[BeAsTMode4MVP]

I wasn't considering the Taboo for the HE-6, I was thinking maybe the mini TORII would pair well with the HE-6.

dminches, are you saying that in using the CSP2+ and Taboo, you think plugging the HD800 into the Taboo is better than the CSP2+? I was thinking the Taboo paired best with orthos, while the CSP2+ was exceptional with the HD800.

 

[jazzerdave]

Quote:

I wasn't considering the Taboo for the HE-6, I was thinking maybe the mini TORII would pair well with the HE-6.

dminches, are you saying that in using the CSP2+ and Taboo, you think plugging the HD800 into the Taboo is better than the CSP2+? I was thinking the Taboo paired best with orthos, while the CSP2+ was exceptional with the HD800.

 
For what it's worth, I preferred the HD800 straight out of the CSP2+ to the CSP2+/Taboo combination, but I didn't spend much time with it.  We were pairing Nick's CSP2+ with my Taboo mk2 at our little mini-meet, and we didn't fool around much with the input/output level pots.  I'm guessing we could have improved the synergy by messing with those levels a bit.  I would spend time doing this with my own set, but my CSP2+ has some transformer hum that's going to necessitate a trip back to the service bench at Decware.

 

[longbowbbs]

Quote:

Quote:

I wasn't considering the Taboo for the HE-6, I was thinking maybe the mini TORII would pair well with the HE-6.

dminches, are you saying that in using the CSP2+ and Taboo, you think plugging the HD800 into the Taboo is better than the CSP2+? I was thinking the Taboo paired best with orthos, while the CSP2+ was exceptional with the HD800.

 
For what it's worth, I preferred the HD800 straight out of the CSP2+ to the CSP2+/Taboo combination, but I didn't spend much time with it.  We were pairing Nick's CSP2+ with my Taboo mk2 at our little mini-meet, and we didn't fool around much with the input/output level pots.  I'm guessing we could have improved the synergy by messing with those levels a bit.  I would spend time doing this with my own set, but my CSP2+ has some transformer hum that's going to necessitate a trip back to the service bench at Decware.

When I was at Decware I asked Steve about pairing the CSP2+ and the Taboo with Headphones. Definitely some tweeking needed with the 2 volume controls and the output pots...Between different HP's, those controls, Tube rolling and Lucid mode 1 & 2 you could spend months finding your own private HP nirvana....

 

[BeAsTMode4MVP]

longbow, any comment on the mini TORII ability to drive the HE-6 well and with authority? And its synergy with the LCD-2.2?

 

[Nick Dangerous]

Quote:

 
For what it's worth, I preferred the HD800 straight out of the CSP2+ to the CSP2+/Taboo combination, but I didn't spend much time with it.  We were pairing Nick's CSP2+ with my Taboo mk2 at our little mini-meet, and we didn't fool around much with the input/output level pots.  I'm guessing we could have improved the synergy by messing with those levels a bit.  I would spend time doing this with my own set, but my CSP2+ has some transformer hum that's going to necessitate a trip back to the service bench at Decware.

 
Seconded. Results were rather "wooly" out of the CSP+Taboo MKII combo. Could it have been improved with tube swaps, input/output level tweaking, etc? Most likely. But the CSP+ alone with HD800 was very nice as-is. Nice enough that I don't feel motivated to go down that exploratory road of tweaking. If I wanted to upgrade beyond the CSP+ I'd instead consider jumping to a Liquid Glass, Zana Deux, Balancing Act, or Manley... but we're talking 2x-5x $$$$ for incremental gains at that point.
 
Tube set: RCA 5Y3GT (cheap), 6n1P-EV driver tubes (cheap), Mullard E88CC input tube (premium, but not unobtanium) + Concero DAC (relatively cheap). So far, this is the most optimal price/performance tubed rig for the HD800 I've yet heard. No glaring sonic deficiencies, no regrets, and gosh darn it... it looks really sweet too. 
 
(but the hobby never truly ends... muah hah hah)

 

[longbowbbs]

Quote:

longbow, any comment on the mini TORII ability to drive the HE-6 well and with authority? And its synergy with the LCD-2.2?

