[550591]

Do you guys as closed back fans, feel that in general open back TOTL headphones cost more than TOTL closed back headphones?

Why is this the case you think?

Dan Clark stealth and expanse cost the same.

 

[Alien HP]

Do you guys as closed back fans, feel that in general open back TOTL headphones cost more than TOTL closed back headphones?

Why is this the case you think?

I don't think it's the case.

 

[AudioDuck]

Do you guys as closed back fans, feel that in general open back TOTL headphones cost more than TOTL closed back headphones?

Why is this the case you think?

I think this depends on the brand of preference. ZMF’s long-time references, the Verités, cost about the same for open vs. closed.

What seems to happen for most companies is that they develop TOTL models initially as open-backs (perhaps because it is easier to achieve sound signature goals without the reflections of a closed chamber?), thus you see price escalations in the open-back category first.

 

[GREQ]

I think historically speaking closed-back flagships have sometimes even helped push rising prices in some instances.
Sony MDR-R10
JVC-HA-DX1000
Sony MDR-Z1R
Sennheiser HD820

 

[plakat]

I think besides technical problems, which may make TOTL closed backs harder to make and therefore a more rare species, there are simply more open back high end cans — a good part of the potential audience/buyers seem to prefer open back, are willing to pay extra and companies are willing to take the money. There seems to be much less pressure for TOTL closed backs… in low and mid territory Thisbe reversed, closed back offerings dominate those categories it seems.

To me only closed back makes any sense. Yes, I do like the experience of headphone listening per se, but especially in circumstances that would not allow other means of music consumption such as on the go (be it while walking or on a train/plain) or at home in the night or in the office: open back would just not cut it. Therefore I’m not too happy that so few companies are willing (able?) to tackle the hard problems associated with this… but on the other hand I’m not willing to go the route of inflated prices either. So yes, I also share the feeling that there are less closed than open TOTL models available, but I’m OK with that.

That being said I did order my first midrange headphone in a long time, the B&W Px8 (yes, it had to be the 007 edition). Other that than I’m very happy with my collection of M-100, which I still love and use every day. They just give me so much fun that I’m already unsure what to do with the Px8…

 

[SomeGuyDude]

I think the main reason that open back headphones are always the flagships is that an open back headphone is where the company doesn't have to make ANY compromises. They truly can design a product that conveys the experience of speaker listening, just on your head.

Closed-backs are the purview of convenience or situations where concessions are being made. Besides, the idea of wearing a 4-digit priced headphone on a subway or while walking around town seems a little crazy to me. By and large, if someone wants to drop a few thousand dollars on headphones, they're listening at home and probably in a situation where external noise isn't an issue because let's keep it 100 right now, even if you're wearing a closed-back, if there's any noise in the room it's going to start to negate the technical benefits of such an expensive piece of kit.

What always baffled me is how the on-ear headphone is basically the person child of the headphone world. You can find summit-fi products in open and closed back full size and loads of IEMs, but Grado seems like the only company that does on-ears.

 

[KaiFi]

I don't like on-ears; I find them uncomfortable. They smash my ears.

I do agree that closed-back is an inherent "compromise". It takes more engineering to get around the negative effects on sound of closing off the back of the headphone cup. Unfortunately for me, the "compromise" of open-back, i.e. letting in external noise, is one that mostly prevents me from using open-back (I simply don't have a quiet studio to listen to music in). It's frustrating as a closed-back fan that there are so many open-back options (at good prices too), yet closed-back equivalents are often few and far between and far more expensive.

 

[SomeGuyDude]

I also have a sneaking suspicion that, by and large, flagship level closed-backs don't sell as well because I would wager the majority of consumers who are dropping that kind of money are the kind of people who have relatively quiet listening spaces. So it costs them a lot more money to engineer a product that probably won't end up selling as well.

Speaking personally, my hunt through the closed-back world is mostly for more mid-fi fare because, at least in my mind, situations where I need to use a closed-back are situations where I'm not going to be able to truly appreciate the kind of technical wizardry of flagship products anyway. Like during the summer if I have an air conditioner running, I certainly want a closed-back, but even then I'm still dealing with an air conditioner so that's going to muffle a bit of the detail and intricacies regardless. I just want something with the right frequency response and good dynamics.

 

[dougms3]

I don't like on-ears; I find them uncomfortable. They smash my ears.

