ‘wasted’ energy when delivering power to our gear.
And these improvements can yield better peak amounts of current, for a very short amount of time.
 
Next up is comparing all of the AC cables, especially the 6 best cables (G-4-r thru to the Stubby plus the Marigo) where we see they all measure fairly close to each other.
But what sticks out for me is that, as was mentioned previously, shorter and larger gauge cables tend to deliver better results.
And here we are comparing a 12” cable with 6’ cables, which in turn says using bigger gauge wires can overcome the added length of the cables.
 
But, again ONLY if the branch circuit from the panel is sufficiently robust to be able to dump big current in the first place.
 
Another consequence of these improvements is the increase in the number of these re-purposed words I’ve been using and describing in this entire ‘Better’ series of posts.
IOW the improvements made to the electrical service and its capability, resulted in trying to describe the changes I heard as a result of these improvements, which also led to exploring additional aspects of the power delivery capability, and research into fuses etc.
 
Lastly is how much change in peak ASCC numbers the 12AWG romex delivered between the 1st Splice and the end of the audio run.
IOW the length increased by ≈40% and the peak current dropped off by up to ≈ 1/2.
 
Which just further reinforces the idea of the length of the cable as being a big influencing factor in current dump capability.
 
And what would happen if instead of 12AWG romex, 10 or even 8awg cables were used instead?
Well, actually I have a coil of 4 x 8awg mondo romex cable sitting in my back room, just waiting to be used and measured…
 
Next up is Part #24 - A - B - C  Fuses, theis leeettle wyr…  
This is turning out to be another long post, so I’ll be breaking it up into segments.
And I’m not sure of the details of just how this will happen, yet.
Stay tuned…

JJ

End Part 23-E  
 
Next up         Part 24 - A - B - C  Fuses, theis leeettle wyr…

 

[Middy]

I was wondering if there would be a change to the panel fuses also JJ or are you discussing Fuses throughoutthe chain?
From reading about the UK regs changing To metal case with dual RCD trips.

I did as suggested and ran the trips on and off to wipe the contacts.

My thought was with your experiments would a higher gauge wire require a different rated Trip and would that affect your readings?
This safety wise would be for the total load i assume but does this add to the total change even though the load is the same...
Again excuse my limited knowledge but i am still very pleased and suprised that Synergistic research Quantum Black affected the sound so radically..

Just not quite enough to start sacrificing live goats but nearly magical to my ears...

 

[johnjen]

If by panel fuses you mean those ceramic or glass screw in fuses, then the best I'd recommend is to power down the entire panel and clean the 'threads' and center contacts of both the fuses and their sockets.
 

 

 
I use scotchbrite and in this case I'd also use cramolin or deoxit red if the corrosion is heavy.
If the threads and center 'button' get nice and shiney just using the scotchbrite then the red deoxit/cramolin isn't needed.
Improving the ability of the fuse to connect to its 'socket' will solve multiple problems both potential (like a fire hazzard) and existing (greater voltage and current delivery to the load).
 
Most breaker panels are designed for certain types and numbers of branch circuit loads.
So while changing the screw in fuses might seem like a good idea, you are limited in the fuse rating by it's size, so trying to use fuses with greater ratings than what the panel is designed for is simply not gunna happen.
IOW the range of fuses is determined by the panel itself so it 'automatically' limits the range of fuses that are meant for that panel.
 
As for using greater gauge wire, again the panels are designed for certain branch circuit capacities and getting much greater gauge wire to actually 'fit' in the spaces provided, with much stiffer wires, is a challenge in and of itself.
And there are other built in 'safety' factors as well, but regardless, as I mentioned above each panel is designed for a certain range of capacities and trying to significantly expand beyond them is difficult.
And really an electrician should be involved in any such attempt.
 
But yes if a circuit breaker or screw in fuse of greater capacity or larger gauge wire is used, the ASCC numbers will increase.
 