I have never heard the Mini-Torii or the Torii (Someday...). Not enough time when I was at Decware. One interesting comment Steve did make was that the process of creating the Taboo MK III helped him correct the hiss that was heard in the earlier Taboo and Mini Torii when they added the headphone jack. Steve said they can apply what they have learned to the other amps now and make the silent for HP use particularly with low impedance HP's.
 
I have no idea how this might apply if you were using speaker taps for the HE-6. It would be fun to try.

 

[dminches]

Quote:

I wasn't considering the Taboo for the HE-6, I was thinking maybe the mini TORII would pair well with the HE-6.

dminches, are you saying that in using the CSP2+ and Taboo, you think plugging the HD800 into the Taboo is better than the CSP2+? I was thinking the Taboo paired best with orthos, while the CSP2+ was exceptional with the HD800.

 
Hopefully Frank will chime in on this but that my recollection from his comments.  He has owned all 3 units so he would know best.

 

[BeAsTMode4MVP]

Yea, I definately want to hear from Frank. Thanks everybody for the replies so far.

If I used the CSP2+ headphone jack for the HD800, while using the Taboo for the LCD-2 and speakers, would the tube combinations be problematic? Is it even possible/safe to do this? I am not familiar with stand alone pre-amps.

 

[Argo Duck]

Jazzerdave and Lloyd, I produced this same equation in the original Taboo thread, and was quite rightly chided by Skylab for ignoring (or rather not knowing) that power transfer is different with transformers.
 
Like the MiniTorii, the Taboo is transformer coupled, with an impedance around 6 ohms.
 
Chris J - an EE who specializes in power conversion - did the calculation for me (I didn't ask for the math sorry). The figure for the Taboo II is slightly over 2W into 50 ohms. It sounds it too - as far as one can judge this without measuring - when I compare it to other amps with various power ratings.
 
Steve Deckert did something that lowered the Taboo III's 8-ohm output to 4.6W from the 6W available with the II, and also noted more power is available at 8 than 4 ohms.
I speculated he may have altered the power transfer to favor higher Z loads such as the LCDs, but I'm not sure this is supported by comments Steve since made separately either to Eric or Frank.
 
Quote:

 
Power out put should be about 736mW into 50Ω.  Here's the equation:
 
P = V^2/R

 

[Argo Duck]

Just adding my 2c (or less!) to comment so far...
 
The Decware site describes the CSP2+ as suited to dynamic phones in general, whereas the Taboo is - even more so now - meant for current-hungry phones such as orthos.
 
That said, way back in Frank's review of the original hp-enabled Taboo, at least one head-fier (Fang) preferred the Beyer T1 with the Taboo rather than the CSP2. Moreover, it appears Frank considers the HD800 a seriously good match with the review Taboo. So much so, he has sold his CSP2. I'm intrigued!
 
To add a small piece of personal experience, I've been surprised how good both my T1 and Grado RS1 sound with the Taboo. I still prefer the CSP2, but definitely miss what lucid mode does for both these phones.
And to be clear, I've never heard the HD800.
 
 
BeAsT, as well I think you asked in effect about having everything plugged in at the same time? I've had no problem with the T1s plugged to the CSP2+, the latter driving at the same time my Taboo (one and only one of LCD2 or speakers, as I have a speaker/hp switch) and a sub.
 
Does the CSP2+ add to the Taboo? With speakers, definitely - more weight and body. With headphones reports differ. I personally prefer my Taboo/LCD2 without the CSP2, but believe I'm in the minority.
 
Bear in mind previous Taboos had low sensitivity/gain. A preamp was recommended to boost input to around 3-4V.
Steve has 'fixed' this with the latest Taboo by raising the gain, making it a direct fit with most (2V or more) DACs.
 
Yet again, I have little doubt the CSP2 is a particularly good match with the Taboo (all Decware power amps?), even perhaps the new one. I casually tried several preamps with my Taboo II before I got the CSP2+. None - including the very transparent and detailed tube pre I use in my main speaker rig -  was a good match.
 