I do agree that closed-back is an inherent "compromise". It takes more engineering to get around the negative effects on sound of closing off the back of the headphone cup. Unfortunately for me, the "compromise" of open-back, i.e. letting in external noise, is one that mostly prevents me from using open-back (I simply don't have a quiet studio to listen to music in). It's frustrating as a closed-back fan that there are so many open-back options (at good prices too), yet closed-back equivalents are often few and far between and far more expensive.

It doesn't necessarily have to be that one is better than the other. You always have the option of having both

I like to think of less as a compromise and more of an choice in flavor. I find that open backs can't really produce the same level of bass that closed backs can. Open backs are better at producing a more natural sound as if you were listening to speakers.

While I do find open backs to be really nice, I need to use closed back most of the time. And I prefer the isolation that the closed backs offer.

 

[Drysideshooter]

Closed back to me are very much a compromise. For my use, if I'm in a situation where I'm worried about ambient noise, or sound leakage bothering someone else, I go full on compromise and wear Sony XM4's. If I'm giving up soundstage anyway, I may as well enjoy the cord free experience and noise cancelling. I enjoy the XM4's, especially since I'm able to enjoy music as much as possible (how it feels to me anyway) in an environment where I would otherwise have to do without. It's a tradeoff, and I'd rather compromise than not listen to music. It's like a great pair of speakers in a room where you can't place them quite far enough from the walls and each other to get the sound you're looking for. It works, but is far from ideal. That's how I feel about closed back headphones in general.

 

[F208Frank]

Similar priced IEMs to closedbacks, which category generally has better bang for buck?

I myself took route of open back for home desktop use and IEMs for portable use. I always felt a little weird about wearing big ass headphones when walking around or something. I feel like its a bit inconvenient combined with stares of "bro those look huge"

I will have to say though attempting to scale even totl iems is such a frustrating experience for me because my baseline is always off a desktop set up open back rig.

Lol

 

[plakat]

Actually I like the more intimate experience with closed headphones (besides the often much better/more engaging bass response)... for music that would gain from open backs, I much prefer speakers... I love Jazz, but never listen to it on headphones. My wife can't stand EDM, so I rarely listen to that on speakers -- but it doesn't feel like a compromise, I like EDM on closed back headphones very much. And while it would sound wrong in mono, realistic space is very relative with this kind of music... so open backs have two disadvantages for me: less engaging bass and less privacy.

Overall I see at least two very different usage scenarios: one at home where open back headphones replace more expensive speakers due to cost, space or other considerations. The other on the go, where outside noise, portability and size are the main factors. Obviously closed back matches better here than open back.

The first category tends to get more money thrown at it, plus open backs are easier to voice to this scenario, i.e. replacing speakers in a room. The second scenario grows much more I'd say, and it shows: new additions like the Px8, the Mark Levison 5909 (I think), the Bathys and the APM cater to that segment. With prices (and, to a certain extent, quality) moving up.

 

[550591]

I couldn't imagine not using closed back headphones anymore. My Meze Liric are no TOTL 4k-5k headphones but they provide enough sound isolation That my wife can listen to her TV shows.
We have so much noise from our neighbors, the street most of the day, every day including Sundays and holidays that I could never actually use open back Headphones.

 

[F208Frank]

Very interesting to get these perspectives from closed back fans.

For me I always just thought OK well SQ matters most and since open backs are key word "generally" better I always just stuck with them.

I have demoed a few closed backs and I must say, I do prefer open backs but see the appeal of closed backs.

For me a closed back would be for travel, plane, type of use but when it comes down to that, I find myself finding IEMs way way WAY more convenient.

Sometimes though when my kid is in the next room I do wish I had a closed back, I just currebtly use my ooen backs at less volume haha.

 

[F208Frank]

Closed back to me are very much a compromise. For my use, if I'm in a situation where I'm worried about ambient noise, or sound leakage bothering someone else, I go full on compromise and wear Sony XM4's. If I'm giving up soundstage anyway, I may as well enjoy the cord free experience and noise cancelling. I enjoy the XM4's, especially since I'm able to enjoy music as much as possible (how it feels to me anyway) in an environment where I would otherwise have to do without. It's a tradeoff, and I'd rather compromise than not listen to music. It's like a great pair of speakers in a room where you can't place them quite far enough from the walls and each other to get the sound you're looking for. It works, but is far from ideal. That's how I feel about closed back headphones in general.

This was beautifull written. Thanks.