And sometimes the net effect of using a 'Better' fuse in our gear can be astonishing and unexpected in the range and magnitude of the SQ improvements.
 
JJ

 

[Middy]

http://m.automation24.co.uk/item/313031313232?refID=adwords_shopping_UK&gclid=Cj0KEQjwouW9BRCN0ozIifTI6_cBEiQAD9gNsWLf6WTA-ERJIdvaFszx637GBPT5zv1QA39se_yhwpIaArIi8P8HAQ

I have these in my UK consumer unit..
did reset them all back in as there is a tang at the back that fits into the busbar.. ran them back and forward....
Ironically 2 wires for the upstairs ring were loose ... Same for the main Earth...Glad I checked... All switched off...

I'll check any changes tommorow...

Keep up the good work..

 

[johnjen]

Checking for those loose wires is a very good thing.
It's those that can start house fires.
 
Did you check the ends of those loose wires that fed into those circuit breakers (CB's)?
Make sure they aren't 'cooked'/corroded etc.
 
And manually tripping then re-setting those CB's serves multiple functions.
Besides making sure they actually work it also tends to 'clean' the contact patches inside the CB's.
 
JJ

 

[Middy]

I was suprised the was no arcing around the contacts just the normal dull copper. A clean an a touch of Deoxit..
It was as comfortable as I felt with the box still having the live on at the main breaker. (Panel off) The sound has improved somewhat...Safety for my home first. .. but SQ is very nice for free....
Shame my power bill isn't. ...

Thanks for the advice as always JJ

 

[hekeli]

Sorry for little ad, but as it was discussed in this thread.. sold my phones so if someone wants to experiment with the polarity stuff, I can sell my 4-pin XLR->XLR adapter made by Forza (hybrid HPC). It has right channel polarity reversed. Feel free to PM..

 

[johnjen]

So I wrote this and posted it 'over yonder' and thought it might help provide some insight here as well.
 
An Analogy.

I’m ‘into’ hi-end teas, have spent the time and effort to learn and experience a variety of teas from boxed and bagged teas from spaceway, to multi-K$ teas.
 
And I would venture a guess that not many here are ‘into’ tea, at any level.
This is akin to the general public’s general lack of awareness of tea vs. those who are ‘into’ tea.
Likewise most folks aren't 'into' audio, let alone want/need to push the envelope, so to speak.
 
Of course the learning curve for tea is (or can be) involved and takes a fair amount of exposure to the range of what is available.
But it also takes exposure and experience of what is possible to know what teas you like and what teas you don’t care for.
This is akin to those just starting out in audio vs those who have spent the time and $$$$$$ and effort to explore what they like and what they don’t care for…
 
Along the way in learning about tea, the issue of how to best make tea, and what ‘tools’ and techniques help to make tea ‘Better’ is introduced into the picture.
This considerably complicates the picture, due to the variety of tools and their usefulness in making a particular tea.
 
For instance, some pots make no difference (glass for instance) while others can make the tea much ‘Better’ and other pots can make it far worse.
This is part of the learning curve, and is experientially based, meaning until you personally taste the tea you won’t know for yourself if that tea works well with that pot and water quality and temperature and brewing time etc. (the techniques).
And there are a myriad of possibilities and combinations of tools and techniques as well as teas.
This is akin to the choices we all have for gear and how we wind up using our setup
 
And with tea, each experience is unique, meaning the very same tea will present a different taste from pot to pot and even from cup to cup, and even from the first sip to the last for a cup.
This degree of ‘resolution’ is usually only apparent when your tea palate is developed well enough to be able to distinguish the subtle differences that are inherent in making and enjoying tea.
This is where exposure and experience comes into play, so that one can appreciate these differences in the first place.
This is akin to knowing what types of SQ are preferable vs those that are less so.
But attaining this degree of perceptible resolution does take exposure and experience and then we can take on the task of determining if the results are ‘Better’, or not.
And each individual makes that choice for themselves.
 