Finally, you asked about problems with tube combinations if you use the CSP2 and Taboo/Mini together. Absolutely there is a down-stream effect of tube-choices in the preamp. Listening to my CSP2 when I first got it with stock tubes and the T1 was a revelation, but these tubes spoilt a very nice level of transparency and immediacy I had achieved with the Taboo. Limited tube-rolling fixed this to a large degree, but made me less happy with the T1. That's tube-rolling!
 
These comments refer to impact on sound. Electrically, there is nothing to worry about assuming normal practice (volume down on both units at switch on etc).

 

[Frank I]

Quote:

    Hey guys, I have really been enjoying reading over these Decware threads on Head-Fi. Seems like a really great company, I really like what I see from them. I am currently trying to plan out my next few purchases, looking for some advice/opinions.
 
    I eventually want to end up with a 2 headphone system (already have LCD-2.2) and a pair of monitors. I live in a small space, so I am looking for a single amp to meet all my needs. Currently looking at the Taboo MKIII and the Mini TORII as possible candidates.
 
    I really want to add the HE-6 to the mix if the mini TORII can power it to its full potential. Would it be tough to get a good tube combo with the TORII for both the LCD-2 and HE-6?
 
    If I went with the Taboo route, maybe pairing the HD800 with my LCD-2? Again, will the tube combinations be problematic? 
 
    I would also consider adding a pre-amp a little further down the road. Is it possible to use the CSP2+ headphone jack, while it is being used as a preamp? I have heard many people mention that to be a great combo with the Sennheiser HD800s. But would it be possible to get the tubes right for both the LCD2s (running off the Taboo) and the HD800s (running off the CSP2+)?  
 
    I will building my setup slowly over the next 3 years or so, one piece at a time. Upgrading my DAC also, early on in the process. Thanks for reading, any advice/help appreciated, thanks.    

I just got home so let me read through the 22 post and I ail answer all the questions.

 

[Frank I]

Quote:

Does anyone know how many watts are put out at 50 ohms?
 
I know the website says 4.6 watts at 8 ohms x2.

Steve told me the MK 111 is putting  1W into50 ohms

 

[Frank I]

Quote:

 
Hopefully Frank will chime in on this but that my recollection from his comments.  He has owned all 3 units so he would know best.

The CSP2 will work as a preamp and you can still use the headphone jack while it is doing that. The CSP2 is excellent with the T1 and HD800on it own. It  all SET while the Taboo is a pentode amplifier. The which will be better will be subjective. I loved the CSP2 as a preamp driving the Taboo. When I had the two piece unit the first time I used the T1 and the hD800 on both sides. The CSP2 is more airy and had a different open sound while the Taboo is more authoritative with the HD800 on its own. Both are excellent. The CSP2 adds more dynamic to the mix but I also like the Taboo on its own as well. If you plan on  using speakers as well you would want to use both the CSp2 and the Taboo together.  I will start writing the review middle of next week and have it done by 4/15 or sooner and that will answer quite a few more questions as well. 

 

[Frank I]

Quote:

Yea, I definately want to hear from Frank. Thanks everybody for the replies so far.

If I used the CSP2+ headphone jack for the HD800, while using the Taboo for the LCD-2 and speakers, would the tube combinations be problematic? Is it even possible/safe to do this? I am not familiar with stand alone pre-amps.

Tube compliments are very easy. The csp2 uses three 6922 types and the same rectifier as the Taboo. You can use the same type tube or different tubes and mix and match to get the sound you prefer best. The stock tubes will sound excellent in the preamp and the Taboo also. My review will deal with how the Taboo MK111 sounds with the stock tube and also with some EL84  instead of the SV83 which is an excellent tube and Steve Deckert preferred power tube for the Taboo MK111. The great thing about decware amps all of these tubes are readily available and also most are current production tubes as well.  When I had the combo with the MK111 and csp2 I used the same rectifiers and 6922  used in the csp2 were all the same but you can use two 6922 in the power section of the csp2 and put a different one in the driver section and there are endless combinations. Most important is to find a sound you like beast and live with it for  some time to get to know the tube your hearing before swapping and I usually find my favorite combos and leave it in for months before I swap them out again.

 

[Landmantx]

AiDee, I wish I had that switch. I guess I will just have to unplag my imaginary speakers when I plug in my imaginary headphones.