Some teas are very flavorable while others are so slight they could be dismissed as being just hot water.
But until one’s tea palette is developed and attuned, these 2 examples can easily be considered as being a less than desirable tea.
And they certainly can be for that individual at that time, but in the fullness of time (ie. added experience) both of these extremes can become very delightful to the very same individual.
This a kin to the refinement and a more thorough understanding of just what we desire and have come to understand, for ourselves, as being ‘Better’.
 
IOW this hobby accords us all the opportunity to explore what each of us likes and more importantly allows us to develop our appreciation for what added resolution and refinement and in which particular ways these aspects morph as we further develop our ability to hear ‘into’ the music.
This is what I call getting ‘calibrated’, meaning as we become all the more exposed to ‘Better’ SQ, we can all the better judge if any changes we make to our system are truly ‘Better’, or are they just different.
 
All of this reminds me of what Bruce Lee once told me…
‘In the beginning of training a punch is just a punch, and a kick is just a kick.
While delving into the training and learning all of the aspects of martial arts, a punch is much more than a punch, and a kick is much more than just a kick.
Then when a degree of mastery is achieved, a punch is just a punch and a kick is just a kick.’
 
So it is with any degree of self mastery.
We learn by doing and where we focus our attention, we achieve added understanding which can lead to wisdom, if we so choose.
 
JJ
 
And there is a part 2 to this as well, which I'll post later.
 
JJ

 

[Middy]

It got a bit Hot over there but you can't buy personal experience only gain it over time. I wish I had yours and Bob's experience. ATM I am playing with shielding. Some deeper analogies are missed by some and even though I got a dislike for it Sometimes the music is the only common thread between people.
But that's a good thing for community. ....
What people take from it can be manifold. Collectors, data analysis, engineering, experimenters,just people finding a kindred spirit to talk to..
You can swap audio for any other hobby you tend to find similar people..
It would be nice to just jump in and buy from others hard earned experience but that cuts out the journey that most of us need to bring satisfaction....

Bruce's philosophical look at life was more impressive that his martial skills. But both intrinsically linked..

Cheers buddy always a thought provoking
read..
Keep smiling JJ
Dave

 

[johnjen]

It got a bit Hot over there but you can't buy personal experience only gain it over time. I wish I had yours and Bob's experience. ATM I am playing with shielding. Some deeper analogies are missed by some and even though I got a dislike for it Sometimes the music is the only common thread between people.
But that's a good thing for community. ....
What people take from it can be manifold. Collectors, data analysis, engineering, experimenters,just people finding a kindred spirit to talk to..
You can swap audio for any other hobby you tend to find similar people..
It would be nice to just jump in and buy from others hard earned experience but that cuts out the journey that most of us need to bring satisfaction....

Bruce's philosophical look at life was more impressive that his martial skills. But both intrinsically linked..

Cheers buddy always a thought provoking
read..
Keep smiling JJ
Dave

I have found it fascinating that the combination of our personal experience and the interaction between us yields such dynamic results.
By that I mean we share our understandings with each other, some of which is 'hard' earned and very difficult to attain any other way but to do what is needed, and this experience/understanding/wisdom sequence can all to easily be 'taken for granted'.
 
Why?
Because there was little personal involvement/investment in attaining these experiences and their consequential results if simply shared without direct involvement in these pearls of wisdom.
They don't carry the same weight of value without 'work'n it'.
Some do grasp and are appreciative of these nuggets of insights, and their associated means and methods for getting 'Better'.
 
And being able to pass them along is valuable in and of itself, especially if there is a modicum of comprehension on the receiving end.
 
But the real 'value' of this 3 step sequence (experience/understanding/wisdom) is in the doing of it, and not the having of it.
 
And in this hobby the having of it reigns supreme, and for good reason.
Like how can you experience kick @ss tunes if you don't have access to them?
 
But the fun doesn't have to stop there, by any means.
This is one of the 'secrets' to music that is rarely if ever mentioned.
That being, the curiosity and discovery thru trial and error/experimentation and making mistakes, lots and lots of mistakes can be so helpful.
Mistakes are (or can be) the fast lane to bridging the gap from experience to understanding, and but for the stigma, has no equal in terms of effectiveness, that is if it is dealt with in this way.
 
Like the saying, 'it’s the journey and not the destination' that is or can have far more significance and value.
 
And lastly our personal interaction can act as triggers, or activators, or as an inspirational kick in the butt, to help us point our curiosity and discovery in new directions and with 'fresh' perspectives applied to the familiar.
This can (if followed up) result in additional insights and avenues of experimentation.
 
Which is where learning, and becoming all the more involved and familiar with that which we are already motivated to want to know more about to begin with, becomes fun.
 
A Win-Win-Win scenario, if ever there was one.
 
JJ

 

[johnjen]

This is my response to a post from 'elsewhere' and since this response is based upon another’s comments, I'll ask the questions (as I understand them) then the answers in my post will make more sense.
 
Making tea can become complicated if that is what one wishes to do.
 
Yeah all of those 'extra' accessories just make the whole 'ceremony' a PIA as far as I'm concerned.
 
The Japanese do a ceremony, where every move is choreographed etc. and it’s very complex and deliberately so.
 
The Chinese method used to be really complex and used a whole bunch of tools, but the way I was taught was very simple yet sophisticated and required a fair amount of experience to know steep times and temperature etc. and how to dial each steeping in for optimal results. And then there is the 'art' of 'raising' the pot and determining what tea(s) it will be suitable for.
 
When I was hanging out at the tea house making tea for all of the customers while they all spoke to each other in whatever dialect they choose, (and I didn't understand anything they were saying) it was a 'trick' to keep up with the 'demand'. The ideal was to never let any cup stay empty, unless it was upside down…
 
The thing is, at least for me, making tea for a group is like going to a pub or coffee house where everyone is sitting around telling stories and sharing life experiences while enjoying some really fine tea. And unlike a pub, no one gets loaded, or way to jittery from coffee (although tea can get you 'high') it’s a much more relaxed and convivial experience.
 
So making tea is an art, one that needs practice and exposure to a variety of teas and conditions in order to get the process dialed in.
 
Joe the owner of the tea store gave me a set of 10 'official tea institute' video tapes from Taiwan, on how to make tea, which I watched and didn't understand a single word, but the video told me all I needed to know. And when I asked Joe why the method was so rigid and didn't reflect what he had taught me, he said it was the official 'method' but everyone knew how to make tea 'the right way'.
 
There seems to be a ‘trend’ in taking the making of tea to an extreme of sorts.
 
And that technique of stuffing the pot and hitting it with boiling water etc. seems like a method to impress and separate those who know from those who don't know what really good tea is truly all about. The true sign of good tea is when your body knows and automatically reaches for your cup after it has been refilled because you drank all that was served, time and time again. But when the cup is never emptied, because your body knows it isn't what it wants, well that's the sign that tells the tale.
 
As the process of making tea is grasped more fully, a degree of refinement kicks in and the end results become all the more sublime and appreciated.
 
And as more experience is gained the tea making process becomes all the more refined and 4-5-6-7-8 steeps becomes the norm, then you know you've got your technique dialed in.
It's not a matter of going by the steps but by paying attention to all of the signs (like how the pot responds during the steep) and playing with the variables to nail the results.
That's when that last 1.2% shows up, because all of the parameters are optimized because intuitively they are taken into account.
Pu-Erh is the epitome of this whole process where 20-30 steeps is attainable IF you know what you're doing AND have the correct pot etc.
And the results can be sublime, something like a tea version of a fine port with rich and deep flavors that morph and change even while drinking from just one sip. But without the opportunity to experience this level of enjoyment one may never know what the range of flavors that are attainable from really fine tea can truly be.
 
But it takes experience to know how all of these details influence each other and how to compensate as the number of steeps goes up, that is if you want to nail it and explore as much of the subtleties as are available.
 
JJ